Why is there so little talk about Trump and global warming

[iolo]

Fair enough but I find laughing dog's attempt at poisoning the well a bit tiring.
Trump is looking more and more dangerous each week now, and I always said I only preferred what he said about his foreign policy to what we knew of Clinton.
If I lived in America I'd probably be as concerned as most people here are.

I've never understood how electing a narcissist, disagreeable, bully who sincerely believes in conspiracies could possibly be better in foreign policy.

Someone who knew how to read an atlas might know where countries were to bomb. Trump will be building his wall around California.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Fair enough but I find laughing dog's attempt at poisoning the well a bit tiring.
Trump is looking more and more dangerous each week now, and I always said I only preferred what he said about his foreign policy to what we knew of Clinton.
If I lived in America I'd probably be as concerned as most people here are.

I've never understood how electing a narcissist, disagreeable, bully who sincerely believes in conspiracies could possibly be better in foreign policy.

Well, these are the things people say when they are full of crap.

 

[ronburgundy]

What you believe is irrelevant.

http://www.businessinsider.com/clinton-trump-environment-policies-plans-climate-change-platforms-2016-9

"When it comes to climate change, the science is crystal clear," Clinton said on ScienceDebate. "That’s why as President, I will work both domestically and internationally to ensure that we build on recent progress and continue to slash greenhouse gas pollution over the coming years as the science clearly tells us we must."

You also seem to have missed the Presidential debates, this quote is from the first one:

Donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese. I think it's real.

Climate change was also a focus in the platform put forth at the Dem Convention. Clinton mentioned it in her acceptance speech, she talked about it multiple times on the campaign trail, clearly stated she supported would build upon Obama's "Clean Power Plan", and the Paris Agreement, and had published many statements and aspects of her energy policy that was centered on dealing with climate change in a politically and economically viable way on her campaign website about reducing fossil fuels and supporting green energy.

The fact that Climate change only got discussed for about 6 minutes across all the Clinton-Trump debates had more to do with the moderators and question askers. Because Trump was constantly saying so many absurd things in his speeches and tweets, most of the debates became about that. Clinton responded to Ken Borne's Climate change question with about as much depth as the 2 minutes would allow but America didn't give a crap about her answer because they were too obsessed with Borne's sweater and 70's porn stache.

The reality is that climate change is not near the top concerns of most voters, including likely Dem voters. So, its not going to get front and center attention by any candidate seriously trying to win an election. Gore had the luxury of making it front and center in 2000 because there were NOT other far more pressing concerns in the minds of most voters. Things were rather rosy at the time (compared to now). The economy was booming, terrorism and the Middle East were irrelevant abstractions to most Americans, and race, immigration, policing, and gender issues were not nearly the constant source of political rage they have been for the last few years.

 

[laughing dog]

After dissing Clinton and chatting Trump up during the campaign, all of a sudden, you've woken up?

I repeatedly said Trump was awful. I repeatedly said Bernie would have been my choice out of possible candidates. As a non American I said I preferred what Trump said about foreign policy to what we knew of Hillary Clinton. Though Americans like you who worship Hillary Clinton seem so incensed that I would dare criticise Hillary that they repeatedly make the accusation you did.
It's interesting for a non American to observe, the way you people do this. We can see it still at play, Democrats are still confused bewildered and angry, yet there has been pretty much no reflection on why Hillary actually lost. And no, it wasn't the Russians.

HRC was better on climate change than Trump - that is a fact. Once Sanders was out of the race, you dissed HRC and chatted up Trump - those are the facts. Now you whine about Trump and the environment.

Your actions and views are probably analogous to many people in the US who ended up voting for Trump but now are waking up to the fact of the consequences of their actions and views. One can only up that these people learn enough by the next election to avoid repeating their moronic mistakes.

 

[Elixir]

I repeatedly said Trump was awful. I repeatedly said Bernie would have been my choice out of possible candidates. As a non American I said I preferred what Trump said about foreign policy to what we knew of Hillary Clinton. Though Americans like you who worship Hillary Clinton seem so incensed that I would dare criticise Hillary that they repeatedly make the accusation you did.
It's interesting for a non American to observe, the way you people do this. We can see it still at play, Democrats are still confused bewildered and angry, yet there has been pretty much no reflection on why Hillary actually lost. And no, it wasn't the Russians.

HRC was better on climate change than Trump - that is a fact. Once Sanders was out of the race, you dissed HRC and chatted up Trump - those are the facts. Now you whine about Trump and the environment.

Your actions and views are probably analogous to many people in the US who ended up voting for Trump but now are waking up to the fact of the consequences of their actions and views. One can only up that these people learn enough by the next election to avoid repeating their moronic mistakes.

I don't think there's as much buyers remorse as a reasoning person would expect. Y'know that Monty Hall problem? Most people stick with their original choice, despite it being demonstrably the wrong thing to do.

Under the standard assumptions, contestants who switch have a 2/3 chance of winning the car, while contestants who stick to their initial choice have only a 1/3 chance.

 

[blastula]

White House proposes steep budget cut to leading climate science agency - The Washington Post

 

[ronburgundy]

Your actions and views are probably analogous to many people in the US who ended up voting for Trump but now are waking up to the fact of the consequences of their actions and views. One can only up that these people learn enough by the next election to avoid repeating their moronic mistakes.

This is also true of the many leftists who didn't vote for Hillary or Trump, due to their moronic false equivalency between them on the Environment or any other issue those people pretend to care about. That likely includes a sizable % of the people who've been active in the many protest since he won, and many in the BLM movement who explicitly discouraged people from voting (and even made t-shirts about it). We don't need the morons who voted for Trump to realize their error. There are far more morons on the left who made a decision against their own interests, out of spite.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Your actions and views are probably analogous to many people in the US who ended up voting for Trump but now are waking up to the fact of the consequences of their actions and views. One can only up that these people learn enough by the next election to avoid repeating their moronic mistakes.

This is also true of the many leftists who didn't vote for Hillary or Trump, due to their moronic false equivalency between them on the Environment or any other issue those people pretend to care about. That likely includes a sizable % of the people who've been active in the many protest since he won, and many in the BLM movement who explicitly discouraged people from voting (and even made t-shirts about it). We don't need the morons who voted for Trump to realize their error. There are far more morons on the left who made a decision against their own interests, out of spite.

Huh?

Idiots who supported Trump >> Idiots that didn't vote for Clinton because of this or that

Perhaps...

Idiots that voted for Sanders that ended up voting for Trump ~ Idiots that didn't vote for Clinton because of this or that

 

[laughing dog]

Your actions and views are probably analogous to many people in the US who ended up voting for Trump but now are waking up to the fact of the consequences of their actions and views. One can only up that these people learn enough by the next election to avoid repeating their moronic mistakes.

This is also true of the many leftists who didn't vote for Hillary or Trump, due to their moronic false equivalency between them on the Environment or any other issue those people pretend to care about. That likely includes a sizable % of the people who've been active in the many protest since he won, and many in the BLM movement who explicitly discouraged people from voting (and even made t-shirts about it). We don't need the morons who voted for Trump to realize their error. There are far more morons on the left who made a decision against their own interests, out of spite.

My comment did not distinguish between Trump supporters and anti-Clinton people. Perhaps this is yet another example of the triumph of optimism over experience, but I would expect the anti-Clinton people to be more likely to learn enough to avoid repeating the same moronic mistake only because I suspect that the vast majority of Trump voters do not care such issues as climate change.

 

[J842P]

Your actions and views are probably analogous to many people in the US who ended up voting for Trump but now are waking up to the fact of the consequences of their actions and views. One can only up that these people learn enough by the next election to avoid repeating their moronic mistakes.

This is also true of the many leftists who didn't vote for Hillary or Trump, due to their moronic false equivalency between them on the Environment or any other issue those people pretend to care about. That likely includes a sizable % of the people who've been active in the many protest since he won, and many in the BLM movement who explicitly discouraged people from voting (and even made t-shirts about it). We don't need the morons who voted for Trump to realize their error. There are far more morons on the left who made a decision against their own interests, out of spite.

But Clinton won liberal areas.

And if you look at the states that made a difference, the so-called Blue Wall, well, it crumbled. Sure, you can blame a handful of leftists who are members of demographics that mostly don't vote anyway, and are mostly concentrated in districts that are solidly blue and went blue last cycle, but really, you should be blaming the Democrats for systematically handing over the core of the party - the labor voters of the Rustbelt, over to Trump.

Or if you are going to blame anyone, you can blame the majority of people who didn't' bother to vote at all due to apathy, who probably would have voted for Clinton over Trump by enough of a margin to make a difference.

 

[Elixir]

... if you are going to blame anyone, you can blame the majority of people who didn't' bother to vote at all due to apathy, who probably would have voted for Clinton over Trump by enough of a margin to make a difference.

Right on. Clinton got ~66m, Trumnp ~63m
Meanwhile - eligible voters who didn't vote: ~71m - enough to elect almost anyone. I am hoping that the rabid enthusiasm that propelled Trump's yuuuuge victory is waning rather than increasing, and that a significant number the of people who didn't vote, are alarmed enough to get their asses off the couch in 2018. If neither house of congress turns in 2018, the Great Experiment is as good as dead.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is also true of the many leftists who didn't vote for Hillary or Trump, due to their moronic false equivalency between them on the Environment or any other issue those people pretend to care about. That likely includes a sizable % of the people who've been active in the many protest since he won, and many in the BLM movement who explicitly discouraged people from voting (and even made t-shirts about it). We don't need the morons who voted for Trump to realize their error. There are far more morons on the left who made a decision against their own interests, out of spite.

But Clinton won liberal areas.

And if you look at the states that made a difference, the so-called Blue Wall, well, it crumbled. Sure, you can blame a handful of leftists who are members of demographics that mostly don't vote anyway, and are mostly concentrated in districts that are solidly blue and went blue last cycle, but really, you should be blaming the Democrats for systematically handing over the core of the party - the labor voters of the Rustbelt, over to Trump.

Obama was blamed for coal jobs lost in the 80s. The Democrats haven't done much to lose support, the Republicans have done a great job blaming Democrats and convincing people to vote against their own interests.

Hell, ACA and Cap and Trade were Republican Party plans. But as soon as the Democrats moved forward with it... communism! And the people bought it.

 

[arkirk]

But Clinton won liberal areas.

And if you look at the states that made a difference, the so-called Blue Wall, well, it crumbled. Sure, you can blame a handful of leftists who are members of demographics that mostly don't vote anyway, and are mostly concentrated in districts that are solidly blue and went blue last cycle, but really, you should be blaming the Democrats for systematically handing over the core of the party - the labor voters of the Rustbelt, over to Trump.

Obama was blamed for coal jobs lost in the 80s. The Democrats haven't done much to lose support, the Republicans have done a great job blaming Democrats and convincing people to vote against their own interests.

Hell, ACA and Cap and Trade were Republican Party plans. But as soon as the Democrats moved forward with it... communism! And the people bought it.

The working people, the retired people, the unemployed, the immigrant (regardless of how he got here) and the environment itself have been under continuous attack by the Republicans and the oligarchs since the inception of the New Deal. Environmentalists with a social conscience have long been reviled by official America...(Congress, The Executive, and for some time now again, the Courts. Hard fought environmental laws and social programs are under serious attack by people who have nearly everything in their pockets already and are reaching for all the marbles in what they regard as a game. Their wars, above ground and underground have been regularly killing people in third world countries and now their inability to share or even to simply spare some of nature is causing them to abandon the environmental laws we have in favor of a kind of gamesman's Armageddon. I suspect that we are in danger of seeing our fellow Americans dying in large numbers for a variety of reasons as a result of a COMPLETE RIGHT WING TAKEOVER OF OUR GOVERNMENT. The newspeakers are out there touting chances for everybody and placing impossible price tags on everything and we are not given any real choice by our political system. I have never felt so ashamed of my country and its capacity to destroy itself. If I hadn't fought to protect our environment for a lot of years only to see it abused beyond recovery, if I hadn't already shed all the tears I had, I would be crying today. What's with us that we have degenerated into a society of liars, gaslighters, and insulters of everything in life? How did we get here? Is there any way out, or is it like the title of a John Paul Sartre play....NO EXIT.

 

[J842P]

But Clinton won liberal areas.

And if you look at the states that made a difference, the so-called Blue Wall, well, it crumbled. Sure, you can blame a handful of leftists who are members of demographics that mostly don't vote anyway, and are mostly concentrated in districts that are solidly blue and went blue last cycle, but really, you should be blaming the Democrats for systematically handing over the core of the party - the labor voters of the Rustbelt, over to Trump.

Obama was blamed for coal jobs lost in the 80s. The Democrats haven't done much to lose support, the Republicans have done a great job blaming Democrats and convincing people to vote against their own interests.

Hell, ACA and Cap and Trade were Republican Party plans. But as soon as the Democrats moved forward with it... communism! And the people bought it.

Nonsense. The Democrats have gone hard-right ever since the 90's and late 80's. Being a so-called "New Democrat" or "Third Way Democrat" was good politics. It was what made Bill Clinton so successful. However, the policies of the DLC and New Democrats are indistinguishable from the policies of the Republicans on the issues of Trade (and foreign wars). The trade policy of the last quarter century has very negatively impacted the working class. Voting for Bill Clinton or other DLC democrats is voting *against your interests* if your interests are labor.

True, the Republicans do the same thing, but the Democratic party also abandoned any *cultural* connection to the working class, which the republicans at least feign.

 

[J842P]

Obama was blamed for coal jobs lost in the 80s. The Democrats haven't done much to lose support, the Republicans have done a great job blaming Democrats and convincing people to vote against their own interests.

Hell, ACA and Cap and Trade were Republican Party plans. But as soon as the Democrats moved forward with it... communism! And the people bought it.

The working people, the retired people, the unemployed, the immigrant (regardless of how he got here) and the environment itself have been under continuous attack by the Republicans and the oligarchs since the inception of the New Deal. Environmentalists with a social conscience have long been reviled by official America...(Congress, The Executive, and for some time now again, the Courts. Hard fought environmental laws and social programs are under serious attack by people who have nearly everything in their pockets already and are reaching for all the marbles in what they regard as a game. Their wars, above ground and underground have been regularly killing people in third world countries and now their inability to share or even to simply spare some of nature is causing them to abandon the environmental laws we have in favor of a kind of gamesman's Armageddon. I suspect that we are in danger of seeing our fellow Americans dying in large numbers for a variety of reasons as a result of a COMPLETE RIGHT WING TAKEOVER OF OUR GOVERNMENT. The newspeakers are out there touting chances for everybody and placing impossible price tags on everything and we are not given any real choice by our political system. I have never felt so ashamed of my country and its capacity to destroy itself. If I hadn't fought to protect our environment for a lot of years only to see it abused beyond recovery, if I hadn't already shed all the tears I had, I would be crying today. What's with us that we have degenerated into a society of liars, gaslighters, and insulters of everything in life? How did we get here? Is there any way out, or is it like the title of a John Paul Sartre play....NO EXIT.

For what it's worth, arkirk, those of your generation that fought to protect the environment will be remembered. Especially considering the obstinacy your peers. Tragedies have their heroes, but they are still damn tragedies. Despite our differences on nuclear power, at least you gave a damn. It feels to me like most simply never really believed that their actions would have consequences -- a naive sort of myopia.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Obama was blamed for coal jobs lost in the 80s. The Democrats haven't done much to lose support, the Republicans have done a great job blaming Democrats and convincing people to vote against their own interests.

Hell, ACA and Cap and Trade were Republican Party plans. But as soon as the Democrats moved forward with it... communism! And the people bought it.

Nonsense. The Democrats have gone hard-right ever since the 90's and late 80's. Being a so-called "New Democrat" or "Third Way Democrat" was good politics. It was what made Bill Clinton so successful. However, the policies of the DLC and New Democrats are indistinguishable from the policies of the Republicans on the issues of Trade (and foreign wars). The trade policy of the last quarter century has very negatively impacted the working class. Voting for Bill Clinton or other DLC democrats is voting *against your interests* if your interests are labor.

True, the Republicans do the same thing, but the Democratic party also abandoned any *cultural* connection to the working class, which the republicans at least feign.

Nuts! The dems favor affordable health care and affordable college. They are pro larger safety net. They are pro economic development. They mostly favored higher minimum wage. The reps are the opposite.