Will human population and economic activity exceed the Planets carrying capacity?

[Jokodo]

Wtf. You are not an idiot. This shouldn't be hard to work out for you. I looked it up. Yup. It happened. Trees used in industry have specific requirements. They cut down the industrialy useful trees. The ones that survived aren't. For whatever reason.

I don't know what to say. Read the book yourself if this is so hard to accept. Or just Google it. It's a significant event in Japanese history

The only thing I can find is referencing back to Jarred Diamond.

By the way, Japan also has two endemic species of beech trees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagus_crenata and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagus_japonica

 

[Jokodo]

I have made my position quite clear. It's your questions and objections that do not appear to relate to my position as I have expressed it. It's quite vexing, I say one thing, but your response appears to relate to your own version, what you believe I said, which is not what I actually said.

It really is quite vexing.

Here's an abstract representation of the conversation:

You: X, and also Y.
Me: Why X?
You: Because <argument/link supporting Y>
Me: I'm with you on Y, but why X?
You: They don't contradict each other!
Me: No, they don't, but you still haven't supported X.
You: Not fair, I just said Y!

If you had the honesty to only make claims you're ready to support, it could go like this:

You: Y.
Me: Granted, but here's why I think that's not as relevant as it seems: Z

Or if you just admitted that you can't support a claim rather than pretending you never made it:

You: X, and also Y.
Me: Alright about Y, but why X?
You: Well, maybe not X.
Me: Alright then, given Y, I propose Z.

... both of which would be much more productive than the sorry excuse for a discussion we're having.

It certainly is a sorry excuse for a discussion, but not for the reasons you give. Certainly not because my position has not been made clear.

Your position isn't unclear.

You do however have a habit of throwing around factoids that are neither necessary nor sufficient to support, and react very poorly when asked to support them.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Wtf. You are not an idiot. This shouldn't be hard to work out for you. I looked it up. Yup. It happened. Trees used in industry have specific requirements. They cut down the industrialy useful trees. The ones that survived aren't. For whatever reason.

I don't know what to say. Read the book yourself if this is so hard to accept. Or just Google it. It's a significant event in Japanese history

The only thing I can find is referencing back to Jarred Diamond.

By the way, Japan also has two endemic species of beech trees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagus_crenata and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagus_japonica

How are you searching? I find lots.

https://www.ubcpress.ca/asset/12526/1/9780774808828.pdf

 

[Jokodo]

Wtf. You are not an idiot. This shouldn't be hard to work out for you. I looked it up. Yup. It happened. Trees used in industry have specific requirements. They cut down the industrialy useful trees. The ones that survived aren't. For whatever reason.

I don't know what to say. Read the book yourself if this is so hard to accept. Or just Google it. It's a significant event in Japanese history

The only thing I can find is referencing back to Jarred Diamond.

By the way, Japan also has two endemic species of beech trees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagus_crenata and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagus_japonica

How are you searching? I find lots.

https://www.ubcpress.ca/asset/12526/1/9780774808828.pdf

I find a lot about forestry in Japan, but nothing that says that all or most trees providing valuable timber were at one point all but extinct.

Your link doesn't appear to say that either.

 

[DrZoidberg]

How are you searching? I find lots.

https://www.ubcpress.ca/asset/12526/1/9780774808828.pdf

I find a lot about forestry in Japan, but nothing that says that all or most trees providing valuable timber were at one point all but extinct.

Your link doesn't appear to say that either.

Why else would they be forced to import trees from their arch enemy China?

 

[Jokodo]

Just to remind you what your claim has been (emphasis added):

Sure, but as far as I remember it, he did present positive examples of societies that managed to avert disaster - including Japan which engaged in concentrated efforts at reforestation starting in the 1700s.

Japan didn't avert disaster. They cut down every single Japanese tree. Japan today has no indigenous tree species. They're all imported. The conservation efforts only came into effect after the worst case scenario had come to pass.

If applied to global warming we're fucked. We can't even stop eating tiger shrimps and palm oil. If we can't even do the simple things what hope do we have to do the hard stuff

For comparison, a couple quotes from your link:

although forest resource deterioration began as early as the 17th century, forest conservation has also been practices since then

- - - Updated - - -

How are you searching? I find lots.

https://www.ubcpress.ca/asset/12526/1/9780774808828.pdf

I find a lot about forestry in Japan, but nothing that says that all or most trees providing valuable timber were at one point all but extinct.

Your link doesn't appear to say that either.

Why else would they be forced to import trees from their arch enemy China?

Where are you reading that?

 

[Jokodo]

Your link also says this: "From then [the beginning of plantation forestry in the 1700s] until now, artificial planting has involed mainly sugi (Japanese cedar, Cryptomeria japonica) and hinoki [ Chamaecyparis_obtusa.]"

Both of these species are endemic to Japan!

 

[fromderinside]

Either rake more slowly or try a rake with wider spaced tongs. There is a relation between the rocks in the garden.

 

[DBT]

It certainly is a sorry excuse for a discussion, but not for the reasons you give. Certainly not because my position has not been made clear.

Your position isn't unclear.

You do however have a habit of throwing around factoids that are neither necessary nor sufficient to support, and react very poorly when asked to support them.

'Factoids? Nah, I am saying nothing more than what is in the studies that I have cited and quoted from. Any minor error that I may have made makes no difference to the overall picture.

An overall picture that you have failed to address, instead agonizing over this or that minor detail, yet failing to consider the precarious path we happen to be on, and the consequences over the next few decades if radical measures are not quickly taken.

 

[steve_bank]

A new American govt report is out.

Within 60 years Midwest corn production will be down 75%. Acidic ocean water is rising killing shell fish and reefs. <arine food production will drop.

GDP will be down 10%. Phoenix will have regular days above 100 deg. Continuous fires.

Overall it looks grim. A previous report predicted the USA will no longer be a a food exporter.

If you are in your 20s-30s you may expect drastic changes.