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Will corporate power evvvveeeeerrrrrrr be reined in?

The adults that actually know about these things called corporations and know about their influence in the US government will try to tell the naive children what is going on in the world.

Most people have no power to influence anything.

The needs of ordinary people are not even heard in Congress.

Because it is an orgy of corporate money and promises of easy wealth.
 
My problem with this thread is that it isn't corporations that are destroying our environment. Corporations are just the scapegoat. The problem is us. People are the problem. If you are concerned about the environment, don't blame scapegoats, do something about it. Plant trees. Vote against politicans who are anti environment. recycle. organize. Promote science education. pick up trash on the beach. Promote awareness. Vote. Get involved. The current political class that controls the US is the most anti environment government in our history. Do something about it. Vote. Make your vote count.

People here in Florida are screaming "where are the environment agencies" in response to some very bad algae blooms.

The people here in Florida have exactly the "environment agencies" for which they voted. And they will do it again this fall.

The scientists know exactly what needs to be done to fix our water quality problems. But the solutions hurt the profits of a handful of huge groups so the corporations block any meaningful solutions. This is why on the national level we have Scott Pruitt and his successor gutting the Chesapeake Bay Program and reversing course on regulating "Waters of the United States". Farm Bureau, Energy sector, and huge construction firms put him there to do that and they convinced the voters that it was enhancing their freedom by getting "big government" out of the way.

The biggest multinationals exist to maximize profit. That means the dumping of negative externalities on the commons benefits them. Since this tiny fraction of the population has all of the money and their is no check on their use of that money for "political speech" then they get to call the shots. No grass roots anything will make a dent in their behavior.

Planting a tree or picking up trash is a worthless symbol and won't change anything. You think your tree is going to offset the nitrogen and phosphorus running off all the chem-lawns? You think picking up a cigarette butt is going to help anything when there's a fucking red tide and simultaneous cyanobacteria bloom that has fish, crustaceans, and mammals washing up dead in staggering numbers?

Yeah, you have to vote to get the regulation in place that will make a significant change in pollution.

Hell, I think all the media attention to plastic is just a fucking distraction right now. Plastic pollution is bad, yes. But plastic isn't smothering the lagoon behind my house. We converted our entire landscape into one that doesn't get any pesticides, herbicides, fertilizer, or irrigation. Big deal, none of my neighbors have. They fertilize and irrigate right through the wet season. They think that the PSAs about nutrient pollution are libtard bullshit because that is what the media bought and paid for by Heatland Institute and Heritage Foundation tells them.

Individuals maximize rational self interest in short term economic decision making. The odd do-gooder doesn't save the commons. Heartland Institute and Heritage Foundation have figured out the messaging that they need to exploit this aspect of human nature. We don't have less acid rain today in the northeastern US because the industries causing it voluntarily reduced sulfur emissions or because automakers voluntarily figured out how to reduce NOx from cars. No, we had politicians that forced Cap and Trade for sulfur onto polluters and that forced emissions standards onto the auto industry. Politicians that would do such a thing would never get elected in 2018 and that isn't because people don't care about clean are or clean water. It is because the way politics is financed makes it impossible.
 
What powers, exactly, are corporate power?

Corporations are people my friend.

Our household gross is about $180k per year. What is Exxon worth? GE? The few big media conglomerates?

You think I have the same "vote" as the head of one of those even though in the modern world he has not just his personal wealth but that of his corporation at his disposal for funding candidates and media campaigns?

That is an amazing amount of power. Some of those big multinationals are sticking their "speech" into local elections even these days. I'm sure not able to fund state house campaigns in Montana.
 
The big multinationals have the power to exploit asymmetric information and rational self interest of the individual to make sure that they can maximize negative externalities whether that is pollution or putting financial risk on the taxpayer while keeping the profit.
 
What powers, exactly, are corporate power?

The oil and natural gas corporations, the huge banks, the military industrial complex, the weapons manufacturers and corporate mercenaries.

That is a list of industries that have corporations within them.

Corporate power is not as clean as you dream.

It is a bunch of corporations with government contacts and lobbyists that have unusual access that have influence on the work of Congress and the president.

Together they do things like drive the government to attack Iraq.

They are the reason for the lack of government resources available for things like healthcare.

As opposed to the vast majority of Americans that have no influence on the government.
 
What powers, exactly, are corporate power?

The oil and natural gas corporations, the huge banks, the military industrial complex, the weapons manufacturers and corporate mercenaries.

That is a list of industries that have corporations within them.

When the corporations are numerous and competing with one another then that is a check on their individual power.

When the industry is increasingly consolidated and the players are moving in a common direction then they are doing to have disproportionately large political power.

Farm Bureau is driven by a few huge companies these days. They didn't like what the Chesapeake Bay Agreement was doing about nutrient pollution in the Chesapeake because they didn't like the precedent that it was setting and implications for future regulations in the Mississippi basin. They put Pruitt in Trump's cabinet and poof, problem solved.
 
scrombid, the ability to use asymmetrical information. Thank you.

untermensche, try discussing things in concrete terms.

I am not your servant.

You have enough.

Look it up if you do not believe me.

Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy

"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."

https://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4
 
scrombid, the ability to use asymmetrical information. Thank you.

untermensche, try discussing things in concrete terms.

And that asymmetric information problem is mainly a problem when sectors get too consolidated. This could derail into the current structure of major media...
 
That is a list of industries that have corporations within them.

When the corporations are numerous and competing with one another then that is a check on their individual power.

If the government has a firewall against the influence of wealth from any entities with unusual wealth there is a check.

If they are competing they use existing influence to help with the competition.
 
What powers, exactly, are corporate power?

The oil and natural gas corporations, the huge banks, the military industrial complex, the weapons manufacturers and corporate mercenaries.

That is a list of industries that have corporations within them.

I would argue that energy is one of those industries with a few players that are moving in a similar direction. The Heartland Institute carries their water. The monster-mega-banks (term borrowed from Clark Howard) have a ridiculous amount of individual political power. Just look at how they structured the failures and acquisitions and consolidation that occurred in 2008 as Wachovia, WAMU, and many others were allowed to fail and their remaining assets transferred to Chase, Wells Fargo, etc... And their ability to block any reasonable regulations.
 
What powers, exactly, are corporate power?

Corporations are people my friend.

Our household gross is about $180k per year. What is Exxon worth? GE? The few big media conglomerates?

You think I have the same "vote" as the head of one of those even though in the modern world he has not just his personal wealth but that of his corporation at his disposal for funding candidates and media campaigns?

That is an amazing amount of power. Some of those big multinationals are sticking their "speech" into local elections even these days. I'm sure not able to fund state house campaigns in Montana.

It is also necessary to distinguish between corporations, obviously. There are all sorts, small, ethical, nonprofit etc.

When the word 'corporations' is used, it often, these days, refers to very large corporations or multinationals. That is arguably slightly misleading shorthand.

I read that most (slightly more than half) of the largest 100 world economies these days are large corporations, not countries.

It is not really up for debate as to whether those sorts of corporations generally have damaged the environment. It's a fact. As is the case for Human Rights and Social damage.
 
The big multinationals have the power to exploit asymmetric information and rational self interest of the individual to make sure that they can maximize negative externalities whether that is pollution.....

And, perhaps somewhat related to your point, not just the big multinationals:

"Just between you and me, shouldn’t the World Bank be encouraging more migration of dirty industries to the LDCs [less developed countries]?… The economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable, and we should face up to that… Under-populated countries in Africa are vastly under-polluted; their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low (sic) compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City… The concern over an agent that causes a one in a million change in the odds of prostate cancer is obviously going to be much higher in a country where people survive to get prostate cancer than in a country where under-five mortality is 200 per thousand."

(Chief Economist for the World Bank, Lawrence Summers, now Director of The National Economic Council. Internal (leaked) memo, published by The Economist Magazine, 1991, under the article title, 'Let Them Eat Pollution').

One wonders what 'vastly inefficiently high' (which he appears to have meant to say) levels of air quality are, if it's not the same as 'vastly under-polluted').

Toxic capitalism unmasked.
 
The right to breath.

The right to live.

It's going to be harder to live in the world being created by corporate power with it's desire to consume resources as fast as possible and pollute to the greatest extent possible.

Corporate power is a power that no human presently can stop. It controls governments. It controls the US government. It controls the media and what messages appear in it.

Something the witless have no problem with.

No problem with unchecked human power. No, never been a problem.
It was much much worse in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. And due to that crap, the Government slowly got involved. Government (OSHA) has helped dramatically lower work place accidents and deaths. Oddly, it is the US Governments insistence to do otherwise that keeps employment attached to health care, not corporations themselves.

How did you determine that OSHA had a dramatic impact?

osha.png
 
With any immoral system, like monarchy, or dictatorship it is always a very few that carry out the severe violence necessary to keep the system running.

Corporate power is stronger than nations. It controls powerful governments.

People are blind to the fact that something like the attack of Iraq is a corporate problem.

Where was Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice when Bush won the presidency?
 
With any immoral system, like monarchy, or dictatorship it is always a very few that carry out the severe violence necessary to keep the system running.

Corporate power is stronger than nations. It controls powerful governments.

People are blind to the fact that something like the attack of Iraq is a corporate problem.

Where was Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice when Bush won the presidency?

You have no logic. Why would these corporations be pro-war and want to attack Iraq? Wouldn't they rather get their government check without the war? With all the power you claim they have, they could easily make that happen. In fact, they could get bigger checks since the government wouldn't need to pay as many soldiers and also would not need to pay them as much. The checks could be written to themselves instead.

Hmmm, something is missing from your bizarre story. It has about the same amount of logic as the 9/11 truthers.
 
With any immoral system, like monarchy, or dictatorship it is always a very few that carry out the severe violence necessary to keep the system running.

Corporate power is stronger than nations. It controls powerful governments.

People are blind to the fact that something like the attack of Iraq is a corporate problem.

Where was Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice when Bush won the presidency?

You have no logic. Why would these corporations be pro-war and want to attack Iraq? Wouldn't they rather get their government check without the war? With all the power you claim they have, they could easily make that happen. In fact, they could get bigger checks since we wouldn't need to pay as many soldiers.

You think there was no profit for companies like Halliburton?

How much money did Dick Cheney make from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Without any previous business experience, Cheney leaves the Department of Defense to become the CEO of Halliburton Co., one of the biggest oil-services companies in the world. He will be chairman of the company from 1996 to October 1998 and from February to August 2000. Under Cheney's leadership, Halliburton moves up from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon's list of top contractors. The company garners $2.3 billion in U.S. government contracts, which almost doubles the $1.2 billion it earned from the government previously

Halliburton shares returned 467% over the last decade.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-did-Dick-Cheney-make-from-the-wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan
 
You think there was no profit for companies like Halliburton?

How much money did Dick Cheney make from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Without any previous business experience, Cheney leaves the Department of Defense to become the CEO of Halliburton Co., one of the biggest oil-services companies in the world. He will be chairman of the company from 1996 to October 1998 and from February to August 2000. Under Cheney's leadership, Halliburton moves up from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon's list of top contractors. The company garners $2.3 billion in U.S. government contracts, which almost doubles the $1.2 billion it earned from the government previously

Halliburton shares returned 467% over the last decade.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-did-Dick-Cheney-make-from-the-wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan

Why can't they get the same volume of government contracts without the war given all the corporate power they have? You didn't address my point at all!

You would have me believe they used their power to start a war. Then they used their power to get more government contracts. The far easier, direct and logical route would be to simply use their power to get more government contracts without any war at all.
 
You think there was no profit for companies like Halliburton?

Halliburton shares returned 467% over the last decade.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-did-Dick-Cheney-make-from-the-wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan

Why can't they get the same volume of government contracts without the war given all the corporate power they have? You didn't address my point at all!

You can't build huge shoddy overpriced facilities in Iraq without a war and occupation of Iraq.

You can't build that shit for that price in the US.

If all you are doing is ordering supplies there will be questions.

But if it is war it is full steam ahead.

You have billions before you've arrived.
 
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