Xmas Stuff

[Angry Floof]

Religion and the Public Square

What, if anything, has Christmas contributed to Western Civilization that could earn the respect of the secularist and hence win their grudging acquiescence in its ongoing public acknowledgment?

"...The celebration of Christmas has been a powerful teacher of the dignity of the human person."

Christians think Christmas is about the dignity of the human person. Higher Being thinks human beings are worth something - "the human race as a whole, and of each human person as an individual."

Here's the Public Discourse's take on why that ideal, along with other Christmas-related social benefits, make for a worthwhile institution that deserves a hall pass from the atheist fun police.

...As the story goes;
Born into circumstances of poverty, to a working class family of no outstanding social importance, His birth was announced not to the princes but to shepherds and His life's work and teaching was that all men are equal in their fundamental human dignity.

Read the Carson Holloway Op Ed or not. Critique his arguments as you will. But what's at the root of your problem with Christmas?

What a lovely fantasy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think Lion IRC is thanking secularism for making their religious holiday worth something.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

"Christmas" is less than one letter in one word on one page within chapters and volumes of human experience. For anyone to think that "christmas" is somehow overarchingly meaningful is to witness historical illiteracy at its most unkind.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

As the story goes;
Born into circumstances of poverty, to a working class family of no outstanding social importance, His birth was announced not to the princes but to shepherds

Ummm, that's NOT how "the story goes." His birth was somehow "announced" to three KINGS who showered him with a fortune in gold, incense and myrrh. So, while he may have been physically born into "circumstances of poverty," within days of shooting out his mom's vagina he would be given riches from KINGS that would have lasted his entire lifetime.

and His life's work and teaching was that all men are equal in their fundamental human dignity.

Uh, wrong again. Blessed are the meek, remember? Rejoice in your low position and suffering in life for it means you are blessed in heaven. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’" Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[lpetrich]

...As the story goes;
Born into circumstances of poverty, to a working class family of no outstanding social importance, His birth was announced not to the princes but to shepherds and His life's work and teaching was that all men are equal in their fundamental human dignity.

Yet another case of Jesus Christ being made in the believer's likeness. He is Nordic, he is black. He is a social worker, he is an entrepreneur. He is a pacifist, he is a fierce fighter. He is Jewish, he opposes the Jews. ...

In this case, he has a totally undistinguished background and nobody had the faintest idea of who he would become. That is the case for many well-documented high achievers in recent centuries, but it is not how the Gospels describe Jesus Christ.

Though Jesus Christ's parents lived as commoners, both Matthew and Luke trace his nominal father Joseph back to King David. Both M and L also claim that JC's biological father was not Joseph but the Holy Spirit, making Joseph his stepfather. Seems like both M and L were trying to have it both ways. There is, however, a similar story in Greek mythology where the hero Theseus had both a human biological father and a divine one. The semen from his two fathers mixed, though that was long before anyone learned of sperm cells.

Both M and L also have an annunciation. In M, an angel tells Joseph that his wife Mary is pregnant with someone who will become very great. In L, an angel tells Mary that she will become pregnant with someone who will become very great.

Both M and L also have some people visiting JC when he was born. M the wise men from the east who follow a star and who bring him expensive gifts, and L some shepherds who are told about his birth by an angel.

There is a big difference. In M, King Herod wants JC dead, and JC's parents flee with him to Egypt. In L, no such thing happens.

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JC's birth stories fit more with birth stories of a lot of legendary heroes. Someone trying to kill them in their infancy:

• King Herod vs. Jesus Christ
• Pharaoh vs. Moses
• King Kamsa vs. Krishna
• King Amulius vs. Romulus
• King Laius vs. Oedipus
• King Acrisius vs. Perseus
• Pelias vs. Jason
• Tantalus vs. Pelops
• Hera vs. Hercules
• Hera vs. Dionysus
• Hera vs. Apollo
• Kronos vs. Zeus
• The Roman Senate vs. Augustus Caesar
• Lord Voldemort vs. Harry Potter

Prophecy fulfillment is also common: Jesus Christ, Krishna, the Buddha, Zeus, Oedipus, Perseus, Romulus, King Arthur, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar, Anakin Skywalker, and Harry Potter.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous for anyone to say that God (as he is supposed to ultimately be) was "born into circumstances of poverty." Not sure how an omnicapable being is going to be in any way impacted by what his earthly "circumstances" may be--and that, of course includes his homicide/suicide/sacrifice-to-himself-to-save-us-all-from-himself-for-something-none-of-us-did gibberish.