Would you attend an affirmative consent education class?

[Metaphor]

This post came about from a story about a young man who was invited to an 'affirmative consent' education class via Facebook. Rather insulted, he posted a protest photo with a card saying 'this is not what a rapist looks like'. I cannot find the story now -- I will update later with a link.

Without any sarcasm from me (which may seem unexpected, but if there were a cosmic bank that gave me credit for all the things I think and restrain myself from saying, I'd make Bill Gates look like a Dickensian pauper), would you attend such a class? What would you think of the person who had invited you? Would you say anything to them?

I would not attend such a class, because I know how not to be a rapist.

Are there accidental rapists? Men who didn't realise they didn't have consent, but thought they did, so they accidentally raped someone?

If there aren't any accidental rapists, it seems to me that this class is like attending a class on how not to murder people. Which I also know how to do.

EDIT: the original article

 

[Trausti]

I find all this fascinating, in the sense that in the 1960's and 1970's, the left pushed for a sexual revolution and free love. Now the left has become the new Puritans. Where Evangelical boys and girls leave space for the holy spirit, lefty college couples leave space for the social justice commissar. Totally wack, dude.

 

[Arctish]

I find all this fascinating, in the sense that in the 1960's and 1970's, the left pushed for a sexual revolution and free love. Now the left has become the new Puritans. Where Evangelical boys and girls leave space for the holy spirit, lefty college couples leave space for the social justice commissar. Totally wack, dude.

Free love in the 60s and 70s meant sex free of constraint imposed by religious dogma or third parties, and free of shame. It did not mean being free to fuck other people without concern for their wellbeing or regard for their wishes. Respect for your fellow human beings was an integral part of the movement.

 

[Trausti]

I find all this fascinating, in the sense that in the 1960's and 1970's, the left pushed for a sexual revolution and free love. Now the left has become the new Puritans. Where Evangelical boys and girls leave space for the holy spirit, lefty college couples leave space for the social justice commissar. Totally wack, dude.

Free love in the 60s and 70s meant sex free of constraint imposed by religious dogma or third parties, and free of shame. It did not mean being free to fuck other people without concern for their wellbeing or regard for their wishes. Respect for your fellow human beings was an integral part of the movement.

So respect means stopping and getting consent every 10 minutes? Do you do that with your mate, rapist? http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/24651/

 

[Arctish]

Free love in the 60s and 70s meant sex free of constraint imposed by religious dogma or third parties, and free of shame. It did not mean being free to fuck other people without concern for their wellbeing or regard for their wishes. Respect for your fellow human beings was an integral part of the movement.

So respect means stopping and getting consent every 10 minutes? Do you do that with your mate, rapist? http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/24651/

Yes, I do, so keep your rapist label to yourself. My husband likes it when we tell each other how much we're enjoying our Close Encounters of the Married Kind.

 

[Jokodo]

Free love in the 60s and 70s meant sex free of constraint imposed by religious dogma or third parties, and free of shame. It did not mean being free to fuck other people without concern for their wellbeing or regard for their wishes. Respect for your fellow human beings was an integral part of the movement.

So respect means stopping and getting consent every 10 minutes? Do you do that with your mate, rapist? http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/24651/

If you haven't received any confirmation that she likes what you're doing for ten minutes, you don't need to stop in order to find out she doesn't.

 

[bigfield]

Since when does affirmative consent mean verbal/express consent?

I was under the impression that affirmative consent equated to explicit consent, which includes non-verbal cues.

A verbal consent standard is simply a joke.


ETA: You're such a card, Bilby.

 

[bilby]

Since when does affirmative consent mean verbal/express consent?

I was under the impression that affirmative consent equated to explicit consent, which includes non-verbal cues.

A verbal consent standard is simply a joke.

You don't say.

 

[Jaecp]

So respect means stopping and getting consent every 10 minutes? Do you do that with your mate, rapist? http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/24651/

If you haven't received any confirmation that she likes what you're doing for ten minutes, you don't need to stop in order to find out she doesn't.

Hey man, if I need to slow down, take a breath, and talk every 10 minutes that really gets in the way of the 30 minute long sessions of me grinding into my lady without us changing positions that I know she fucking adores

#Truth

 

[bigfield]

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB967

An affirmative consent standard in the determination of whether consent was given by both parties to sexual activity. “Affirmative consent” means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity. Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time. The existence of a dating relationship between the persons involved, or the fact of past sexual relations between them, should never by itself be assumed to be an indicator of consent.

The underlined sentence does not say that non-verbal consent does not satisfy the affirmative consent standard.

 

[Jarhyn]

NOPE.

Mostly because I do not think any of these SJWs who echo buzzwords like 'affirmative consent' have any idea about the actual REAL ethics of consent, why it is important, or even WHEN it is important.

I have been 'raped' in more than one way. I have been abused, physically and verbally, predated upon while intoxicated (I was 20 or 21 at the time. I can't rember exactly, but I think it was 20, though I might has well have been 16 for all I was capable of consenting to it, affirmatively, preemptively, after the fact or any which way). I've had a broom shoved... Well, it didn't go INTO my ass, but it wasnt because the guy wasn't trying; he just missed and I found help before ithe situation could be pushed further. I've been mugged (unsuccessfully, but I consider this as quite a bit worse than the broom). All those situations, I did not consent to. I do not appreciate them, and probably never will other than as things that helped me become the person I am today.

That said, I HAVE also had unconsensual sex with myself, and also knowingly put myself in situations that have caused me to be 'raped' by others. This may seem like an odd concept, perhaps even implausible, but I am quite confident that they knew perfectly well that I certainly did not want to participate while it was happening, and even throughout the experiences I had no external help, I did know I DECIDED to make it happen and that I would appreciate that it had after the fact. That said, I find THESE experiences to be ones which make me quite happy to have arranged. The thing is, affirmative consent as a legal standard is gross, and being taught that it is the only acceptable form of consent is equally gross. I have the right to do with my body and mind as I please, so long as it doesn't harm anyone, and I have been careful to only do things to myself in a way that make me more capable of enjoying my life, and more capable of understanding and improving the lives of others as they would see their lives be improved. While I will CERTAINLY not say that it would be true of anyone else, the experiences I have forced myself into having HAVE shaped me into someone better than I was. The important part is to leave the world a better place than you found it, and while in most (almost all) cases involving others that DOES require consent, that consent need not always be 'affirmative', and the fact of the matter is, it is a disgustingly evil thing to gamble on such things, and I don't rightly think there are more than maybe a few thousand other people alive today who would be capable of such things short of taking said disgustingly obscene gambling.

But as I said, I doubt anyone teaching a course about 'affirmative' consent will acknowledge such complexities or make such concessions in the discussion. It would end up as me being forced to watch them ejaculate verbal cowshit for a few hours every week and then being forced to say it was true. And I suppose I would survive, but it would be utterly humiliating, and being forced to burden a grade that society would see as marking me as a rapist unless I play along and be a good little boy and do and say as I'm told even if it makes me feel icky inside? Well, I'm honestly unsure whether or not forcing kids to sit through that kind of garbage is itself ethically better or worse than rape.

*and no, I am not talking roleplay. Oftentimes such experiences for me require drugs, but not always, and an explanation of how that can even be a thing is probably a thing best left to case study.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I find all this fascinating, in the sense that in the 1960's and 1970's, the left pushed for a sexual revolution and free love. Now the left has become the new Puritans. Where Evangelical boys and girls leave space for the holy spirit, lefty college couples leave space for the social justice commissar. Totally wack, dude.

Total whack response, because in the 1960s and 1970s the push also included gaining consent and recognizing bad situations you were in where you didn't want to have sex and how to say and recognize 'no".

Yeah this is the left.

Also I assume you are celibate because you are not following the dogmas of the left. Or do you believe in forced sex without consent?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Since when does affirmative consent mean verbal/express consent?

I was under the impression that affirmative consent equated to explicit consent, which includes non-verbal cues.

A verbal consent standard is simply a joke.


ETA: You're such a card, Bilby.

I get verbal consent all the time. Would you like to _______? Can I stick _____? etc...

 

[laughing dog]

To address the OP, now I would not because my partner insures there is always affirmative consent on her part. When I was a young horn dog, I think I would have in the hopes of improving my chances.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This post came about from a story about a young man who was invited to an 'affirmative consent' education class via Facebook. Rather insulted, he posted a protest photo with a card saying 'this is not what a rapist looks like'. I cannot find the story now -- I will update later with a link.

Without any sarcasm from me (which may seem unexpected, but if there were a cosmic bank that gave me credit for all the things I think and restrain myself from saying, I'd make Bill Gates look like a Dickensian pauper), would you attend such a class? What would you think of the person who had invited you? Would you say anything to them?

I would not attend such a class, because I know how not to be a rapist.

Are there accidental rapists? Men who didn't realise they didn't have consent, but thought they did, so they accidentally raped someone?

If there aren't any accidental rapists, it seems to me that this class is like attending a class on how not to murder people. Which I also know how to do.

EDIT: the original article

Wouldn't the opposite of having consent in this context be sexual assault instead of rape?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Without any sarcasm from me, would you attend such a class?

Instantly and without hesitation.

Because questions occur to me.

Assuming I had verbal consent at the start, is it considered continuing consent if she doesn't put down the book she's reading? What if it's a dirty book?

But mostly, i'd take the course because I could go home and insist that we were assigned homework.

 

[Metaphor]

This post came about from a story about a young man who was invited to an 'affirmative consent' education class via Facebook. Rather insulted, he posted a protest photo with a card saying 'this is not what a rapist looks like'. I cannot find the story now -- I will update later with a link.

Without any sarcasm from me (which may seem unexpected, but if there were a cosmic bank that gave me credit for all the things I think and restrain myself from saying, I'd make Bill Gates look like a Dickensian pauper), would you attend such a class? What would you think of the person who had invited you? Would you say anything to them?

I would not attend such a class, because I know how not to be a rapist.

Are there accidental rapists? Men who didn't realise they didn't have consent, but thought they did, so they accidentally raped someone?

If there aren't any accidental rapists, it seems to me that this class is like attending a class on how not to murder people. Which I also know how to do.

EDIT: the original article

Wouldn't the opposite of having consent in this context be sexual assault instead of rape?

In what context? Do you mean if someone is mistaken about whether they have affirmative consent? Or do you mean unconsented sexual acts other than 'penetration'?

If I grab a guy's package without his consent, I've sexually assaulted him. If I fuck him without his consent, I've raped him.

The point is, I understand both of these things. I understand what it means to not rape or sexually assault somebody, in the same way I understand how not to assault or murder somebody.

Would you attend an affirmative consent education class?

 

[Metaphor]

Just as a tally, there appear to be two 'no's, two (probably facetious) 'yes because it may aid in getting some'.

So far, nobody has admitted that they don't understand what consent is.

Also, where are the ladies at? Would you attend an affirmative consent education class to educate yourself on how not be a sexual assaulter-slash-rapist?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Just as a tally, there appear to be two 'no's, two (probably facetious) 'yes because it may aid in getting some'.

You misunderstand.
I'm not being facetious at all in my response to you.

And I doubt it would aid 'in getting some.' My wife of 28 1/2 years is wise to my clever schemes. But I would, honestly, be willing to sit through such a class, at least one session, just to be able to make the remark.

 

[Derec]

Also, where are the ladies at? Would you attend an affirmative consent education class to educate yourself on how not be a sexual assaulter-slash-rapist?

Why would they? Women are never held to these "affirmative consent" rules, just like they can have sex with a drunk guy and get him expelled.