Why we hate you & why we fight you.

[Keith&Co.]

I try to never ignore replies on this forum. Unfortunately, Syed, I've watched you long enough on here to know better than to waste any of my time in reply to anything you post. If you ever decide to actually engage in discussion here, real discussion, then use some original thought that shows some kind light is on in there somewhere, not another programmed robotic response from your programming.

as long jews bulldozed palestisnian homes terrorism will NOT STOP

A clear demonstration that you didn't read the post you're replying to...

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

as long jews bulldozed palestisnian homes terrorism will NOT STOP

Ah, if only it were that simple. But no, even if all the Jews in Israel packed their bags and left for the moon, Islamist terrorism would not stop. Even if the whole world converted to Islam, Islamist terrorism would not stop. People would still be shot, stabbed and blown up for not following the "correct" form of Islam. It's an inevitable consequence of having people who claim a monopoly on Truth.

 

[iolo]

as long jews bulldozed palestisnian homes terrorism will NOT STOP

Ah, if only it were that simple. But no, even if all the Jews in Israel packed their bags and left for the moon, Islamist terrorism would not stop. Even if the whole world converted to Islam, Islamist terrorism would not stop. People would still be shot, stabbed and blown up for not following the "correct" form of Islam. It's an inevitable consequence of having people who claim a monopoly on Truth.

How's the beam in your own eye getting on, Saintly One? If the Nazis in 'Israel' were tried and hanged it would certainly cut down the need for the Resistance.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Ah, if only it were that simple. But no, even if all the Jews in Israel packed their bags and left for the moon, Islamist terrorism would not stop. Even if the whole world converted to Islam, Islamist terrorism would not stop. People would still be shot, stabbed and blown up for not following the "correct" form of Islam. It's an inevitable consequence of having people who claim a monopoly on Truth.

How's the beam in your own eye getting on, Saintly One? If the Nazis in 'Israel' were tried and hanged it would certainly cut down the need for the Resistance.

Huh? Seriously, WTF?

 

[braces_for_impact]

Ah, if only it were that simple. But no, even if all the Jews in Israel packed their bags and left for the moon, Islamist terrorism would not stop. Even if the whole world converted to Islam, Islamist terrorism would not stop. People would still be shot, stabbed and blown up for not following the "correct" form of Islam. It's an inevitable consequence of having people who claim a monopoly on Truth.

How's the beam in your own eye getting on, Saintly One? If the Nazis in 'Israel' were tried and hanged it would certainly cut down the need for the Resistance.

Would it? Your views seem very Chomskyesque. Perhaps you could go into further detail. Maybe even without the irony of calling Jews Nazis.

 

[DrZoidberg]

as long jews bulldozed palestisnian homes terrorism will NOT STOP

A clear demonstration that you didn't read the post you're replying to...

Can we please not talk about Palestine in this thread. This thread is about ISIS = something different

 

[Syed]

as long jews bulldozed palestisnian homes terrorism will NOT STOP

Ah, if only it were that simple. But no, even if all the Jews in Israel packed their bags and left for the moon, Islamist terrorism would not stop. Even if the whole world converted to Islam, Islamist terrorism would not stop. People would still be shot, stabbed and blown up for not following the "correct" form of Islam. It's an inevitable consequence of having people who claim a monopoly on Truth.

as long white people dont care about injustice have been done to palestisnions people by jews TERRORISM WILL NOT STOP

 

[Syed]

A clear demonstration that you didn't read the post you're replying to...

Can we please not talk about Palestine in this thread. This thread is about ISIS = something different

do you want to talk about why did white people killed iraqis?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No, it really wasn't. That's nothing more than a whitewashing of history. They were very clear and straightforward about what they were doing in literally every single fucking thing that they did or said. The ... recalibration ... of their positions came after the war was already over, not when they were actually going to war for the sake of continuing slavery.

Succession was the byproduct of a feeling that slavery would be curtailed if they stayed within the US, it wasn't their primary motivation. There's a reason that the Skaveholding States seceded and the Freedom Loving States or whatever weren't a name that anyone proudly called themselves.

You should read history a little closer. While it is true that the States seceded because they were afraid that new territories being admitted as States could add more congressional power to the growing abolitionist movement, not all slave States seceded. At the time the war started there were four slave States that remained in the Union (Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky), plus slavery was allowed Washington D.C.

The war was about the right of States to secede (to save the Union), as clearly stated by Lincoln in his letter to Horace Greeley (a staunch Republican abolitionist) in response Greeley's strong editorial insisting that Lincoln free the slaves.

Lindoln's letter to Horace Greeley

If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.... I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free

The Emancipation Proclamation was not issued until almost three years into the war and did not free any slaves in even Tennessee because it was at that time already occupied by the Union. It only freed slaves in the "States in rebellion".

Who cares what Lincoln said? Lincoln didn't start a war. Lincoln didn't secede. The North was fighting to preserve the Union, not to oppose slavery, but the only reason that the Union needed preserving is because part of it wanted to break off in order to preserve slavery. That's like classifying ISIS's rationales based on what Obama says about them.

Here's what the people relevant to the discussion said when they gave their reasons:

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

That's the first line. They don't even feel the need to build up to it or anything.

Then they go on:

The people of Georgia, after an equally full and fair and deliberate hearing of the case, have declared with equal firmness that they shall not rule over them. A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution.

While the subordination and the political and social inequality of the African race was fully conceded by all, it was plainly apparent that slavery would soon disappear from what are now the non-slave-holding States of the original thirteen. The opposition to slavery was then, as now, general in those States and the Constitution was made with direct reference to that fact. But a distinct abolition party was not formed in the United States for more than half a century after the Government went into operation. The main reason was that the North, even if united, could not control both branches of the Legislature during any portion of that time. Therefore such an organization must have resulted either in utter failure or in the total overthrow of the Government.

The Presidential election of 1852 resulted in the total overthrow of the advocates of restriction and their party friends. Immediately after this result the anti-slavery portion of the defeated party resolved to unite all the elements in the North opposed to slavery an to stake their future political fortunes upon their hostility to slavery everywhere. This is the party two whom the people of the North have committed the Government. They raised their standard in 1856 and were barely defeated. They entered the Presidential contest again in 1860 and succeeded.
The prohibition of slavery in the Territories, hostility to it everywhere, the equality of the black and white races, disregard of all constitutional guarantees in its favor, were boldly proclaimed by its leaders and applauded by its followers.

With these principles on their banners and these utterances on their lips the majority of the people of the North demand that we shall receive them as our rulers.

The prohibition of slavery in the Territories is the cardinal principle of this organization.

Or Missouri:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

It goes on and on.

The people who did start a war (for the record, the name of that group is the Slave Holding States) were very clear and straightforward about why they were doing it. They categorized their actions as the slave holding states vs the non-slave holding states - that's not a derogatory term which others gave them. They also didn't give a jack shit about states asserting their rights, as could be seen in their complaints about the federal government not enforcing the Fugitive Slave Law because when states rights was asserted for anti-slavery measures, they were against those assertions of states rights.

Slavery was, by far, their number one issue. While there were, of course, other side issues which they also cared about, they were very clear and straightforward about what the primary factor was.

 

[blastula]

Yeah, even though Lincoln didn't fight the war at first with the goal to end slavery, the South did start the war to keep slavery.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yeah, even though Lincoln didn't fight the war at first with the goal to end slavery, the South did start the war to keep slavery.

And that's the relevance to the thread. When you want to find out why ISIS is doing things, you can

A) Ask ISIS.
B) Ask someone else.

A) is generally the better option. While it's true that both sides may have political reasons to hide their real rationales, ISIS is out there trying to actively recruit people. In order to do so, they are saying "This is who we are. Come join up if you like what we're saying". To suggest that what they're saying isn't intrinsically tied to their primary motivations is like saying that PETA is really about raising the minimum wage and all that animal rights stuff is just a cover.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Which is why I didn't consider it a thread derail.i thought it may work out to be a good analogy.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Ah, if only it were that simple. But no, even if all the Jews in Israel packed their bags and left for the moon, Islamist terrorism would not stop. Even if the whole world converted to Islam, Islamist terrorism would not stop. People would still be shot, stabbed and blown up for not following the "correct" form of Islam. It's an inevitable consequence of having people who claim a monopoly on Truth.

as long white people dont care about injustice have been done to palestisnions people by jews TERRORISM WILL NOT STOP

As far as I'm aware, ISIS doesn't even mention the Palestinians in its propaganda. Terrorism will not stop regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. Groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc., willl always find another reason to kill random people, and ultimately, that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

How's the beam in your own eye getting on, Saintly One? If the Nazis in 'Israel' were tried and hanged it would certainly cut down the need for the Resistance.

Huh? Seriously, WTF?

Nothing? No answer? Well, let me expand ...

You appear to be assuming that my post was somehow pro-Israeli and/or anti-Palestinian, and that seems to have angered you into attacking me as some kind of hypocrite. I think it's obvious that I was saying that Israel/Palestine was irrelevant to the question of why ISIS do what they do, and they'll find all the reasons they want to continue to do it with or without that conflict. Anything else you read into it is your own assumption, and not my problem. Although maybe in future, instead of jumping in with both feet and a bullshit accusation, you might like to read things again to make sure they say what you think they say.

 

[Syed]

as long white people dont care about injustice have been done to palestisnions people by jews TERRORISM WILL NOT STOP

As far as I'm aware, ISIS doesn't even mention the Palestinians in its propaganda. Terrorism will not stop regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. Groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc., willl always find another reason to kill random people, and ultimately, that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam.

if islam is the reason for terrorism THERE IS NO HOPE TERRORISM EVER STOP so live with it dont cry about terrorism

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

As far as I'm aware, ISIS doesn't even mention the Palestinians in its propaganda. Terrorism will not stop regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. Groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc., willl always find another reason to kill random people, and ultimately, that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam.

if islam is the reason for terrorism THERE IS NO HOPE TERRORISM EVER STOP so live with it dont cry about terrorism

"that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam"

Is it really that difficult to understand, Syed?

 

[Syed]

if islam is the reason for terrorism THERE IS NO HOPE TERRORISM EVER STOP so live with it dont cry about terrorism

"that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam"


Is it really that difficult to understand, Syed?

their interpretation of islam TRUE OR FALSE islam?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

"that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam"


Is it really that difficult to understand, Syed?

their interpretation of islam TRUE OR FALSE islam?

Doesn't matter if it's true or false. And it certainly doesn't matter whether I think ir's true or false. It only matters that they think it's true.

 

[DBT]

"that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam"


Is it really that difficult to understand, Syed?

their interpretation of islam TRUE OR FALSE islam?

The Quran says what it says. To the credit of many Muslims, they simply ignore the instructions of the Prophet. Which is a good thing.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

"that reason will boil down to their interpretation of Islam"


Is it really that difficult to understand, Syed?

their interpretation of islam TRUE OR FALSE islam?

All Islam is true Islam. It's definition is nothing more than how it's followers define it. Just like a right wing fundamentalist zealot who wants to burn gays alive and a new age preacher who sees God as loving everyone and accepts homosexuals as his brothers are both true Christians. Neither interpretation has a monopoly on the faith and they both adhere fully to it regardless of whether they come to the same conclusions about what it's supposed to be.