braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
Hey good to see you, glad to hear that overall you're doing well!
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Working out/Testosterone Levels/Therapy/Steroids/Thoughts?
- Thread starter Godless Raven
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No actual studies on this, but I know a couple of guys about my age (48) who have had iron-related issues when using SERMs. Old school stuff such as clomid or nolvadex, not so much, but some with (I think) armidex and letrozole. Will ask if you are curious.
Godless Raven
Member
Hey Eric,
Yeah, for sure, please ask. I'm currently only using Nolvadex, but I'm going to be switching to Nolva + Clomid + HCG when I come off. I used Armidex for about 30 days, but that was a few months back.
If you could find out whether they knew what caused the iron issue, that would be great!
Thanks!
Okay, one guy was not honest with his doc, so did not have appropriate testing issues run, largely because he is an utter dumb ass.
The other guy used Letrozle which is not a Serm. So from what I can track down, I cannot pin point anything. Some orals, due the effect on the liver, can cause anemia, but this is more common in women than in men. Not unheard of in men, mind you. One of the reasons why I always avoided orals, far too many sides.
Godless Raven
Member
Thanks Eric!
I've never tried Letrozole, it's too extreme for me. So...if you're right about orals, I may know what the culprit was. There was some Stanozolol tabs for about 2 months in there. That could have caused a change in my blood cells and possibly, via liver an issue with the iron. Too bad, they work really well
Thanks Eric!
I've never tried Letrozole, it's too extreme for me. So...if you're right about orals, I may know what the culprit was. There was some Stanozolol tabs for about 2 months in there. That could have caused a change in my blood cells and possibly, via liver an issue with the iron. Too bad, they work really well
Yeah, but harsh on the liver. Why I pretty much always avoid orals.
Godless Raven
Member
So the Iron tabs that were making it feel like I was getting kicked in the stomach for an hour, three times a day...is NO LONGER A PROBLEM!!! Whoot whoot!
If you know anybody that has bad tummy aches from Iron tabs advise them to try it with a half a glass of high pulp orange juice. I do that 3 times a day. Sometimes just a shot glass of OJ, but always high pulp.
Now I have zero pain and feel SO much better with my iron levels proper.
For liver recovery, Hepa Strong, which has a bunch of ingredients that detox and/or are healthy for the liver. It has good feedback overall.
I was just noticing today that at the age 44, I can run faster, I'm stronger, I can jump faster, have a better sex life than when I was 22. And I was pretty decent at 22. That would probably be my favorite year or around when I was my "hottest".
Oh, I've started wearing new sterling grey color contacts. I love how it looks. I only wear them about half the time though, because I love my big deep brown eyes too.
My diet is now about 70% super clean. I can't count it as clean because I drink coffee a few times a day with cream and sugar. Also the odd crappy energy drink.
My weight is at 209. I've lowered my cardio and increased my calories because I need to start adding mass. I'm too tall for that weight
If only I could get my damn hair back. I loved my hair.
If you know anybody that has bad tummy aches from Iron tabs advise them to try it with a half a glass of high pulp orange juice. I do that 3 times a day. Sometimes just a shot glass of OJ, but always high pulp.
Now I have zero pain and feel SO much better with my iron levels proper.
For liver recovery, Hepa Strong, which has a bunch of ingredients that detox and/or are healthy for the liver. It has good feedback overall.
I was just noticing today that at the age 44, I can run faster, I'm stronger, I can jump faster, have a better sex life than when I was 22. And I was pretty decent at 22. That would probably be my favorite year or around when I was my "hottest".
Oh, I've started wearing new sterling grey color contacts. I love how it looks. I only wear them about half the time though, because I love my big deep brown eyes too.
My diet is now about 70% super clean. I can't count it as clean because I drink coffee a few times a day with cream and sugar. Also the odd crappy energy drink.
My weight is at 209. I've lowered my cardio and increased my calories because I need to start adding mass. I'm too tall for that weight
If only I could get my damn hair back. I loved my hair.
Godless Raven
Member
Update: Body weight is at about 219, I feel good with my size, would like to lose a little more fat and add just a bit more muscle in every area. I am not doing cardio enough, only twice a week, but it's starting to get nice outside so I am going to add a jog to my morning and walk the dog in the evening.
I said right from the beginning that I would tell the good and the bad because it's important to know everything that comes with this stuff.
So here goes...I decided to increase the amount of test to about 120% of what I was using. My lab results started getting really funky, even with iron supplements, my iron was really low. My blood was "as thick as molasses". I was diagnosed with Polycythemia. I have an enormous amount of red blood cells (although they are tiny) and I have to be careful because it can cause serious high blood pressure problems. This is my own fault for increasing the amount I was taking and for not taking some time off. Everything I did up until about the 1 year point was all good.
Luckily, this is fixable, now that I know what caused it and discussed it with my doctor. I'm going to be going off of the test for at least a couple of months, maybe longer (you're supposed to go off for half as long as you were on, but I doubt I will that long). I'll be doing an extensive PCT (post cycle therapy) program with Nolvadex, Clomid and HCG. These each suppress estrogen and increase natural test production in different ways and to varying degrees. I'll post how it's going.
I know it sounds bad, and it is...it was a stupid mistake, but one of the risks you take if you take test.
I thought that the Polycythemia was independent of what I was doing, but my wife researched it and there is a bunch of legit sources out there clearing saying there is a direct link to TRT (test replacement therapy) and Polycythemia. So it is what it is.
I still wouldn't trade anything I've done other than I wouldn't have increased the amounts and I would have went off about 4 or 5 months ago instead of now. It's important to be smart and stay smart while doing something of this nature. I am significantly more healthy right now than before I started this...significantly. I have a near complete body transformation. I have the sex life of a 20 year old. I feel fast and strong. But...the price will probably be a few years off the end. A price I think worth paying for because I will enjoy what I have much more while I'm here.
I said right from the beginning that I would tell the good and the bad because it's important to know everything that comes with this stuff.
So here goes...I decided to increase the amount of test to about 120% of what I was using. My lab results started getting really funky, even with iron supplements, my iron was really low. My blood was "as thick as molasses". I was diagnosed with Polycythemia. I have an enormous amount of red blood cells (although they are tiny) and I have to be careful because it can cause serious high blood pressure problems. This is my own fault for increasing the amount I was taking and for not taking some time off. Everything I did up until about the 1 year point was all good.
Luckily, this is fixable, now that I know what caused it and discussed it with my doctor. I'm going to be going off of the test for at least a couple of months, maybe longer (you're supposed to go off for half as long as you were on, but I doubt I will that long). I'll be doing an extensive PCT (post cycle therapy) program with Nolvadex, Clomid and HCG. These each suppress estrogen and increase natural test production in different ways and to varying degrees. I'll post how it's going.
I know it sounds bad, and it is...it was a stupid mistake, but one of the risks you take if you take test.
I thought that the Polycythemia was independent of what I was doing, but my wife researched it and there is a bunch of legit sources out there clearing saying there is a direct link to TRT (test replacement therapy) and Polycythemia. So it is what it is.
I still wouldn't trade anything I've done other than I wouldn't have increased the amounts and I would have went off about 4 or 5 months ago instead of now. It's important to be smart and stay smart while doing something of this nature. I am significantly more healthy right now than before I started this...significantly. I have a near complete body transformation. I have the sex life of a 20 year old. I feel fast and strong. But...the price will probably be a few years off the end. A price I think worth paying for because I will enjoy what I have much more while I'm here.
Godless Raven
Member
New update...
My weight is around 218lbs. I feel great, other than I still have some belly and chest fat I'd like to get rid of (just haven't adjusted my diet enough to do it). My Polythycemia is still an issue. It's apparently not the same as traditional Poly, where your bone marrow is producing too much red blood cells, it's my kidney's, due to an rampant increase in EPO. Part of the reason it hasn't gone away yet, is because I haven't quit test cold turkey, I lowered the amounts over the past months. Partially so I wouldn't crash afterwards, and partially because I really, really hate the idea of not feeling the benefits. I've felt over a decade younger, maybe two. I lost all the weight I needed to lose.
Just last night the wife and I went to a GnR concert and we were parked almost 2 miles away from the venue. I told her to wait at the doors while I ran to get the car, and I literally ran the entire way at full speed without heavy breathing. Got there and realized she had the keys in her purse, so I jogged back, still no heavy breathing, then ran full tilt back to the car and only then was I panting and out of breath. I now have to deal with the reality that every passing month I'm going to be able to do that less and less (to a point).
So far though, it hasn't been horrible. My run last night proved to me that I got myself in to good enough shape that it's not like I'm starting off at being almost 300lbs again. I'm not as strong as I was, but I still feel stronger than I normally would. I've been taking recovery meds to get my normal test levels back to normal. HCG, Clomiphine and Nolvadex regularly. In addition I take HepaStrong for my liver and will be for a couple of months. I believe the Clomiphine/HCG is increasing my test levels enough that it's slowing down the decrease which is why the Polycythemia is still present and I still feel super human. It's also completely reversed the testicular atrophy that occurred after a year (at no point did that effect my sex drive or sperm production, the test increased both, although I did add a half a pill of Cialis once a week and the combination was phenomenal).
As always, I want to present both the positive and negative in my posts, so I'm not misleading in anyway. This isn't something to take lightly if you're considering doing it. There are legit risks.
Here's the tally:
Positives - Increased energy, increased positive mood (euphoria), increased confidence, increased libido, increased physical strength/stamina/speed/agility/jumping and running abilities, rapid recovery from any exercise or muscular/connective tissue injuries, weight loss in addition to that I would have got from doing the exact same diet and cardio without it (ditto for muscular growth)
Negatives - Polythycemia (which can lead to heart attack or stroke!), my body has been eating my iron storages like a starving savage so I'm anemic and require daily iron tablets that can be hard on the stomach, additional body hair (I got a few on my back, not a lot, although on a positive my face grew in a few patch spots and now is full and I grew a bit more on my chest and tummy and it actually looks better), occasional acne, it's addictive...not chemically...psychologically.
These are just my personal experiences. I know other people that have had zero side effects and all good and some that haven't gotten nearly as good of results but got sides. I believe the majority of my potential side effects were reduced because of other things I took along with them and because I researched how to take it from as many fields of expertise as the internet has including medical journals. But even with all of that, I still was genetically predisposed to get Polythycemia (only about 30% of test users are at risk) and anemia (an even lower percent below 5 are at risk for this) and so even by doing it as smart as I personally could there are serious consequences to consider. I am not a preacher though, and I have no regrets myself so if someone does consider doing it, my recommendation is do it through a doctor that will test you regularly and have honest open dialogues. My doctor and I now talk very open and honestly and he's been fascinated watching me as a case study and has even told me he's considering doing it himself because we're around the same age and he wants to lose weight/feel younger.
I hope you fine fuckers are all doing really well. I miss you guys.
My weight is around 218lbs. I feel great, other than I still have some belly and chest fat I'd like to get rid of (just haven't adjusted my diet enough to do it). My Polythycemia is still an issue. It's apparently not the same as traditional Poly, where your bone marrow is producing too much red blood cells, it's my kidney's, due to an rampant increase in EPO. Part of the reason it hasn't gone away yet, is because I haven't quit test cold turkey, I lowered the amounts over the past months. Partially so I wouldn't crash afterwards, and partially because I really, really hate the idea of not feeling the benefits. I've felt over a decade younger, maybe two. I lost all the weight I needed to lose.
Just last night the wife and I went to a GnR concert and we were parked almost 2 miles away from the venue. I told her to wait at the doors while I ran to get the car, and I literally ran the entire way at full speed without heavy breathing. Got there and realized she had the keys in her purse, so I jogged back, still no heavy breathing, then ran full tilt back to the car and only then was I panting and out of breath. I now have to deal with the reality that every passing month I'm going to be able to do that less and less (to a point).
So far though, it hasn't been horrible. My run last night proved to me that I got myself in to good enough shape that it's not like I'm starting off at being almost 300lbs again. I'm not as strong as I was, but I still feel stronger than I normally would. I've been taking recovery meds to get my normal test levels back to normal. HCG, Clomiphine and Nolvadex regularly. In addition I take HepaStrong for my liver and will be for a couple of months. I believe the Clomiphine/HCG is increasing my test levels enough that it's slowing down the decrease which is why the Polycythemia is still present and I still feel super human. It's also completely reversed the testicular atrophy that occurred after a year (at no point did that effect my sex drive or sperm production, the test increased both, although I did add a half a pill of Cialis once a week and the combination was phenomenal).
As always, I want to present both the positive and negative in my posts, so I'm not misleading in anyway. This isn't something to take lightly if you're considering doing it. There are legit risks.
Here's the tally:
Positives - Increased energy, increased positive mood (euphoria), increased confidence, increased libido, increased physical strength/stamina/speed/agility/jumping and running abilities, rapid recovery from any exercise or muscular/connective tissue injuries, weight loss in addition to that I would have got from doing the exact same diet and cardio without it (ditto for muscular growth)
Negatives - Polythycemia (which can lead to heart attack or stroke!), my body has been eating my iron storages like a starving savage so I'm anemic and require daily iron tablets that can be hard on the stomach, additional body hair (I got a few on my back, not a lot, although on a positive my face grew in a few patch spots and now is full and I grew a bit more on my chest and tummy and it actually looks better), occasional acne, it's addictive...not chemically...psychologically.
These are just my personal experiences. I know other people that have had zero side effects and all good and some that haven't gotten nearly as good of results but got sides. I believe the majority of my potential side effects were reduced because of other things I took along with them and because I researched how to take it from as many fields of expertise as the internet has including medical journals. But even with all of that, I still was genetically predisposed to get Polythycemia (only about 30% of test users are at risk) and anemia (an even lower percent below 5 are at risk for this) and so even by doing it as smart as I personally could there are serious consequences to consider. I am not a preacher though, and I have no regrets myself so if someone does consider doing it, my recommendation is do it through a doctor that will test you regularly and have honest open dialogues. My doctor and I now talk very open and honestly and he's been fascinated watching me as a case study and has even told me he's considering doing it himself because we're around the same age and he wants to lose weight/feel younger.
I hope you fine fuckers are all doing really well. I miss you guys.