Why there won't be peace between Israel and the Palestinians

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.quora.com/profile/Muhammad-Ibrahim-Hussein

Here's a Palestinian who actually wants peace.

Note the latest update is by his wife because the Palestinian police beat him too badly for him to write anything.

 

[untermensche]

This is just another symptom of oppression.

The Palestinians have no way to end the oppression.

They are dealing with hateful racists and sadists who only want them dead.

 

[laughing dog]

I thin the OP is a perfect example of why there is not peace in the Middle East. Not because of the alleged story, but because of its incredible bias. There is not peace in the Middle East because there are sufficient actors on all sides who do not want peace. Blaming one group of actors while ignoring the actions of all the other groups simply reinforces the inertia in that region.

 

[untermensche]

One set of actors has the ability to make peace.

The oppressed set of actors are helpless.

They can do nothing to move the process forward.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

Peace is on the way.

Why there won't be peace between Israel and the Palestinians

https://www.quora.com/profile/Muhammad-Ibrahim-Hussein
Here's a Palestinian who actually wants peace.

Note the latest update is by his wife because the Palestinian police beat him too badly for him to write anything.

Don't be so pessimistic.

Surely in another 500-1000 years they will make progress toward resolving the differences.

 

[Arctish]

Why do supporters of Israel act like Jews, Muslims, and Christians didn't live peacefully side by side for centuries when the Ottoman Turks were in charge of Palestine? Is it because Zionist myths don't allow historical facts to get in the way of the narrative? Is it because they have no interest in learning about the history of Israel/Palestine/Canaan? Or is it just racism and religious bigotry overriding common sense and honesty?

Jerusalem and the surrounding countryside has been the home of Jews, Christians, and Muslims for the past 14 centuries, and the place was pretty darn quiet for nearly all of them. All this bloviating about how peaceful co-existence is impossible looks and smells like bullshit.

 

[humbleman]

This problem must be solved by checking what territories were officially recognized in 1948 when the State of Israel became a sovereign nation.

Look at the proposed map at United Nations in 1956 (Palestine wasn't a State before 1947 but a region, a zone in the map. Territories under Jordan ruling, British ruling...)

Map of Israel at present time. Jerusalem is part of the State of Israel after the last war against Arab nations.

If the US becomes petroleum producer at worldwide level, then Saudi Arabia won't be needed as a kingdom allied to the Western nations and should be transformed into a democratic country. No matter if Iran destroys oil tank ships in the gulf, because oil could be distributed from the US. Then, attacking and transforming Iran into a democratic nation should be possible without affecting the economies of the rest of nations, specially European countries.

The "chains" causing European countries being "slaves" of Arabian nations because their oil could be finally broken.

Then, hell with Palestinians and their absurd claims.

The State of Israel will take it all.

Peace at last...

... then the biblical god will start the end of the era...

Sh*t!

 

[Derec]

https://www.quora.com/profile/Muhammad-Ibrahim-Hussein

Here's a Palestinian who actually wants peace.

Note the latest update is by his wife because the Palestinian police beat him too badly for him to write anything.

Also, Palestinians like to waste aid money on things like tunnels and rockets.
Israel says it destroyed mile-long Hamas tunnel

 

[Derec]

Why do supporters of Israel act like Jews, Muslims, and Christians didn't live peacefully side by side for centuries when the Ottoman Turks were in charge of Palestine?

"Peaceful" with anybody but Muslims having a second-class dhimmi status.

- - - Updated - - -

One set of actors has the ability to make peace.

The oppressed set of actors are helpless.

They can do nothing to move the process forward.

I assume by oppressed you mean the Palestinians. They can do plenty to move things forward. Like not shoot rockets into Israel. Or not digging tunnels into Israel. Small things like that would go a long way.

 

[untermensche]

One set of actors has the ability to make peace.

The oppressed set of actors are helpless.

They can do nothing to move the process forward.

I assume by oppressed you mean the Palestinians. They can do plenty to move things forward. Like not shoot rockets into Israel. Or not digging tunnels into Israel. Small things like that would go a long way.

99.99% of Palestinians are NOT shooting anybody.

When humans are subjected to oppression there is resistance (Camus talked about this eloquently in 'Resistance, Rebellion, and Death' a collection of essays).

Saying that oppression cannot end because there is a tiny percentage of violent resistance to it is just to allow oppression to go on forever.

Only the oppressor can end oppression. Or some greater power, like the UN.

But the US blocks all efforts by the UN.

 

[Derec]

99.99% of Palestinians are NOT shooting anybody.

The Hamas terrorist wing, the al-Qassam Brigades, has 40-50k fighters.
The Islamic Jihad terrorist wing, the al-Quds Brigades, has 12k fighters.
There are also terrorist groups operated by Fatah (Tanzim and Al-Aqsa Marrtyrs Brigades) as well as terrorist groups operated by smaller Palestinian factions such as PFLP, DFLP and other splitters.
So your claim of 99.99% is a blatant lie because Hamas and PIJ alone have fighters making up at least 1% of the population of West Bank and Gaza. And that's only active fighters in two biggest terror factions, not counting other factions nor counting all members, let alone sympathizers, of the factions.

In the last elections for the Legislative Council held in 2006, Hamas won 44% of the votes, the biggest share, and won a majority of the seats. The raison-d-etre of Hamas is and always has been the destruction of Israel and establishment of an Islamist state. And a big chunk of Palestinians voted for them, especially in Gaza.
This victory for Hamas is the reason why Abbas has not risked reelection, and has just began to serve the 14th year of his 4 year term.
There haven't been any legislative elections since either, but the high levels of support for Hamas are clear.

When humans are subjected to oppression there is resistance (Camus talked about this eloquently).

There was "resistance" against Israel long before the "occupation". The only reason Israel ever got West Bank and Gaza is because Arabs wanted to destroy Israel.

Saying that oppression cannot end because there is a tiny percentage of violent resistance to it is just to allow oppression to go on forever.

Tiny percentage is a lie, as I have demonstrated.

Only the oppressor can end oppression.

Israel is not in Gaza. Gaza is being oppressed by their own government, run by Hamas.

 

[Arctish]

Why do supporters of Israel act like Jews, Muslims, and Christians didn't live peacefully side by side for centuries when the Ottoman Turks were in charge of Palestine?

"Peaceful" with anybody but Muslims having a second-class dhimmi status.

Why did you put the word peaceful in scare quotes? Are you denying Jerusalem and the surrounding territory was peaceful for nearly all of the centuries the Ottoman Turks ruled the area?

 

[untermensche]

The Hamas terrorist wing, the al-Qassam Brigades, has 40-50k fighters.

The Islamic Jihad terrorist wing, the al-Quds Brigades, has 12k fighters.

They are what oppression creates.

They are all shooting rockets?

How many does it take to fire a little rocket?

There was "resistance" against Israel long before the "occupation". The only reason Israel ever got West Bank and Gaza is because Arabs wanted to destroy Israel.

You simply want the oppression to continue forever.

You offer no way for 99% of the Palestinians to make it end.

Only the oppressor can end oppression.

Israel is not in Gaza. Gaza is being oppressed by their own government, run by Hamas.

Israel is the oppressor over Gaza. It does not allow an airport or a port on the water. It does not allow free travel. It controls all goods going in and products coming out. It invades and blows the place up periodically.

Hamas is the product of oppression. the oppression started long before Hamas.

And Israel does not allow 99% of the Palestinians any way to end the oppression. There is nothing they can do to end it.

It is a tyrannical oppressor. An ugly stain in the region.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One set of actors has the ability to make peace.

The oppressed set of actors are helpless.

They can do nothing to move the process forward.

Yes, one group has the ability to make peace: The Palestinians.

 

[untermensche]

One set of actors has the ability to make peace.

The oppressed set of actors are helpless.

They can do nothing to move the process forward.

Yes, one group has the ability to make peace: The Palestinians.

No. The oppressed have no power to move anything forward unless some higher power forces the oppressor to move.

That you side with the oppressor over the oppressed is troubling.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why do supporters of Israel act like Jews, Muslims, and Christians didn't live peacefully side by side for centuries when the Ottoman Turks were in charge of Palestine? Is it because Zionist myths don't allow historical facts to get in the way of the narrative? Is it because they have no interest in learning about the history of Israel/Palestine/Canaan? Or is it just racism and religious bigotry overriding common sense and honesty?

Jerusalem and the surrounding countryside has been the home of Jews, Christians, and Muslims for the past 14 centuries, and the place was pretty darn quiet for nearly all of them. All this bloviating about how peaceful co-existence is impossible looks and smells like bullshit.

And whites and blacks lived basically peacefully side by side in the 1800's in the south. Liberating the slaves turned things hostile.

 

[Arctish]

Why do supporters of Israel act like Jews, Muslims, and Christians didn't live peacefully side by side for centuries when the Ottoman Turks were in charge of Palestine? Is it because Zionist myths don't allow historical facts to get in the way of the narrative? Is it because they have no interest in learning about the history of Israel/Palestine/Canaan? Or is it just racism and religious bigotry overriding common sense and honesty?

Jerusalem and the surrounding countryside has been the home of Jews, Christians, and Muslims for the past 14 centuries, and the place was pretty darn quiet for nearly all of them. All this bloviating about how peaceful co-existence is impossible looks and smells like bullshit.

And whites and blacks lived basically peacefully side by side in the 1800's in the south. Liberating the slaves turned things hostile.

Do you think you can stretch the meaning of the word peaceful to encompass murderous oppression? Even if you could, the Ottomans didn't enslave the Palestinians.

Are you admitting that Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived peacefully side by side in Palestine for centuries? If we compared the history of a village of Palestinian Jews with that of a nearby village of Christians and Muslims, do you acknowledge we aren't going to find much in the way of conflict between them?

 

[laughing dog]

One set of actors has the ability to make peace.

The oppressed set of actors are helpless.

They can do nothing to move the process forward.

Yes, one group has the ability to make peace: The Palestinians.

It takes all sides to make peace - the first step is promoting trust among all the relevant actors. Until that happens, there is no peace. And that requires every side to act.

 

[laughing dog]

And whites and blacks lived basically peacefully side by side in the 1800's in the south. Liberating the slaves turned things hostile.

Using your analogy, the hostilities occurred because some of the whites could not handle that liberation. Applying your analogy to the Israeli-Palestinian situation, the Israelis are clearly the "whites" (i.e. oppressors) and the Palestinians are clearly the "slaves" (i.e. the oppressed). Which means you are tacitly admitting the Israelis will be the problem.

 

[untermensche]

Why do supporters of Israel act like Jews, Muslims, and Christians didn't live peacefully side by side for centuries when the Ottoman Turks were in charge of Palestine? Is it because Zionist myths don't allow historical facts to get in the way of the narrative? Is it because they have no interest in learning about the history of Israel/Palestine/Canaan? Or is it just racism and religious bigotry overriding common sense and honesty?

Jerusalem and the surrounding countryside has been the home of Jews, Christians, and Muslims for the past 14 centuries, and the place was pretty darn quiet for nearly all of them. All this bloviating about how peaceful co-existence is impossible looks and smells like bullshit.

And whites and blacks lived basically peacefully side by side in the 1800's in the south. Liberating the slaves turned things hostile.

Slaves were continually beaten and tortured. Any infraction could result in torture, to the point of visible mutilation to persuade others.

That is not peace.

It is a state of continual violence or threat of violence.

That you think it is peace is telling.