Woke is white arrogance

[KeepTalking]

Lol. No

In that case, would you like to retract the following statement:
"Lee made an awful American remake of, making it woke"

Or, maybe it was the film being awful that made it woke. I find that difficult to accept, as there are a ton of awful movies out there that are definitely not woke by anyone's standards.

I'm not retracting the statement. Lee's movies are both good and woke. Usually. Oldboy was awful. But it wasn't awful because it was woke. It was awful for other reasons. But he did manage to crowbar woke into Oldboy for no reason. It was superfluous. But it was such a stinker that it didn't really matter.

A movie can be woke AND good. There's no conflict. Which is why I love Spike Lee.

I have a friend who is a militant feminist and a lesbian. She loves Disney movies. She does not agree with the messages of those films. She still loves them.

I think you have a preposterously single (simple?) minded view of how tastes in films should work. Human beings are complex. We can hold conflicting ideas in our heads. It's normal.

And I think you have a preposterously single (simple?) minded view of woke. Your statement before made woke the reason for disliking the film, now we find that you dislike it for other reasons, and like some other woke films, but you still refuse to retract the statement. Why?

Now, getting back to that issue you seem to have identified with how I think taste in films should work. You are wrong. I am very aware of the complexity of human taste, and I did not for a second think that you disliked the film because it was woke. I do think you make absolute statements like that in order to bolster your argument against what you perceive to be woke. My responses have been to get you to see that making such absolute statements do not help your argument, and rather do it harm by making it very easy to poke holes in that argument. I would hope that pointing that out would get you to stop doing that, so we can really talk about the issue. Doing so might also help point out those errors to others. Either or both of those hopes might be entirely futile in this case, but what the hell, I enjoy clapping with one hand as much as the next guy.

 

[ZiprHead]

Because the lack of any grand plan to succeed. There's no vision of where we want to get to. There's no acknowledgement that there's any price to pay. Because of the hallmark of PC/woke, tokenism. Blacks, gays and minorities are only allowed up on the stage as long as they repeat the woke message. If they have anything else to say, they are not welcome. While blacks might front these organizations, on social media it's whites having a go at one another. Ie, it's an internal ideological war within the priviliged class, who have no intention of letting go of their privilege. No priviliged group ever does.

So what is your grand plan to succeed?

A start is to acknowledge that it might be complicated, not straight forward, involve other dynamics than just racism and that postmodernism might not be correct.

That's your grand plan?



(snipped the rest of your post because it was nothing more than a rant against wokism.)

 

[TomC]

That's your grand plan?

Perhaps you missed the beginning of his post?

A start is to acknowledge...

Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

A start is to acknowledge that it might be complicated, not straight forward, involve other dynamics than just racism and that postmodernism might not be correct.

That's your grand plan?



(snipped the rest of your post because it was nothing more than a rant against wokism.)

Not to mention obscenely overlooking the fact that none of us here are saying the primary problem is "racism". The people on the left of this issue know and acknowledge that the solutions are not exactly "straightforward", and that the path forward lies in experimentation and adjustment of myriad social and bureaucratic systems; that the changes need to be done with care.

It's just a straw-man repeated endlessly that DrZ keeps spamming.

The problems are enduring structures in society that do not allow dynamic economic mobility as a function of well-directed effort. That is not "racism"; racism is a tiny microcosm of it, with the rest being populated by ignorance, apathy, and apparently great levels of arrogance on behalf of some to overlook the needs of everyone.

 

[ZiprHead]

A start is to acknowledge that it might be complicated, not straight forward, involve other dynamics than just racism and that postmodernism might not be correct.

That's your grand plan?



(snipped the rest of your post because it was nothing more than a rant against wokism.)

Not to mention obscenely overlooking the fact that none of us here are saying the primary problem is "racism". The people on the left of this issue know and acknowledge that the solutions are not exactly "straightforward", and that the path forward lies in experimentation and adjustment of myriad social and bureaucratic systems; that the changes need to be done with care.

It's just a straw-man repeated endlessly that DrZ keeps spamming.

The problems are enduring structures in society that do not allow dynamic economic mobility as a function of well-directed effort. That is not "racism"; racism is a tiny microcosm of it, with the rest being populated by ignorance, apathy, and apparently great levels of arrogance on behalf of some to overlook the needs of everyone.

Since DrZ obviously doesn't have a plan it means his caring about wokism is fake, by his standards.

 

[DrZoidberg]

And I think you have a preposterously single (simple?) minded view of woke. Your statement before made woke the reason for disliking the film, now we find that you dislike it for other reasons, and like some other woke films, but you still refuse to retract the statement. Why?

I didn't. Which defeats your following arguments. You read something into my post which I didn't say.

Now, getting back to that issue you seem to have identified with how I think taste in films should work. You are wrong. I am very aware of the complexity of human taste, and I did not for a second think that you disliked the film because it was woke. I do think you make absolute statements like that in order to bolster your argument against what you perceive to be woke. My responses have been to get you to see that making such absolute statements do not help your argument, and rather do it harm by making it very easy to poke holes in that argument. I would hope that pointing that out would get you to stop doing that, so we can really talk about the issue. Doing so might also help point out those errors to others. Either or both of those hopes might be entirely futile in this case, but what the hell, I enjoy clapping with one hand as much as the next guy.

You projected absolutism onto my posts. I'm sure you did it to make it easier to poke holes in them. But I'm not going to defend things I didn't say, or defend positions I never held just to make life easier for you.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not to mention obscenely overlooking the fact that none of us here are saying the primary problem is "racism". The people on the left of this issue know and acknowledge that the solutions are not exactly "straightforward", and that the path forward lies in experimentation and adjustment of myriad social and bureaucratic systems; that the changes need to be done with care.

It's just a straw-man repeated endlessly that DrZ keeps spamming.

The problems are enduring structures in society that do not allow dynamic economic mobility as a function of well-directed effort. That is not "racism"; racism is a tiny microcosm of it, with the rest being populated by ignorance, apathy, and apparently great levels of arrogance on behalf of some to overlook the needs of everyone.

Since DrZ obviously doesn't have a plan it means his caring about wokism is fake, by his standards.

So if you are home and you would like to have dinner, you will continue opening the fridge over and over in the hope that food will appear. You don't want to leave the house searching for a shop, because you don't know exactly where it is. Better to keep opening the fridge over and over. What if food suddenly appears when your looking for the shop? It might not even exist!!!

Woke is like Evangelical Christianity in that it's so convinced that it's true that it's not willing to accept any other method, nor is willing to accept that their methods might be counter productive and actually lead to worsening the situation.

A good example is feminism is Sweden. Swedish women are under less social and legal pressure than anywhere else. Plenty of parental leave which Swedes are forced to split between both parents, daycare. In Sweden having kids is less of a hassle for women than anywhere else. Generous social welfare means that nobody needs to take any job they don't want to.

In Sweden jobs traditionally coded as female got relatively more women going for it. The more feminism the less female engineers. The more feminism the more extreme the effect. India by contrast has almost 50/50 on their engineering education. Hardly a bastion of feminism.

Clearly there's something wrong with postmodern feminist theory. If gender is nothing but a construct, than the more feminism the less extreme should we find the gendering of jobs are. But it's the exact opposite. Does this stop the Swedish feminists? Nope. They're doubling down. They're hunting for the elusive patriarchal oppression to a point where it's now ridiculous. Competitions are increasingly forcing mixed teams, and banning men from competing alone.

Sweden isn't facing an apocalypse and it's still a decent country to live. There's little incentive to change it. So I doubt we will see any change in this in the foreseeable future. But still being part of the Swedish cultural sphere and having friends there... it's a total joke to many Swedes. It's a country split down the middle between woke fanatics convinced about their truth searching for new witches to burn and people trying to keep their heads down making subtle jokes about the idiocy of the wokes.

CRT and postmodern feminism has the same theoretical framework. They are both based on the same method with which to model reality. Both are the theoretical framework underpinning woke. If postmodern feminism is wrong, then so is CRT.

We don't need a fully formed new plan to abandon a plan we know is wrong. At this point no plan is better than woke.

 

[ZiprHead]

Not to mention obscenely overlooking the fact that none of us here are saying the primary problem is "racism". The people on the left of this issue know and acknowledge that the solutions are not exactly "straightforward", and that the path forward lies in experimentation and adjustment of myriad social and bureaucratic systems; that the changes need to be done with care.

It's just a straw-man repeated endlessly that DrZ keeps spamming.

The problems are enduring structures in society that do not allow dynamic economic mobility as a function of well-directed effort. That is not "racism"; racism is a tiny microcosm of it, with the rest being populated by ignorance, apathy, and apparently great levels of arrogance on behalf of some to overlook the needs of everyone.

Since DrZ obviously doesn't have a plan it means his caring about wokism is fake, by his standards.

So if you are home and you would like to have dinner, you will continue opening the fridge over and over in the hope that food will appear. You don't want to leave the house searching for a shop, because you don't know exactly where it is. Better to keep opening the fridge over and over. What if food suddenly appears when your looking for the shop? It might not even exist!!!

Woke is like Evangelical Christianity in that it's so convinced that it's true that it's not willing to accept any other method, nor is willing to accept that their methods might be counter productive and actually lead to worsening the situation.

A good example is feminism is Sweden. Swedish women are under less social and legal pressure than anywhere else. Plenty of parental leave which Swedes are forced to split between both parents, daycare. In Sweden having kids is less of a hassle for women than anywhere else. Generous social welfare means that nobody needs to take any job they don't want to.

In Sweden jobs traditionally coded as female got relatively more women going for it. The more feminism the less female engineers. The more feminism the more extreme the effect. India by contrast has almost 50/50 on their engineering education. Hardly a bastion of feminism.

Clearly there's something wrong with postmodern feminist theory. If gender is nothing but a construct, than the more feminism the less extreme should we find the gendering of jobs are. But it's the exact opposite. Does this stop the Swedish feminists? Nope. They're doubling down. They're hunting for the elusive patriarchal oppression to a point where it's now ridiculous. Competitions are increasingly forcing mixed teams, and banning men from competing alone.

Sweden isn't facing an apocalypse and it's still a decent country to live. There's little incentive to change it. So I doubt we will see any change in this in the foreseeable future. But still being part of the Swedish cultural sphere and having friends there... it's a total joke to many Swedes. It's a country split down the middle between woke fanatics convinced about their truth searching for new witches to burn and people trying to keep their heads down making subtle jokes about the idiocy of the wokes.

CRT and postmodern feminism has the same theoretical framework. They are both based on the same method with which to model reality. Both are the theoretical framework underpinning woke. If postmodern feminism is wrong, then so is CRT.

We don't need a fully formed new plan to abandon a plan we know is wrong. At this point no plan is better than woke.

None of that addresses my point.

 

[Gospel]

I love Spike Lee and I love his movies. But he is woke. He was the example in my head when I was thinking about how blacks are only allowed to direct if they play the woke game. He is extremely woke. Everything I have seen by and about him screams woke.

BTW, Oldboy is a Korean, not woke, film which Lee made an awful American remake of, making it woke, and thereby stupid.

Setting some confusion on my end aside (having to do with you calling Spike Lee's works both PC (Politically correct) and Woke. Where do you get the idea that Spike Lee is only doing woke movies because he is not allowed to do anything else? How I see it is, the issue Black people have gone (and are going) through in America is personally important to him, and he uses his platform to draw attention to issues and generate conversations.

The only way I can see Spike Lee being at all inhibited from doing non-woke productions is solely due to his personal beliefs colliding with the current/past climate in America towards Black people. In other words, if there were no racial issues Spike Lee probably would be doing non-race-related movies (or as you may put it, non-woke movies).

Again, where is your proof that Spike or any Black director for that matter is "only allowed to direct if they play the woke game" or to phrase the question on my terms, where is your proof that Spike or Any Black director is doing woke movies they aren't personally invested in? And by personally invested I specifically mean the movie is the director's personal expression.

 

[RVonse]

A good example is feminism is Sweden. Swedish women are under less social and legal pressure than anywhere else. Plenty of parental leave which Swedes are forced to split between both parents, daycare. In Sweden having kids is less of a hassle for women than anywhere else. Generous social welfare means that nobody needs to take any job they don't want to.

In Sweden jobs traditionally coded as female got relatively more women going for it. The more feminism the less female engineers. The more feminism the more extreme the effect. India by contrast has almost 50/50 on their engineering education. Hardly a bastion of feminism.

Clearly there's something wrong with postmodern feminist theory. If gender is nothing but a construct, than the more feminism the less extreme should we find the gendering of jobs are. But it's the exact opposite. Does this stop the Swedish feminists? Nope. They're doubling down. They're hunting for the elusive patriarchal oppression to a point where it's now ridiculous. Competitions are increasingly forcing mixed teams, and banning men from competing alone.

Sweden isn't facing an apocalypse and it's still a decent country to live.

Fortunately for Sweden, you will not have to fight any wars. For America to act this same manner is to invite a disaster IMHO. In America today heterosexual white men, that is, totally normal people, are subject to every epithet known to mankind. They are demonized relentlessly. They cannot protest hate speech or hate crimes against them. They cannot exercise free speech. They are totally dispossessed of their rights and humanity. But yet they are “privileged.”

The unfortunate reality though, is that Washington relies on Southern “redneck racists” to fight its wars. As such, the current Secretary of Defense is imposing “racial sensitivity training” on white soldiers. Does this imbecile think any white heterosexual male will fight for him, for a country that conducts an unrelentless campaign against white heterosexual males?

Personally I think not....and we are doomed if we think so. Amazons are a fanciful story, but women have always been dependent on men, and the pretense that they are not, now institutionalized throughout American society, is one great delusion....

 

[Gospel]

A good example is feminism is Sweden. Swedish women are under less social and legal pressure than anywhere else. Plenty of parental leave which Swedes are forced to split between both parents, daycare. In Sweden having kids is less of a hassle for women than anywhere else. Generous social welfare means that nobody needs to take any job they don't want to.

In Sweden jobs traditionally coded as female got relatively more women going for it. The more feminism the less female engineers. The more feminism the more extreme the effect. India by contrast has almost 50/50 on their engineering education. Hardly a bastion of feminism.

Clearly there's something wrong with postmodern feminist theory. If gender is nothing but a construct, than the more feminism the less extreme should we find the gendering of jobs are. But it's the exact opposite. Does this stop the Swedish feminists? Nope. They're doubling down. They're hunting for the elusive patriarchal oppression to a point where it's now ridiculous. Competitions are increasingly forcing mixed teams, and banning men from competing alone.

Sweden isn't facing an apocalypse and it's still a decent country to live.

Fortunately for Sweden, you will not have to fight any wars. For America to act this same manner is to invite a disaster IMHO. In America today heterosexual white men, that is, totally normal people, are subject to every epithet known to mankind. They are demonized relentlessly. They cannot protest hate speech or hate crimes against them. They cannot exercise free speech. They are totally dispossessed of their rights and humanity. But yet they are “privileged.”

The unfortunate reality though, is that Washington relies on Southern “redneck racists” to fight its wars. As such, the current Secretary of Defense is imposing “racial sensitivity training” on white soldiers. Does this imbecile think any white heterosexual male will fight for him, for a country that conducts an unrelentless campaign against white heterosexual males?

Personally I think not....and we are doomed if we think so. Amazons are a fanciful story, but women have always been dependent on men, and the pretense that they are not, now institutionalized throughout American society, is one great delusion....

Southern “redneck racists” are the minority. They're not the majority in our Military, Police force, or population in general. That's just flat-out delusional.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I love Spike Lee and I love his movies. But he is woke. He was the example in my head when I was thinking about how blacks are only allowed to direct if they play the woke game. He is extremely woke. Everything I have seen by and about him screams woke.

BTW, Oldboy is a Korean, not woke, film which Lee made an awful American remake of, making it woke, and thereby stupid.

Setting some confusion on my end aside (having to do with you calling Spike Lee's works both PC (Politically correct) and Woke. Where do you get the idea that Spike Lee is only doing woke movies because he is not allowed to do anything else? How I see it is, the issue Black people have gone (and are going) through in America is personally important to him, and he uses his platform to draw attention to issues and generate conversations.

The only way I can see Spike Lee being at all inhibited from doing non-woke productions is solely due to his personal beliefs colliding with the current/past climate in America towards Black people. In other words, if there were no racial issues Spike Lee probably would be doing non-race-related movies (or as you may put it, non-woke movies).

Again, where is your proof that Spike or any Black director for that matter is "only allowed to direct if they play the woke game" or to phrase the question on my terms, where is your proof that Spike or Any Black director is doing woke movies they aren't personally invested in? And by personally invested I specifically mean the movie is the director's personal expression.

I'm convinced Spike Lee is only doing the movies he wants to do. He's so famous he's not constrained by anything. I'm sure the reason he is so focused on race is because it's such an important topic to him. He's like the pope of woke. Why would he want to make films about anything else? And that's the point. It's significant that the most prominent American black director today (my opinion) is fanatically woke. Why did he and not anyone black and not woke rise to that level of prominence?

Lot's of people want to be directors. There's a selection bias. If this selection bias is systematic it will pull in a direction. The direction the selection bias pulls toward is interesting. It's interesting that black directors not interested in making films about racism aren't. For whatever reason. Selection biases can operate on many levels and for many reasons. But if something consistently happens there's a reason.

 

[DrZoidberg]

A good example is feminism is Sweden. Swedish women are under less social and legal pressure than anywhere else. Plenty of parental leave which Swedes are forced to split between both parents, daycare. In Sweden having kids is less of a hassle for women than anywhere else. Generous social welfare means that nobody needs to take any job they don't want to.

In Sweden jobs traditionally coded as female got relatively more women going for it. The more feminism the less female engineers. The more feminism the more extreme the effect. India by contrast has almost 50/50 on their engineering education. Hardly a bastion of feminism.

Clearly there's something wrong with postmodern feminist theory. If gender is nothing but a construct, than the more feminism the less extreme should we find the gendering of jobs are. But it's the exact opposite. Does this stop the Swedish feminists? Nope. They're doubling down. They're hunting for the elusive patriarchal oppression to a point where it's now ridiculous. Competitions are increasingly forcing mixed teams, and banning men from competing alone.

Sweden isn't facing an apocalypse and it's still a decent country to live.

Fortunately for Sweden, you will not have to fight any wars. For America to act this same manner is to invite a disaster IMHO. In America today heterosexual white men, that is, totally normal people, are subject to every epithet known to mankind. They are demonized relentlessly. They cannot protest hate speech or hate crimes against them. They cannot exercise free speech. They are totally dispossessed of their rights and humanity. But yet they are “privileged.”

The unfortunate reality though, is that Washington relies on Southern “redneck racists” to fight its wars. As such, the current Secretary of Defense is imposing “racial sensitivity training” on white soldiers. Does this imbecile think any white heterosexual male will fight for him, for a country that conducts an unrelentless campaign against white heterosexual males?

Personally I think not....and we are doomed if we think so. Amazons are a fanciful story, but women have always been dependent on men, and the pretense that they are not, now institutionalized throughout American society, is one great delusion....

I think this is an excellent possible explanation to what it could be about. Sweden hasn't been to war for over 200 years. Swedish men haven't had to "man up" for a very long time.

The world is full of middle-class academics lecturing to the working class, while that same middle-class wouldn't dream of taking a bullet for the people they're lecturing to. Yet somehow feel they can relate to what these men are going through.

 

[RVonse]

A good example is feminism is Sweden. Swedish women are under less social and legal pressure than anywhere else. Plenty of parental leave which Swedes are forced to split between both parents, daycare. In Sweden having kids is less of a hassle for women than anywhere else. Generous social welfare means that nobody needs to take any job they don't want to.

In Sweden jobs traditionally coded as female got relatively more women going for it. The more feminism the less female engineers. The more feminism the more extreme the effect. India by contrast has almost 50/50 on their engineering education. Hardly a bastion of feminism.

Clearly there's something wrong with postmodern feminist theory. If gender is nothing but a construct, than the more feminism the less extreme should we find the gendering of jobs are. But it's the exact opposite. Does this stop the Swedish feminists? Nope. They're doubling down. They're hunting for the elusive patriarchal oppression to a point where it's now ridiculous. Competitions are increasingly forcing mixed teams, and banning men from competing alone.

Sweden isn't facing an apocalypse and it's still a decent country to live.

Fortunately for Sweden, you will not have to fight any wars. For America to act this same manner is to invite a disaster IMHO. In America today heterosexual white men, that is, totally normal people, are subject to every epithet known to mankind. They are demonized relentlessly. They cannot protest hate speech or hate crimes against them. They cannot exercise free speech. They are totally dispossessed of their rights and humanity. But yet they are “privileged.”

The unfortunate reality though, is that Washington relies on Southern “redneck racists” to fight its wars. As such, the current Secretary of Defense is imposing “racial sensitivity training” on white soldiers. Does this imbecile think any white heterosexual male will fight for him, for a country that conducts an unrelentless campaign against white heterosexual males?

Personally I think not....and we are doomed if we think so. Amazons are a fanciful story, but women have always been dependent on men, and the pretense that they are not, now institutionalized throughout American society, is one great delusion....

Southern “redneck racists” are the minority. They're not the majority in our Military, Police force, or population in general. That's just flat-out delusional.

Fair enough. Males are not a minority to females in our military, police force, or population in general.

Compare US military recruitment— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUijh-phNJY

to Chinese military recruitment— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_qr-4AKM18

and to Russian military recruitment— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqek78JXckw

Is "wokeness" helping the US military become strong compared to our competitors? I believe you would have to be delusional to think so.

 

[Gospel]

I love Spike Lee and I love his movies. But he is woke. He was the example in my head when I was thinking about how blacks are only allowed to direct if they play the woke game. He is extremely woke. Everything I have seen by and about him screams woke.

BTW, Oldboy is a Korean, not woke, film which Lee made an awful American remake of, making it woke, and thereby stupid.

Setting some confusion on my end aside (having to do with you calling Spike Lee's works both PC (Politically correct) and Woke. Where do you get the idea that Spike Lee is only doing woke movies because he is not allowed to do anything else? How I see it is, the issue Black people have gone (and are going) through in America is personally important to him, and he uses his platform to draw attention to issues and generate conversations.

The only way I can see Spike Lee being at all inhibited from doing non-woke productions is solely due to his personal beliefs colliding with the current/past climate in America towards Black people. In other words, if there were no racial issues Spike Lee probably would be doing non-race-related movies (or as you may put it, non-woke movies).

Again, where is your proof that Spike or any Black director for that matter is "only allowed to direct if they play the woke game" or to phrase the question on my terms, where is your proof that Spike or Any Black director is doing woke movies they aren't personally invested in? And by personally invested I specifically mean the movie is the director's personal expression.

I'm convinced Spike Lee is only doing the movies he wants to do. He's so famous he's not constrained by anything. I'm sure the reason he is so focused on race is because it's such an important topic to him. He's like the pope of woke. Why would he want to make films about anything else? And that's the point. It's significant that the most prominent American black director today (my opinion) is fanatically woke. Why did he and not anyone black and not woke rise to that level of prominence?

Lot's of people want to be directors. There's a selection bias. If this selection bias is systematic it will pull in a direction. The direction the selection bias pulls toward is interesting. It's interesting that black directors not interested in making films about racism aren't. For whatever reason. Selection biases can operate on many levels and for many reasons. But if something consistently happens there's a reason.

Have you seen the movie Friday? Do you think its plot is about racism? What about Boys in the hood? Is that a movie about racism? What about the movie Belly? Was that about racism? All of these are Black Directors so there are going to be what I'd like to call elements of "blackness" in the movie (no shit). Are you sure you're not misinterpreting some elements of the black culture in movies as "woke"?

 

[Gospel]

Southern “redneck racists” are the minority. They're not the majority in our Military, Police force, or population in general. That's just flat-out delusional.

Fair enough. Males are not a minority to females in our military, police force, or population in general.

Compare US military recruitment— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUijh-phNJY

to Chinese military recruitment— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_qr-4AKM18

and to Russian military recruitment— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqek78JXckw

Is "wokeness" is helping the US military become strong compared to our competitors? I believe you would have to be delusional to think so.

I made no mention about wokeness nice try.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'm convinced Spike Lee is only doing the movies he wants to do. He's so famous he's not constrained by anything. I'm sure the reason he is so focused on race is because it's such an important topic to him. He's like the pope of woke. Why would he want to make films about anything else? And that's the point. It's significant that the most prominent American black director today (my opinion) is fanatically woke. Why did he and not anyone black and not woke rise to that level of prominence?

Lot's of people want to be directors. There's a selection bias. If this selection bias is systematic it will pull in a direction. The direction the selection bias pulls toward is interesting. It's interesting that black directors not interested in making films about racism aren't. For whatever reason. Selection biases can operate on many levels and for many reasons. But if something consistently happens there's a reason.

Have you seen the movie Friday? Do you think its plot is about racism? What about Boys in the hood? Is that a movie about racism? What about the movie Belly? Was that about racism? All of these are Black Directors so there are going to be what I'd like to call elements of "blackness" in the movie (no shit). Are you sure you're not misinterpreting some elements of the black culture in movies as "woke"?

I never claimed there were none. Finding examples doesn't disprove my hypothesis.

 

[Gospel]

For the record DrZoidberg, I agree with your overall premise that there exists a selection bias, or as I'd put it, gatekeepers limiting access for Balck Directors. This has been going on long before the "woke" era so I don't care for including "wokeness" in the debate. My assertion is that regardless of said selection bias, Black Directors are making movies they want to make. Do you think it possible that just maybe the sort of movies Black Directors want to make is part of the reason why selection bias still exists?

I mean at first, it was you're black? NO! Now it's like, ok but....

Dousing the issue with "wokeness" is where our roads split DrZoidberg. Also, it's not as crazy as it used to be. More examples,

Waiting To Exhale - Black Director - Not about being Woke
Nowhere to Run (1989 film) - Black Director - Not about being Woke. In fact, the characters were white people in Rural Texas.

I can name a few more but I'm at work and going off memory. Not to mention there are films I haven't watched or heard of. Another thing here is, you're going to see a lot of "woke" stuff in Black Films because there are real issues in the black community. Now I feel like I need to say the following for the All Lives Matter crowd, every community has its issues.

 

[Gospel]

I'm convinced Spike Lee is only doing the movies he wants to do. He's so famous he's not constrained by anything. I'm sure the reason he is so focused on race is because it's such an important topic to him. He's like the pope of woke. Why would he want to make films about anything else? And that's the point. It's significant that the most prominent American black director today (my opinion) is fanatically woke. Why did he and not anyone black and not woke rise to that level of prominence?

Lot's of people want to be directors. There's a selection bias. If this selection bias is systematic it will pull in a direction. The direction the selection bias pulls toward is interesting. It's interesting that black directors not interested in making films about racism aren't. For whatever reason. Selection biases can operate on many levels and for many reasons. But if something consistently happens there's a reason.

Have you seen the movie Friday? Do you think its plot is about racism? What about Boys in the hood? Is that a movie about racism? What about the movie Belly? Was that about racism? All of these are Black Directors so there are going to be what I'd like to call elements of "blackness" in the movie (no shit). Are you sure you're not misinterpreting some elements of the black culture in movies as "woke"?

I never claimed there were none. Finding examples doesn't disprove my hypothesis.

Ok so you can use Spike Lee as an example and I can't use any examples. Selection Bias is going to hurt your chances of having an unbias opinion, sir.

 

[Gospel]

It also doesn't help your case that you aren't even considering the currently most successful Black Director - Tyler Perry. He bypassed the gatekeepers and became a gatekeeper himself.