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Woman to inseminate herself as 'performance art', Australian taxpayer foots the bill.

All I seem to be able to glean from all this is that Metaphor wants to censor and define what "art" is.

So much for free speech and expression.

Hell, if I had the hardware for it, I think I might make a public art exhibition/performance of getting myself knocked up, too.
 
All I seem to be able to glean from all this is that Metaphor wants to censor and define what "art" is.

So much for free speech and expression.

Hell, if I had the hardware for it, I think I might make a public art exhibition/performance of getting myself knocked up, too.

Then that would be plagiarism.

Nowhere does Metaphor say he thinks art should be censored. And he knows he's not in the position to censor art anyway, were he so inclined.

And we all get to define what art is to some extent. It's a matter of assigning value. If I write something and call it a poem, I don't expect anyone to give a shit about it, or to value it just because I do.
 
All I seem to be able to glean from all this is that Metaphor wants to censor and define what "art" is.

So much for free speech and expression.

Hell, if I had the hardware for it, I think I might make a public art exhibition/performance of getting myself knocked up, too.

Then that would be plagiarism.

Nowhere does Metaphor say he thinks art should be censored. And he knows he's not in the position to censor art anyway, were he so inclined.
Yeah, my understanding from all this is that Metaphor just wants to feel miserable and angry all the time.
 
All I seem to be able to glean from all this is that Metaphor wants to censor and define what "art" is.

So much for free speech and expression.

Hell, if I had the hardware for it, I think I might make a public art exhibition/performance of getting myself knocked up, too.

Then that would be plagiarism.

Nowhere does Metaphor say he thinks art should be censored. And he knows he's not in the position to censor art anyway, were he so inclined.

And we all get to define what art is to some extent. It's a matter of assigning value. If I write something and call it a poem, I don't expect anyone to give a shit about it, or to value it just because I do.

I don't think I can agree with any of these statements.

First, I will have made no claim to originality, though I will guarantee that while mildly derivative, it would have it's own unique merits as a work.

Second, he clearly does believe that the government, in whatever capacity that they fund "art", ought not fund this 'installation'.

Third, while we all have a right to decide something IS art, nobody has the power to decide for everyone else what is not art. If you write something and call it a poem, I have grounds to say 'that's a pretty shitty poem [in my estimation]', or even ask 'by what metric is that a poem,' but I have no grounds to say 'that is not a poem' other than by what metric you give me, if you give me any.
 
To my mind, the value of art today is not determined by the talent of the artists but the competition amongst rich people to acquire art pieces. Someone paid a large amount of money for a Banksy*, now all the rich "art collectors" want to get a Banksy which causes the prices to skyrocket. Banksy pieces that languished ignored in dusty corners prior to the first piece being sold now goes for tens of thousands. This is just people who insist on buying the latest fashion, not true art aficionados.

* Banksy used here as a metaphor for any artist.
 
First, I will have made no claim to originality, though I will guarantee that while mildly derivative, it would have it's own unique merits as a work.

A thing might be unoriginal but still not plagiarism. More importantly, would it have occurred to you (if you had the hardware, that is) to consider "getting knocked up" and using the event as a performance of art were it not for the precedent set by this artist? It is quite a unique concept, as far as I know. If the idea came to you because of this specific artist, and would probably not have occurred to you otherwise, then we might safely say that you copied the work. I suppose you could vary the details of the execution, but the "artiness" of this work, in my view, is not constituted so much by execution as it is by conception, intention, and social impact. I suppose you could do the same thing with a different intention and wind up with satire.

Second, he clearly does believe that the government, in whatever capacity that they fund "art", ought not fund this 'installation'.

I don't know Metaphor, but it's possible he doesn't think any art should be funded by tax dollars. I am uncomfortable with (while not opposed to) art being supported by taxes, because I have little trust in the people charged with the task of deciding which works ought to be publicly funded. I don't care for the idea of a genius living in obscurity while some mediocre (or worse) charlatan lives high on the taxpayer's dime. I think patronage is a good tradition. Even if a patron chooses to fund the work of a moron, it's the patron's money.

If Metaphor is okay with symphony orchestras, auditoriums for other stage artists, museums, or various other venues for art, being paid for in part by taxes, then there might be a lack of consistency in him lodging a complaint about the performance in question being funded by taxes, only because (as he has not contradicted) art is subjective, and people value it vastly differently. He would not be out of bounds at all were he to complain about the work itself, though, and deride it to his heart's content. One person's right to consume and value something does not get in the way of another person's right to ignore it and hold it in contempt.

Third, while we all have a right to decide something IS art, nobody has the power to decide for everyone else what is not art. If you write something and call it a poem, I have grounds to say 'that's a pretty shitty poem [in my estimation]', or even ask 'by what metric is that a poem,' but I have no grounds to say 'that is not a poem' other than by what metric you give me, if you give me any.

I think I agree with you. I believe that whether something is or isn't art (plastic, poetry, performance, whatever) is decided by the wish and intention of the person or persons who performs or creates it. If Sally puts a rock in her mouth, spits it into the catbox, rolls it around, takes it out and places it on top of a piece of construction paper and calls that "art", then art is what it is. The only point of contention then is whether it has any value (to others, since by calling it art we know it has value to Sally). What constitutes value, and how much of it, if any, there is, will be open to discussion.

Naturally, people can discuss whether something ought to be called art or not until the cows come home; but I prefer to avoid those conversations, as I think they are abortive.
 
I have a patent application pending for the term art-ificial insemination. Just in case anyone else gets any smart ideas.
 
Flashback: May 4, 1979, Chicago, IL... Artist Joy Poe staged a realistic rape (with herself as 'victim') during a show opening at Artemisia Gallery.

I can't find an article directly concerning it, but there are quite a few references to it if one googles 'Joy Poe Artist rape'.

Yeah, kinda created an uproar at the time and for years afterwards.

Two thoughts:

1. Was Joy Poe's "art" publicly funded? I think that makes a huge difference. You should be able to do anything and call it art, but when you expect your activities to be funded by hard-working taxpayers (like most posters on here), there should be some standards.

2. I thought that Emma "Mattress Girl" Sulkowitz, despite being nutty and a misandrist, was at least original. I guess not.
 
I'm not sure what this is doing in 'politics'.
You do not think allocation of public funds is a political issue? If that's not a political issue, I wonder what would be.

Fascinating. Modern Art has been pushing the boundaries and causing shocks for at least a hundred years.
Modern art has been silly for decades, if not a hundred years, yes. On their own dime they should be able to do what they want.
 
Two thoughts:

1. Was Joy Poe's "art" publicly funded? I think that makes a huge difference. You should be able to do anything and call it art, but when you expect your activities to be funded by hard-working taxpayers (like most posters on here), there should be some standards.

Was she expecting government money or was she chosen by a group that received a grant to promote art?

2. I thought that Emma "Mattress Girl" Sulkowitz, despite being nutty and a misandrist, was at least original. I guess not.

Please leave your hobby horses outside the front door. They tend to shit all over the place.
 
Sure it is.
Govt subsidies are different from patronage. They aren't commissioning a piece. They are encouraging art in general
But there still has to exist some selection criteria, lest they end up with having to fund everybody capable of producing bodily waste products.
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I agree with Chuck McGill. It is a sick joke.


Pretty soon, I am sure Australia will be funding Hoboken squat cobbler. :rolleyes:


On the other hand, all this could lead to backdoor (no pun intended) UBI. Even though I am sure Andrew Yang would have preferred a less disgusting way to implement it.
 
Artists are people too, Loren.

But they are not special people. They are not some delicate geniuses that deserve access to taxpayer moneys just for existing and producing bodily fluids.

You're right; There should be a universal basic income so that anyone can dedicate their time to producing art, (or just bodily fluids) without fear of hunger or homelessness.
 
For example, a mere 1964 replica of Duchamp's 1917 original urinal piece sold for $1.7 million in 1999. And Mark Quinn's blood-filled head piece went for £1.5 million. Even a photo of a plastic crucifix in piss is worth $150,000.00. One of Andy Warhol's urine oxidations went for $3.4 million in 2015. So that's clearly top art that is. You can literally count up how top it is. I'm surprised a person as artistically discerning as you didn't realise.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
P.T. Barnum

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
H.L. Mencken

And not only American, of course.
 
Expecting a measure to be valid (i.e. complete) is not absurd.

Measures can be valid without being perfect. Per-capita GDP is a valid measure of material standard of living in a country but it is incomplete.

If people are unaware of what they value in total?

I do not understand your question. You cannot be mistaken about what you think you think.

So why is it desirable for art but not roads?

There are facts of the matter about roads that are not present for art. Or, perhaps in a more roundabout way, the facts of the matter about art is the value it brings to people, and only they can discern that value.

WTF are you on about? I did not complain about sunlight or transparency.

You suggested that the public might be fully aware of funding decisions of the kind in the OP. I do not believe the public is aware.
 
If it was publicly funded or not makes no difference.

Nobody, not you, and certainly not the government, get to decide what art is and is not of merit. If money is given to an artist to produce art, the thing you get is the art you spent money on*.

Now, if anyone here wants to go flinging shit and such on the government's dime, and you are capable of producing art such that the government gives you a grant to produce your art, sure. Do that. But I doubt you have the chops to get selected in the first place.

It is an authoritarian fascist viewpoint to then gatekeep what art is an acceptable product for the money. It is controlling free speech. The government may not decide what is and is not art. Nor may Derec. Nor may Metaphor. It is not your right, or your privilege.

If you don't like artists creating art of jizz, shit, and piss, too fucking bad.

*There are exceptions that exist in the realm of commission, insofar as something may be requested as a condition for payment. But then you are paying for a specific work; what you get is a collaborative piece, which is partially your art, and you get to decide what you get. You also get to pay an assload more.
 
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