Why the Democrats have kept losing for many years....

[untermensche]

Those that use the term "liberal" to describe Democrats have drunk the coolaide.

And I see Democrats winning left and right.

All we have are two shitty parties to choose from.

That is why most people refuse to play the game. It is a game for suckers.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Abandoning full employment mainly. They bought into the idea that wages caused the 70's inflation. Targeted unemployment(around 6%), wage suppression, weakening unions, financial deregulation etc., all became Dem positions. That's one reason the Repugs hated Clinton so much; he co-opted them.

Pelosi is the current embodiment of that approach; GOP lite. Attacking her marginalizes the lefties. If you follow Dem politics at all, you know there is much discord between the mainstream and progressive wings.

Uhhh, that's crapola! We've been at full employment for a couple years. It's dems that favor raising minimum wage. Not the trumpites. How are dems favoring wage suppression and weakening unions? Its dems that passed Dodd-Frank and other such regulations.

According to u3 there's fulll employment. U6 is at 7.6%.

I guess you haven't been following the wage or labor trends since Reagan.

Also, abandoning workers who've lost their jobs to outsourcing is a political choice, not an economic inevitability.

Yes, Dems are a smidgen to the left, but only a smidgen. They sail very close to the neoliberal wind.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Abandoning full employment mainly. They bought into the idea that wages caused the 70's inflation. Targeted unemployment(around 6%), wage suppression, weakening unions, financial deregulation etc., all became Dem positions. That's one reason the Repugs hated Clinton so much; he co-opted them.

Pelosi is the current embodiment of that approach; GOP lite. Attacking her marginalizes the lefties. If you follow Dem politics at all, you know there is much discord between the mainstream and progressive wings.

Uhhh, that's crapola! We've been at full employment for a couple years. It's dems that favor raising minimum wage. Not the trumpites. How are dems favoring wage suppression and weakening unions? Its dems that passed Dodd-Frank and other such regulations.

According to u3 there's fulll employment. U6 is at 7.6%.

I guess you haven't been following the wage or labor trends since Reagan.

Also, abandoning workers who've lost their jobs to outsourcing is a political choice, not an economic inevitability.

Yes, Dems are a smidgen to the left, but only a smidgen. They sail very close to the neoliberal wind.

Good heavens! Are you suggesting that the dems seek moderates in order to try to get a majority at times? In a two party system, it's shocking that you'd suggest that!

Far better off to lower the costs of college to allow displaced workers to find new higher paying jobs than to promise protection like the republicans. In Oregon, we've made community college virtually free with a 2.75 GPA and higher. It was the dems in Oregon who fought for this. The republicans fought it all the way.

 

[Horatio Parker]

According to u3 there's fulll employment. U6 is at 7.6%.

I guess you haven't been following the wage or labor trends since Reagan.

Also, abandoning workers who've lost their jobs to outsourcing is a political choice, not an economic inevitability.

Yes, Dems are a smidgen to the left, but only a smidgen. They sail very close to the neoliberal wind.

Good heavens! Are you suggesting that the dems seek moderates in order to try to get a majority at times? In a two party system, it's shocking that you'd suggest that!

Far better off to lower the costs of college to allow displaced workers to find new higher paying jobs than to promise protection like the republicans. In Oregon, we've made community college virtually free with a 2.75 GPA and higher. It was the dems in Oregon who fought for this. The republicans fought it all the way.

Just what is being moderated? A sharp turn to the right after the oil price shocks, in the late '70's. Govt spending not on social issues, but business development. Pay to play education and health care. The right wing is driving the bus while the Dems play both ends against the middle.

 

[steve_bank]

They moved away from labor, jobs, and rights to progressive social engineering. More ideological than substantive. Nancy Pelosi's monotonous chanting of clichés is a joke, an embarrassment,. From the poles one of the least popular politicians. Blacks realized with Hilary that they were being played for votes, empty rhetoric.

Pelosi said on the ACA we will tell you whats in it after it is law, trust us it is good for you, we know what is good for you. Fulfills the conservative narrative of the liberal nanny state.Clinton had zero substance. As Trump has demonstrated all people care about is jobs, wages, and taxes. all else is secondary. Democrats present themselves as a Moses up on the mountain.

 

[RVonse]

As Trump has demonstrated all people care about is jobs, wages, and taxes. all else is secondary. Democrats present themselves as a Moses up on the mountain.

+1 Agree.

The democrats have become a race, creed, and gender party. And no longer the party of working labor.

 

[untermensche]

The Republicans are certainly not the Party of working people.

They are the party of the rich and work very hard to make the lives of working people more difficult.

 

[Harry Bosch]

As Trump has demonstrated all people care about is jobs, wages, and taxes. all else is secondary. Democrats present themselves as a Moses up on the mountain.

+1 Agree.

The democrats have become a race, creed, and gender party. And no longer the party of working labor.

Well, if the working labor no longer cares about racial and gender equality, I don't want them in my party.

 

[Mumbles]

As Trump has demonstrated all people care about is jobs, wages, and taxes. all else is secondary. Democrats present themselves as a Moses up on the mountain.

+1 Agree.

The democrats have become a race, creed, and gender party. And no longer the party of working labor.

This is a laughable inversion of reality that, yet again, fails to note that nonwhite workers outright refuse to vote for the GOP, while white voters vote in majority for them regardless of income level. What Trump actually showed is that outright bigotry is still acceptable to preferred among GOP voters. This is why Trump voters are, in study after study, related to grievances against other races, against women, and against LGBT people, while the most economically precarious groups vote overwhelmingly for democrats, over and over.

Why this shoiuld shock anyone, when Hillary overwhelmingly discussed raising the minimum wage, reigning in Wall Street, and providing health care access, while Dolt 45 ranted about Mexican rapists, Muslim terrorists, and criminal blacks who kneeled for the flag, is entirely beyond me.

 

[untermensche]

The Republicans have dominated politics by appealing to religious nuts, by appealing to the bigoted and hateful. By appealing to the ignorant and angry.

It is a masterful piece of the politics of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

It is also disastrous to the people who vote for them because in reality the Republicans work against the interests of working people.

They oppose anything that will make working life easier.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The Republicans have dominated politics by appealing to religious nuts, by appealing to the bigoted and hateful. By appealing to the ignorant and angry.

It is a masterful piece of the politics of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

It is also disastrous to the people who vote for them because in reality the Republicans work against the interests of working people.

They oppose anything that will make working life easier.

I think that the real deal is that Trump appeals to fear. Fear of Muslims. Fear of Chinese workers working for $.79 an hour. Fear of hombres. Fear of gays. Fear that white people are falling behind. It's sad... Appealing to fear isn't going to change anything.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I don't think they Democrats have "kept losing for many years", I think they lose approximately about half the time. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.

They win about half the time because they are running against the Republicans. And the Republicans win about half the time because they are running against the Democrats.

When a party gets into power, it is often because people are disgusted with the incumbent party, not pleased with the newly elected party. But then the newly elected party acts as if it has some sort of mandate to push its entire agenda at once, people get disgusted with the now incumbent party, and get rid of them and replace them with the old party. They get stepped on by the right boot and declare they will vote for the left boot, then they get stepped on by the left boot and declare they will vote for the right boot.

 

[untermensche]

The Republicans have dominated politics by appealing to religious nuts, by appealing to the bigoted and hateful. By appealing to the ignorant and angry.

It is a masterful piece of the politics of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

It is also disastrous to the people who vote for them because in reality the Republicans work against the interests of working people.

They oppose anything that will make working life easier.

I think that the real deal is that Trump appeals to fear. Fear of Muslims. Fear of Chinese workers working for $.79 an hour. Fear of hombres. Fear of gays. Fear that white people are falling behind. It's sad... Appealing to fear isn't going to change anything.

Fear and the irrational anger that arises from it.

It really takes a lot of blindness for some working person to think Trump is doing anything in their interests.

 

[steve_bank]

As Trump has demonstrated all people care about is jobs, wages, and taxes. all else is secondary. Democrats present themselves as a Moses up on the mountain.

+1 Agree.

The democrats have become a race, creed, and gender party. And no longer the party of working labor.

This is a laughable inversion of reality that, yet again, fails to note that nonwhite workers outright refuse to vote for the GOP, while white voters vote in majority for them regardless of income level. What Trump actually showed is that outright bigotry is still acceptable to preferred among GOP voters. This is why Trump voters are, in study after study, related to grievances against other races, against women, and against LGBT people, while the most economically precarious groups vote overwhelmingly for democrats, over and over.

Why this shoiuld shock anyone, when Hillary overwhelmingly discussed raising the minimum wage, reigning in Wall Street, and providing health care access, while Dolt 45 ranted about Mexican rapists, Muslim terrorists, and criminal blacks who kneeled for the flag, is entirely beyond me.

The democrats admitted they lacked dubstance in yhe autopsy. I grew up as a baby boomer in 51. The labor today is nothing like what it was through the 80s. I grew up in a union family, unions have declined. The old democratic base is gone.

On immigration democrats refuse to support a strong position on border security and hang on an ideology of a social justice that welcomes illegal immigration. An ideology that supports sanctuary cities.

The dems have become all ideology with no basis in pragmatic reality.

Umderstand I am a centrist neither republican nor democrat.

 

[couch_sloth]

I agree that the Democratic party and the DCCC need reform to be in line more with their voters. Yet, I find such pictures like this just not helpful. It's factually inaccurate, and frankly, we have enough of that nonsense flying everywhere in the age of Trump. I see no reason to stoop to that level.

This also comes awfully close to once again blurring the line between Democrats and Republicans, to the effect of "fuck it, they're all corrupt. It doesn't matter who's in power because they're fundamentally the same." Easiest thing in the world to do. It's a lazy argument, and also fundamentally untrue. Obamacare is a prime example. The GOP have been doing their level best to dismantle it. Dems wanted to fix it. Yes, it's flawed to begin with, but better is better. The tax "reform" to the rich? Muslim ban? NK meetings being run by idiots? Withdrawal from the Iran deal? Tariffs on our allies more than China? Things would be quite different right now if the situation were reversed. But, people felt "uninspired" by their candidate, so either stayed home or voted third party to "send a message to Washington". Apparently, that message is "we're even dumber than you thought."

Well said.
On the whole, republicans didn’t make the same mistake.
e.g. Many Republicans were motivated to go to the polls and vote because they couldn’t tolerate Hillary. I think the Supreme Court vacancy (and a potential for more vacancies) motivated many religious conservatives to vote for Trump

 

[Harry Bosch]

I agree that the Democratic party and the DCCC need reform to be in line more with their voters. Yet, I find such pictures like this just not helpful. It's factually inaccurate, and frankly, we have enough of that nonsense flying everywhere in the age of Trump. I see no reason to stoop to that level.

This also comes awfully close to once again blurring the line between Democrats and Republicans, to the effect of "fuck it, they're all corrupt. It doesn't matter who's in power because they're fundamentally the same." Easiest thing in the world to do. It's a lazy argument, and also fundamentally untrue. Obamacare is a prime example. The GOP have been doing their level best to dismantle it. Dems wanted to fix it. Yes, it's flawed to begin with, but better is better. The tax "reform" to the rich? Muslim ban? NK meetings being run by idiots? Withdrawal from the Iran deal? Tariffs on our allies more than China? Things would be quite different right now if the situation were reversed. But, people felt "uninspired" by their candidate, so either stayed home or voted third party to "send a message to Washington". Apparently, that message is "we're even dumber than you thought."

Well said.
On the whole, republicans didn’t make the same mistake.
e.g. Many Republicans were motivated to go to the polls and vote because they couldn’t tolerate Hillary. I think the Supreme Court vacancy (and a potential for more vacancies) motivated many religious conservatives to vote for Trump

Yea, I think that republicans are just far more to compromise in order to keep their eyes on the real prize, the Supreme Court. They are more willing to swallow pride and vote republican.

 

[Mumbles]

The Republicans have dominated politics by appealing to religious nuts, by appealing to the bigoted and hateful. By appealing to the ignorant and angry.

It is a masterful piece of the politics of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

It is also disastrous to the people who vote for them because in reality the Republicans work against the interests of working people.

They oppose anything that will make working life easier.

This is uncharitable, I prefer to give credit where credit is due.

You're assuming that GOP voters put their personal economic issues first.

As a fairly wealthy guy, I don't do this when I vote for democrats. Instead, my thought is "Let me see what's best for the common good as I see it." To me, this means equality regardless of race/religion/gender/sexuality/etc. It also means to get as close to universal access to education, health care, clean environments, etc. as possible.

Apparently, to many republicans, this means "poor people are punished for being lazy, and the 'Others' know that they're secondary to straight, white, Christian men, and are oppressed properly for the good of society."

This may seem awful, and some of it is, but it's also undoubtably what Dolt 45 promised. Even the creator of "Broken Window" policing ended up admitting that, to many people, the disorder that they wanted to stomp out wasn't a broken window, it was black people being around. And as we've seen over the years, a lot of people are happy to call police on random black people - whether it's BBQ Becky, the Starbucks manager, the asshole that called the cops on John Crawford, or at the extreme end, George Zimmerman (who was willing to chase down and murder a black kid for being around).

And I'll admit that, if I were making $14 per hour, a universal increase in minimum wage to $15/hour may make me a bit angry that I lose status, relative to people making the current minimum wage. That's just human nature. So, yes, my own advocacy for a bump up to a living wage could be seen as patronizing - it loses me no social standing, after all. But from where I am, I can't see everyone making a living wage as bad in the end, in and of itself.

 

[untermensche]

You're assuming that GOP voters put their personal economic issues first.

No I am not.

I am assuming most vote against their economic interests.

They are a bunch of blind suckers.

But they think the Democrats are liberal pansies so they have to vote Republican and drink Budweiser.

Republican voters are incredibly ignorant of history and science. They are anti-intellectual. They are epitomized by Sarah Palin.

They are emotional voters. Not thinking voters.

Democratic voters are dreamers too. They are a bunch of suckers as well. In a different way.

The system has been so thoroughly corrupted by absolute nonsense due to collusion between the corporate press and the corporate candidates and the corporations running the show through corporate lobbying.

 

[arkirk]

It is a matter of narcissistic personal wealth maintenance for most of the politicians today. They are able to lose elections and go to the lobby for continued good financial fortune, Tom Daschel, and Howard Dean and many more all immediately found high paying cushy jobs as lobbyists after serving their rich donors faithfully into a losing political election. Their reward was lobbyist jobs. It is absolutely clear as long as there is this crooked system of donation leading to legislative favoritism leading to joining the donor class, our government and civil laws will continue to degenerate. The Democrats are not the party of modern day Franklin Roosevelts. They are more like the Furrenghi *(mythical Star Trek "traders" who will sell their mother and father for a dollar and a quarter.) Spelling on the name of the Star Trek creatures is just phonetic and may not be exact as in their scripts.

The "working for the donor man" scenario is played out over and over by Democrat and Republican alike. Losing just means a different person or organization signs your paycheck. Dr. Howard Dean is a lobbyist, not some sort of person who tried to reform things. He is no better or worse than Mitch McConnel.

 

[arkirk]

I agree that the Democratic party and the DCCC need reform to be in line more with their voters. Yet, I find such pictures like this just not helpful. It's factually inaccurate, and frankly, we have enough of that nonsense flying everywhere in the age of Trump. I see no reason to stoop to that level.

This also comes awfully close to once again blurring the line between Democrats and Republicans, to the effect of "fuck it, they're all corrupt. It doesn't matter who's in power because they're fundamentally the same." Easiest thing in the world to do. It's a lazy argument, and also fundamentally untrue. Obamacare is a prime example. The GOP have been doing their level best to dismantle it. Dems wanted to fix it. Yes, it's flawed to begin with, but better is better. The tax "reform" to the rich? Muslim ban? NK meetings being run by idiots? Withdrawal from the Iran deal? Tariffs on our allies more than China? Things would be quite different right now if the situation were reversed. But, people felt "uninspired" by their candidate, so either stayed home or voted third party to "send a message to Washington". Apparently, that message is "we're even dumber than you thought."

It wasn't a matter of being uninspired by "their candidate." It was a matter of "their candidate" being a female version of Donald Trump. She and her husband used to hang with the orange one. It was a matter of offering the voting public nothing at all and selling government to the highest bidder. The Clintons are multi millionaires. What do you think they sold to get that?