Why not Male Lives Matter?

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Think of a polygamist compound. Most young males get the boot. The ruling power structure may save some that are very related and remind them of themselves.

 

[dismal]

Young male lives have always been expendable, because they don't have babies and seldom think deeply. They can therefore be used in armies or gangs to serve whatever evil bugger thinks it worth his while to fire 'em up.

I think his point is that should change.

 

[Rhea]

Where is the "male lives matter" movement to protest against this greater injustice?

My guess is that the outrage has not risen because in the aftermath of the police shootings of males, there is not a barrage of commentary that their maleness means they deserved it.

**IF** there was a consistent public commentary for every male killed about how they deserved it and therefore do not matter, I suspect the outrage would actually be equivalent.

But since there is not a consistent message for every male, it dilutes the outrage. Many males are killed and it is called a terrible tragedy, but unavoidable, and the victim's past is not torn to shreds and demeaned, conveying that his life does not matter. Most of these are not black.

Contrast to the consistent public commentary when the male is also black... the predictable and defamatory nature of it drives a desire to fix that problem.

In order for there to be a movement for a particular demographic, there has to be a series of consistent events common to that demographic.

 

[dismal]

Where is the "male lives matter" movement to protest against this greater injustice?

My guess is that the outrage has not risen because in the aftermath of the police shootings of males, there is not a barrage of commentary that their maleness means they deserved it.

Can you provide links to said barrages of commentary wherein many people say someone deserved to get shot because of their _____ness?

**IF** there was a consistent public commentary for every male killed about how they deserved it and therefore do not matter, I suspect the outrage would actually be equivalent.

Can you provide links to said consistent public commentary that a person who died did not matter because of their ____ness?

I want to be sure I am only caring about the police shooting victims with the gender and racial attributes that result in such commentary.

 

[Rhea]

I want to be sure I am only caring about the police shooting victims with the gender and racial attributes that result in such commentary.

You missed my point.

It was that absent a consistent pattern, people don't notice as much. They pay attention less until a pattern raises their awareness of something.

So people aren't saying Male Lives Matter because they haven't noticed. They haven't noticed because the events don't take on a noticeable pattern. Not all male police shooting deaths develop the same flavor.

There may indeed be a pattern that most police shooting deaths are of males. But their treatment in public commentary is diverse and varied. And so, few people notice the pattern.

(edited... )
I think the evidence that police shooting of black men results in negative commentary on their pasts is amply present here at TFT. And clearly present on internet and TV media comments sections. I'm reluctant to go hunt it up for you because it depresses me reading it. I'm sorry, I'm not willing to do that for you.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This goes twice to basic biology.

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group. So this is the ultimate case of judging people by their group rather than as individuals.

2. Men really ARE expendable regarding breeding and continuing the species. You only need one man to fertilize hundreds of women, so if population numbers are down and your goal is to continue the species, men are pretty worthless for that. There was a time in human history when this mattered, and maybe that is why human minds continue to think this way.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you figure women would react to a protest group going around shouting "MALE LIVES MATTER"? Would the response be that these men are misogynists and that "ALL LIVES MATTER"?

 

[dismal]

I want to be sure I am only caring about the police shooting victims with the gender and racial attributes that result in such commentary.

You missed my point.

It was that absent a consistent pattern, people don't notice as much. They pay attention less until a pattern raises their awareness of something.

So people aren't saying Male Lives Matter because they haven't noticed. They haven't noticed because the events don't take on a noticeable pattern. Not all male police shooting deaths develop the same flavor.

There may indeed be a pattern that most police shooting deaths are of males. But their treatment in public commentary is diverse and varied. And so, few people notice the pattern.

(edited... )
I think the evidence that police shooting of black men results in negative commentary on their pasts is amply present here at TFT. And clearly present on internet and TV media comments sections. I'm reluctant to go hunt it up for you because it depresses me reading it. I'm sorry, I'm not willing to do that for you.

Links please. If you're going to assert that whether I care about a shooting victim or not should be based on the existence of certain barrages/consistent commentary I'd like to see links to examples of the commentary that decides such things.

Since there are barrages/consistent examples of it to be had, presumably such links should be easy for you to provide.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

My guess is that the outrage has not risen because in the aftermath of the police shootings of males, there is not a barrage of commentary that their maleness means they deserved it.

This goes back well before any such shootings. This goes back to before there were guns, or even bows and arrows and developed in pretty much every culture we know about.

This also goes further afield than the race thing. Violence Against Women is a big talking point, despite violence against men being far more common. So the race comparison here would be if BLM didn't exist at all but there was instead a White Lives Matter group going with sufficient power to enact the Violence Against White People Act, etc.

 

[dismal]

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group.

Nonsense. Maleness is an artificial societal construction. If I choose not to be male tomorrow am I suddenly less violent?

When Chaz Bono chose to identify as male did he up and rob a liquor store?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group.

Nonsense. Maleness is an artificial societal construction. If I choose not to be male tomorrow am I suddenly less violent?

When Chaz Bono chose to identify as male did he up and rob a liquor store?

AS A GROUP yes, they are. Plenty of research shows it. The problem here isn't that biological fact. The problem is that people use the group to judge the individuals within it and use the group difference as an indicator that one group is prone to violence, when in reality it isn't very common in either. As you point out Chaz bono (whoever that is) probably isn't a violent person, nor are most men, but men as a group ARE more violent than women as a group are.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I am now wondering how the regressive SJWs would treat a man who came out as trans. Would that person be availed the woman card and be treated more leniently than had they continued to identify as a male?

The case of a gender fluid person would be even more interesting. I wonder if they'd actually go so far as to ask "Did you identify as a male or female at the time you did X?"

 

[PyramidHead]

First of all, questions such as these are predicated on a false premise, namely that the phrase "black lives matter" actually means "ONLY black lives matter". It doesn't. Implicit in the why not of the OP is the requirement that BLM should ensure that every group with a legitimate grievance is encompassed by their motto. This requirement does not seem to extend to all other groups who claim they are discriminated against. For instance, I've never heard of anybody ask: "why not have a HUMAN anti-defamation league?" For some reason, the "_____ lives matter" meme has provoked a reaction that interprets it as an exclusionary statement, rather than a plea for inclusion.

That being said, the spirit of the OP is spot-on; males do get the short end of the stick in many cases, some of which are covered in David Benatar's book The Second Sexism. It's absolutely true that this needs to be recognized more often, but (as Benatar goes to great lengths to clarify) not at the expense of other legitimate grievances, and certainly not to lessen the wrongness of sexism directed against females. And it should go without saying, but apparently it needs to be said: the fact that members of a certain race are upset because they feel unfairly targeted by the police really, truly has nothing to do with whatever complaint might be raised by another race, sex, or religious group. They honestly don't have to be pitted against one another as if treating people respectfully were a zero-sum game, with only so much respect to go around.

 

[KeepTalking]

The proportion of males, including unarmed males, killed by police is far greater, in proportion to their population, than the amount of females killed by police.

A staggering 95% of those killed by police are male, compared to being 49% of the population.

Males are also profiled and stopped much more frequently compared to females.

There is a systematic and institutional bias against men by the police and the criminal justice system. Over 90% of incarcerated individuals are men.

Where is the "male lives matter" movement to protest against this greater injustice?

It is just waiting for someone who cares passionately enough about the injustice against males to start it up. Why have you not stepped up to do that?

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

First of all, questions such as these are predicated on a false premise, namely that the phrase "black lives matter" actually means "ONLY black lives matter". It doesn't. Implicit in the why not of the OP is the requirement that BLM should ensure that every group with a legitimate grievance is encompassed by their motto. This requirement does not seem to extend to all other groups who claim they are discriminated against. For instance, I've never heard of anybody ask: "why not have a HUMAN anti-defamation league?" For some reason, the "_____ lives matter" meme has provoked a reaction that interprets it as an exclusionary statement, rather than a plea for inclusion.

Exactly right. Instead of putting "Only" in front of the movement, put "Also" at the end of it. It quickly becomes obvious that "Black Lives Matter Also" isn't at all racicst, and "All Lives Matter Also" is completely non-sensical.

aa

 

[blastula]

Where is the "male lives matter" movement to protest against this greater injustice?

Nobody is stopping you from starting one. But there already is a MRA movement.

 

[Terrell]

Nonsense. Maleness is an artificial societal construction. If I choose not to be male tomorrow am I suddenly less violent?

When Chaz Bono chose to identify as male did he up and rob a liquor store?

AS A GROUP yes, they are. Plenty of research shows it. The problem here isn't that biological fact. The problem is that people use the group to judge the individuals within it and use the group difference as an indicator that one group is prone to violence, when in reality it isn't very common in either. As you point out Chaz bono (whoever that is) probably isn't a violent person, nor are most men, but men as a group ARE more violent than women as a group are.

Chaz Bono was born Chastity Bono and is the child of Sonny & Cher.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

MLM end goal? Legalizing Rape

Is this the end goal that MLMers and their sympathizers want?

A controversial men’s rights group, headed up by a self-proclaimed “pick up artist” and “legalized rape” blogger, planned meetups worldwide for its like-minded members, but cancelled the events after widespread criticism including from Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
Daryush “Roosh” Valizadeh, founder of the online group “Return of Kings,” planned an international meetup day for “165 meetings in 43 countries,” on Sat., Feb. 6, according to the San Antonio Express-News. Seven of them were scheduled for the Texas cities of San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, Houston, El Paso, Denton and Nederland.

The group purportedly advocates for men’s dominance over women. Their event page boasted: “On February 6 at 8PM, readers from over 40 countries will meet in one of the biggest meetups the world has seen. This will be the start of regular meetups that serve men in a way that internet sites do not.”

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016...mens-rights-group-meetups-cancelled-in-texas/

 

[dismal]

Is this the end goal that MLMers and their sympathizers want?

A controversial men’s rights group, headed up by a self-proclaimed “pick up artist” and “legalized rape” blogger, planned meetups worldwide for its like-minded members, but cancelled the events after widespread criticism including from Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
Daryush “Roosh” Valizadeh, founder of the online group “Return of Kings,” planned an international meetup day for “165 meetings in 43 countries,” on Sat., Feb. 6, according to the San Antonio Express-News. Seven of them were scheduled for the Texas cities of San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, Houston, El Paso, Denton and Nederland.

The group purportedly advocates for men’s dominance over women. Their event page boasted: “On February 6 at 8PM, readers from over 40 countries will meet in one of the biggest meetups the world has seen. This will be the start of regular meetups that serve men in a way that internet sites do not.”

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016...mens-rights-group-meetups-cancelled-in-texas/

Oh, so there already is a group focused on the disproportionate number of men who die in police shootings.

Or someone really sucks at reading comprehension.

It's a tough call.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Is this the end goal that MLMers and their sympathizers want?


http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016...mens-rights-group-meetups-cancelled-in-texas/

Oh, so there already is a group focused on the disproportionate number of men who die in police shootings.

Or someone really sucks at reading comprehension.

You are forgiven. Also, next time I won't confuse the Legalize Rape Department with the Faux Issue Department of Men's Rights Activism. Like it matters. LOL.

 

[Axulus]

This goes twice to basic biology.

1. Males really ARE more violent as a group. So this is the ultimate case of judging people by their group rather than as individuals.

2. Men really ARE expendable regarding breeding and continuing the species. You only need one man to fertilize hundreds of women, so if population numbers are down and your goal is to continue the species, men are pretty worthless for that. There was a time in human history when this mattered, and maybe that is why human minds continue to think this way.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you figure women would react to a protest group going around shouting "MALE LIVES MATTER"? Would the response be that these men are misogynists and that "ALL LIVES MATTER"?

The fact that males as a group are more violent does not legitimize the police summarily executing unarmed men.

You seem to be blaming the victims here.