Why do modern day feminists dismiss or downplay these facts?

[Nice Squirrel]

The problem is not the rate of education, but the rate of pay.

If women are paid less then men, despite their education, that is a problem. Duh.

Separate issue. Are you saying boys falling behind in education is fine since those who do get an education get better pay? How does that help those who are failing high school or college?

Where do these charts say that boys are falling behind? I still have seen no evidence, no source data.

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That is completely separate from boys failing at much higher rates and not graduating from college in as high of numbers.

What numbers? I've seen no numbers. All I've seen are charts that tell me that more women are choosing to go to college, not that boys are failing. Please show me the hard numbers.

 

[Axulus]

Separate issue. Are you saying boys falling behind in education is fine since those who do get an education get better pay? How does that help those who are failing high school or college?

Where do these charts say that boys are falling behind? I still have seen no evidence, no source data.

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That is completely separate from boys failing at much higher rates and not graduating from college in as high of numbers.

What numbers? I've seen no numbers. All I've seen are charts that tell me that more women are choosing to go to college, not that boys are failing. Please show me the hard numbers.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/02/14/boys-fall-behind-girls-school

http://fortune.com/2013/03/27/boys-vs-girls-whats-behind-the-college-grad-gender-gap/

 

[untermensche]

Obviously women are more educated.

That is why we see a majority of CEO's being women and a majority of women in decision making positions in the government.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Where do these charts say that boys are falling behind? I still have seen no evidence, no source data.

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That is completely separate from boys failing at much higher rates and not graduating from college in as high of numbers.

What numbers? I've seen no numbers. All I've seen are charts that tell me that more women are choosing to go to college, not that boys are failing. Please show me the hard numbers.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/02/14/boys-fall-behind-girls-school

http://fortune.com/2013/03/27/boys-vs-girls-whats-behind-the-college-grad-gender-gap/

Okay, (1st link) boys in middle school and elementary school have more disciplinary problems and get lower grades -- not sure this is news, boys got in trouble and got lower grade when I was in school -- but I am wondering how elementary and middle school grades affect their college enrollment at this age and why feminists would dismiss any of this. Could you please explain why feminists are downplaying these facts?

I am not sure what you are trying to say with link (2) basically it says that dropping out of college is bad and boys should be exposed to more art and foreign language.

Are you just posting articles you Googled after I asked for evidence?

And what does this have to do with the feminists in the OP?

 

[laughing dog]

The burden of proof is on you. You don't get to accuse a whole movement of something with no evidence. I don't calm that modern right wingers hate women and just point to Derec.

I already gave two pieces of evidence - how about refuting them with something substantive?

You gave no evidence that modern day feminist downplay or dismiss the facts you posted.

 

[Axulus]

I already gave two pieces of evidence - how about refuting them with something substantive?

You gave no evidence that modern day feminist downplay or dismiss the facts you posted.

If saying "the patriarchy is Doing just fine" isn't Dismissive to those facts, I don't have a clue what your definition is of the word "dismissive"

 

[spikepipsqueak]

How is it a separate issue? If women are surpassing men in education but that's not translating into pay rates afterwards, that would seem to be the central issue.

Huh? Who said it's not translating into higher pay? He was discussing pay parity for equally educated individuals (which is something like 95% when you do apples to apples for men vs women.)

That is completely separate from boys failing at much higher rates and not graduating from college in as high of numbers.

We are moving away from a society where the interests of men were paramount and, slowly, towards a society where people are equal.

If your statistics were accurate (and those graphs are too "pretty" to be based on real data) it would still only be illustrative of the fact that educational policies are no longer geared towards the success of boys. New methods, geared towards redressing an imbalance, have uncovered educational needs that boys have which were never formally quantified because previously the whole system was aimed at serving their needs. Social change takes tweaking.

I would like to see your evidence that there is a feminist, anywhere, who advocates for reversing the past situation and making men second class citizens, or who would argue that it is just for women to be statistically over represented in any field.

I do think your OP is the frantic attempt to claw back a historical advantage.

 

[laughing dog]

You gave no evidence that modern day feminist downplay or dismiss the facts you posted.

If saying "the patriarchy is Doing just fine" isn't Dismissive to those facts, I don't have a clue what your definition is of the word "dismissive"

You posted some "facts" that you claimed feminists dismiss or downplayed without providing one citation or site to back up your claim. Now you are trotting out "the patriarchy is Doing just fine" as some sort rebuttal. You have not provided one reason why there is a necessary or even tenuous logical why ""patriarchy doing just fine" is either dismissing or downplaying those "facts".

The OP more closely resembles a misogynistic burp than a reasoned position.

 

[barbos]

We have had that discussion a million times.
These graphs make it look as if less and less men go for higher education.
In reality roughly the same amount of men go to college.
It's women's rate became much higher. And it got higher because we are in process of blowing a bubble in education, by inventing stupid and ridiculous degrees and fields to attract more and more people to pay money for really worthless education.
Having said that, point is still good, why are feminists worried about CEOs and ignoring the fact that prison population is mostly men?
We need more women in prisons !

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You gave no evidence that modern day feminist downplay or dismiss the facts you posted.

If saying "the patriarchy is Doing just fine" isn't Dismissive to those facts, I don't have a clue what your definition is of the word "dismissive"

Huh? That's a pretty broad brush. I suppose you could throw high blood pressure, prostate cancer, blue balls and shark attacks under the umbrella of "the patriarchy is Doing just fine".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, they complain about discrimination.

There is discrimination.

Yeah--against males. Look at the numbers, women are getting degrees in excess of their share of the population. The pendulum has already swung past the midpoint!

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Separate issue. Are you saying boys falling behind in education is fine since those who do get an education get better pay? How does that help those who are failing high school or college?

How is it a separate issue? If women are surpassing men in education but that's not translating into pay rates afterwards, that would seem to be the central issue.

It does translate into pay afterwards.

Young, single, college-educated women are outearning their male peers.

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Biology and the maternal instinct always seem to go overlooked in these discussions. A lot of those educated women choose not to use the degrees they get.

It isnt all unfair hiring or sexist society pushing women away from high paying jobs.

And those who do use those degrees often don't work as long hours as their male counterparts once they have children.

 

[Frikki]

There is discrimination.

Yeah--against males. Look at the numbers, women are getting degrees in excess of their share of the population. The pendulum has already swung past the midpoint!

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Separate issue. Are you saying boys falling behind in education is fine since those who do get an education get better pay? How does that help those who are failing high school or college?

How is it a separate issue? If women are surpassing men in education but that's not translating into pay rates afterwards, that would seem to be the central issue.

It does translate into pay afterwards.

Young, single, college-educated women are outearning their male peers.

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Biology and the maternal instinct always seem to go overlooked in these discussions. A lot of those educated women choose not to use the degrees they get.

It isnt all unfair hiring or sexist society pushing women away from high paying jobs.

And those who do use those degrees often don't work as long hours as their male counterparts once they have children.

I don't usually try to argue at you Loren since it is like trowing water at a duck. One reason why women might be overepresented in college is the number of women that GO for nursing or teaching, two huge fields that skew the statistics.

 

[doubtingt]

How is it a separate issue? If women are surpassing men in education but that's not translating into pay rates afterwards, that would seem to be the central issue.

It does translate into pay afterwards.

Young, single, college-educated women are outearning their male peers.

FALSE. I assume this is another attempt by you to misrepresent this story that conservatives dishonesty touted as evidence against anti-female gender bias, with headlines like "Young Women's Pay Exceeds Male Peers"

But the data only shows that if you ignore education, then young, single, childless females in many major cities make more than same age males in those cities. But these males are not their "peers", because they have less education.
The greater pay for young women in those cities is due to them being more likely to have a college degree than same age males. And this only holds in major cities where male dominated high paying blue collar jobs have been lost. In rural areas, young women still make less than young men, despite having more education. And young single females everywhere, including major cities earn less than same age males with the same level of education, experience, and hours worked in most professions.

IOW, women go to college and have the motivation to graduate more than men, because they need to try and make up for their lower pay due to their gender. Having more education than a man if about the only way they can avoid earning less. Then there is the fact that some males do not attend college because their father or a friend of their father offers them a good paying job out of high school. Such opportunities are offered far less to daughters, even when clearly more competent and mature than their brothers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have had that discussion a million times.
These graphs make it look as if less and less men go for higher education.
In reality roughly the same amount of men go to college.
It's women's rate became much higher. And it got higher because we are in process of blowing a bubble in education, by inventing stupid and ridiculous degrees and fields to attract more and more people to pay money for really worthless education.

Really stupid degrees most likely can't be the cause because schools couldn't support such a thing. At my college, there was a "peace studies" major that had a small handle of people majoring in it. Of course, the big bloat was actually in the School of Business where many were getting their rather valueless degree.

 

[barbos]

Obviously women are more educated.

That is why we see a majority of CEO's being women and a majority of women in decision making positions in the government.

Since when CEOing requires education?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Why do modern day feminists dismiss or downplay these facts?

Boys commit suicide at 4 times the rate girls do..

It might be revealing to ask why do modern day anti-feminists screw around with numbers and call them facts?

As i recall from my days on the suicide hotline, women (and girls) tend to use pills, slit wrists, suffocation... Time consuming methods that allow intervention, or allow one to change their mind.

Men (and boys) tend to use more instantaneous methods. Driving into an overpass support at 90mph, gun to the head, gun in the mouth. Time critical methods that don't allow for intervention or changing one's mind.

When you look at ALL the numbers, four times as many women as men ATTEMPT suicide. But due to the average methods utilized, four times as many men as women actually achieve suicide.
So for every 4 male deaths by suicide, there's going to be about 20 female attempts, 1 of which will be successful.

I'm not sure how this impacts feminism in any way. But if you're throwing numbers aound, get them all.

 

[Sarpedon]

Frankly, I don't see the relevance of this.

I don't see why we can make our psychological problems some sort of lame excuse for paying women less.

It reminds me of every time we had a white guy kill a black guy for no reason, the other white guys would yell 'but what about black on black crime?'

This problem seems to be quite simple, and attempts to complicate it are attempts to excuse it.

 

[prideandfall]

Why do modern day feminists dismiss or downplay these facts?

It might be revealing to ask why do modern day anti-feminists screw around with numbers and call them facts?

As i recall from my days on the suicide hotline, women (and girls) tend to use pills, slit wrists, suffocation... Time consuming methods that allow intervention, or allow one to change their mind.

Men (and boys) tend to use more instantaneous methods. Driving into an overpass support at 90mph, gun to the head, gun in the mouth. Time critical methods that don't allow for intervention or changing one's mind.

When you look at ALL the numbers, four times as many women as men ATTEMPT suicide. But due to the average methods utilized, four times as many men as women actually achieve suicide.
So for every 4 male deaths by suicide, there's going to be about 20 female attempts, 1 of which will be successful.

I'm not sure how this impacts feminism in any way. But if you're throwing numbers aound, get them all.

see and this just comes right back to the CEO thing - as women are clearly indecisive and unwilling to commit to a course of action, and require actions on the part of others for validation. hence, this is why only men can be CEOs.
or something?

 

[Keith&Co.]

see and this just comes right back to the CEO thing - as women are clearly indecisive and unwilling to commit to a course of action, and require actions on the part of others for validation. hence, this is why only men can be CEOs.
or something?

Yeah, something like that.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Most of the stats in the OP have nothing to do with equal pay for equal work. All of the stats in the OP can be true and you can still have a sexist problem keeping women from making as much money as men given the same jobs and you can still have CEO positions favouring men over women.

What the OP does hint at is that feminists are advocates for women, instead of egalitarians who care about fair treatment to both genders, but isn't that a given from the mere name "Feminism"? It is advocacy for a particular group of people.