Why do the Afghani's like the Taliban so much?

[DrZoidberg]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban. Before the US led invasion the Taliban had only been in power 6 years. The post Taliban regime was in power for 20 years. Plenty of time to establish themselves. More time than the Taliban had had.

But I don't get, why? What are the Taliban doing that makes them so popular? Half the country is women. I find it hard to believe they prefer the Taliban regime. Based on the news we get from there the image of the Taliban couldn't possibly be worse. They economy is in shambles and they're facing starvation. Yet, their government seems to be getting on great, and has popular support.

I don't buy the religious fantaticism angle. Both Hamid Karzai and Ashraf Ghani were devout Muslims. Their entire cabinet consisted only of Muslims. It was just as much a Muslim government as the Taliban was.

The best theory I have heard is that the Afghanis are intensily patriotic. Both Karzai and Ghani were seen as puppet-rulers of a foreign occupier. So their regimes had no chance. It hadn't mattered what they'd done. They were tainted in advance. That would make it similar to the South Vietnamese regime, toppled by North Vietnam. But just because a theory makes logical sense, it doesn't mean it's actually true. Does anyone here know?

 

[Patooka]

You need to replace "Afghan" with "Pashtun" and there's your answer.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You need to replace "Afghan" with "Pashtun" and there's your answer.

Yes, I'm aware that the ethnic conflicts in Afghanistan is a factor. I just don't know anything about it. I'd be very grateful if you would expand on that?

 

[barbos]

Speed of the fall was not astonishing. People knew it would fall, so why even try to save it?
What would be the point? US spent 20 years and there is literally nothing to remember them for.
At the same time people still remember soviets, and they remember them doing good.

 

[Patooka]

You need to replace "Afghan" with "Pashtun" and there's your answer.

Yes, I'm aware that the ethnic conflicts in Afghanistan is a factor. I just don't know anything about it. I'd be very grateful if you would expand on that?

Pashtun are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan. 42%. The Taliban weren't viewed as a legitimate government either post 9/11 or when the Soviets invaded back in the 80s. And the Northern Alliance had a lot of similarities to the Taliban. I remember and recommend reading Eric Campbell's memoirs titled "Absurdistan". He was a journalist who was part of the initial post 9/11 invasion and saw a lot of "Meet your new boss, same as the old boss" along with a lot of instances of being mistaken as Russian. But Pashtuns were always looked over for even local government roles during this period.

So when you add all that up, it's not surprising when 2/5ths of a country are told they have no real representation in the new government, shitty nationalism starts to creep in (or shitty tribalism but you know what I mean).

The second main cause was something you pointed out, but kinda glossed over. The occupation in Afghanistan was for over 2 decades, but the effort over that 20 years ebbed and flowed. If a legitimate effort had been made to empower women in Afghanistan, the Taliban would never had come back into power. "The news we get" was not the news the locals ever received because the effort wasn't made. By the back end of 2002, Bush Jnr had nearly a third of Americans believe Saddam was behind 9/11 and Republicans were bored with Afghanistan. That scenario you hinted at - where rebuilding the schools and allowing women to have equal rights never really came about in the Bush era. By the time Obama took over the damage was done - for 6 years the coalition forces looked exactly like the Soviets to anyone outside of Kabul. Also, Obama was fighting an uphill battle at home with regards to Afghanistan. Teaching feminism and enabling feminism shows that the Democrats are being woke with the military yet again.



So if you want a summary, the things that...I wouldn't say caused Afghans to like the Taliban but at least certainly preferred them was that their leadership was taken away from Pashtuns without their consent, what was replaced was effectively the same but imposed from other ethnic groups and no real effort was made to empower women from the occupying coalition of forces.

 

[laughing dog]

The other thing to remember is there is a long history in that part of Asia of "the West" messing things up for some time. Both the British and Russian "empires" clashed in that region in the 19th century. That part of Asia has a long and distinct culture from "the West".

 

[Gospel]

Ok hood version of the story.

Hamid & Ashraf were the Trump equivalent of the Afghanistan leadership in so far as appointing friends and family to key positions.

The community started distrusting the government and the Iranian Pashtuns Gangs moved in to exploit the weakness.

Amidst all that fighting, there began growing suspicions that rival gangs from neighboring hoods were playing all sides of the conflict.

That's when the Taliban gang showed up outs of nowhere and kicked everyone's ass.

The community did not like them, in fact all the biotches hated them, but there was no more fighting in the streets so folks weren't inclined to resist. Kan mean? It was considerably more safe to move about the hood.

Anyhow they also had that religious street cred that we've all been accustomed to accept so it's all good.

 

[Tigers!]

I often wonder what would have happened if the former King, Mohammad Zahir Shah, had been allowed to act as a counter-weight to the Taliban and Northern Alliance and other groups. The Loya Jirga in June 2002 had that opportunity to enthrone the king but the foolish US wanted Karazi for reasons mentioned earlier as leader.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The community did not like them, in fact all the biotches hated them, but there was no more fighting in the streets so folks weren't inclined to resist. Kan mean? It was considerably more safe to move about the hood.

I confess my ignorance wrt who is popular in Afghanistan and why. But without democratic freedoms isn't it strange to assert that one gang is more popular than another gang? I can certainly see how one could be but it isn't like the population really has a choice.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause. Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Speed of the fall was not astonishing. People knew it would fall, so why even try to save it?
What would be the point? US spent 20 years and there is literally nothing to remember them for.
At the same time people still remember soviets, and they remember them doing good.

I don't think the Afghani's have many fond memories of the Soviets. After 1926 up to the communist uprising and Soviet invasion, Afghanistan was stable, peaceful and prosperous. The Soviets did what the Soviets are famous for, wrecked the economy. Ever since that time Afghanistan has been in an endless war. Why would the Afghanis look favouribly on that time? Are you reading too much Russian propaganda again?

 

[Patooka]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause. Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

There's a region in Pakistan called the Khyber Pass. It is without a doubt the largest black market weapons manufacturer in the world (there is plenty of anecdotal testimonies that suggest this wiki page is understating the matter somewhat). It's also Pashtun and very sympathetic towards the Taliban. Not even the Karzai government received such logistical support from Coalition forces.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause. Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

There's a region in Pakistan called the Khyber Pass. It is without a doubt the largest black market weapons manufacturer in the world (there is plenty of anecdotal testimonies that suggest this wiki page is understating the matter somewhat). It's also Pashtun and very sympathetic towards the Taliban. Not even the Karzai government received such logistical support from Coalition forces.

Ok. Why? Why are the Pashtun sympathetic towards the Taliban? Why does the Pashtun think the Taliban are preferable to a modern liberal democracy with free expression and that whole deal? People aren't self destructive. They act on incitaments. What are the incitaments?

The government the Taliban replaced was just as Islamic as they are. So we can't blame this on Islam.

 

[Patooka]

Ok. Why? Why are the Pashtun sympathetic towards the Taliban?

The exact same reason the IRA was sympathetic towards Catholics I'd imagine. You're not going to find causation in this. You could ask 3 Pashtun Elders why and the only thing they'd agree upon is that the other two are wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause.

So blacks welcomed Jim Crow in the South and allowed Reconstrudtion to end.

Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

They had support from third parties.

At worst the average rural Afghan would have been agnostic on government. We saw what the mobs of people desperate to flee in the city thought of Taliban rule at the airport.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause.

So blacks welcomed Jim Crow in the South and allowed Reconstrudtion to end.

What?

Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

They had support from third parties.

At worst the average rural Afghan would have been agnostic on government. We saw what the mobs of people desperate to flee in the city thought of Taliban rule at the airport.

Who gave the Taliban guns? What's the geopolitics at play here?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Ok. Why? Why are the Pashtun sympathetic towards the Taliban?

The exact same reason the IRA was sympathetic towards Catholics I'd imagine. You're not going to find causation in this. You could ask 3 Pashtun Elders why and the only thing they'd agree upon is that the other two are wrong.

The IRA are sympathetic towards the Catholics for good reasons. It's got to do with money. I'm guessing you didn't know this. So I'm assuming as well that you don't really know why the Pashtun's are sympathetic with the Taliban.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause.

So blacks welcomed Jim Crow in the South and allowed Reconstrudtion to end.

What?

Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

They had support from third parties.

At worst the average rural Afghan would have been agnostic on government. We saw what the mobs of people desperate to flee in the city thought of Taliban rule at the airport.

Who gave the Taliban guns? What's the geopolitics at play here?

Russia, Pakistan, Iran?? They also have guns already and could have stolen some from various occupation forces over the decades.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I get the basics. Hamid Karzai and then Ashraf Ghani ran a shit show of a corrupt government, who only managed to stay in power becasue they were held under the arms with American money. Without the spigot of free cash, it fell apart with astonishing speed.

The Taliban couldn't possibly have seized power any faster. So clearly the Afghan people really really preferred the Taliban.

Or resistance was futile. The people with the guns seized power back, they weren't given it. We saw the people desperate to leave on the airfields.

Yes. But that's describing the symptom. Not the cause.

So blacks welcomed Jim Crow in the South and allowed Reconstrudtion to end.

What?

Try answering why did the Taliban have the biggest guns?

They had support from third parties.

At worst the average rural Afghan would have been agnostic on government. We saw what the mobs of people desperate to flee in the city thought of Taliban rule at the airport.

Who gave the Taliban guns? What's the geopolitics at play here?

Russia, Pakistan, Iran?? They also have guns already and could have stolen some from various occupation forces over the decades.

Ok. Did they?