Yet another school shooting

[laughing dog]

Numerous fatalities are being stated. We lost. That simple. The NRA won, we lost, and all of the mass murder victims are are lost.

But you know... terrorism and shit. We need to stay on top of that.

Attacking the NRA about this is wrong--the NRA's lobbying budget is small. It's just they say what tens of millions of gun owners think.

That misses two points. First, there are polls indicating that NRA members do not necessarily agree with NRA positions. Second, the NRA's fear mongering induces gun owners to over-react and to fear the worse.

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It's actually pissing me off that the media covers it. Why bother any longer? I watched a few moments of MSNBC and I'm getting the helicopter view of law enforcement vehicles driving down the road. Why? Still doing this let's dedicate every moment of the news to this for the day shit. Why! To what end?

Is Fox trotting out the teachers with guns shit again?

Yeah, a simple way to reduce such things would be to severely limit the press coverage of them.

I am not saying to censor the news--the facts are fine. Once. Don't go on and on about what happened!

Please present disinterested evidence that press coverage of school shootings helps angry youths to get a gun and kill people at school.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Seems there were signs Cruz had mental issues. It will be interesting to see how this kid got the weapons.

Because the left won't propose reasonable rules to keep guns out of the hands of crazies. Virtually all gun measures from the left go way too far and provoke a backlash that quite correctly keeps them from passing.

I would have no problem with a system that allows doctors and psychologists to report that so-and-so shouldn't be allowed firearms (akin to what we have now with doctors being able to say so-and-so shouldn't drive.) However:

1) This does not include putting their medical records on law enforcement databases.

2) There is a system where it can be challenged as improper without involving a great cost on the part of the person.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some Rightists say Cruz (the FL school shooter) was Antifa, or Muslim, or a Dreamer. Some Liberals say he was alt right. People who knew him say he was weird and depressed. His social media says he had a lot of guns and he killed small animals.

I'm going with the last two. I find those sufficient to explain a mass shooter. And they are things that you can actually check for yourself in the world of real things,

Yeah--"killed small animals" is a major, major red flag.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Bah. It's just more hand-wringing and noise until the next one. The only practical solution is to outlaw new sales of semi-auto rifles and all handguns, including spare parts. Current owners would be able to keep what they have, but not be able to sell or devise them to next of kin.

1) This would be considered a taking under the constitution. You want to budget the hundreds of billions to pay for it?

2) By the time those guns wear out new ones will come from 3D printing.

As with virtually everything from the gun-grabbers all you'll do is disarm the law abiding.

It would cut school shootings and the like but the number of people who could no longer defend themselves would probably be greater. It's just they are 1 by 1 and not more than local news.

 

[marc]

Attacking the NRA about this is wrong--the NRA's lobbying budget is small. It's just they say what tens of millions of gun owners think.

So millions of gun owners are ok with people on the terrorist watch list freely being able to buy guns?

Because the left won't propose reasonable rules to keep guns out of the hands of crazies. Virtually all gun measures from the left go way too far and provoke a backlash that quite correctly keeps them from passing.

How is universal background checks not reasonable? Can you actually give an example of an unreasonable rule that was actually proposed by legislators, and not point to fearmongering claims the NRA and other gun advocates about what they say the left is making?

 

[Malintent]

That misses two points. First, there are polls indicating that NRA members do not necessarily agree with NRA positions. Second, the NRA's fear mongering induces gun owners to over-react and to fear the worse.

- - - Updated - - -

It's actually pissing me off that the media covers it. Why bother any longer? I watched a few moments of MSNBC and I'm getting the helicopter view of law enforcement vehicles driving down the road. Why? Still doing this let's dedicate every moment of the news to this for the day shit. Why! To what end?

Is Fox trotting out the teachers with guns shit again?

Yeah, a simple way to reduce such things would be to severely limit the press coverage of them.

I am not saying to censor the news--the facts are fine. Once. Don't go on and on about what happened!

Please present disinterested evidence that press coverage of school shootings helps angry youths to get a gun and kill people at school.

OK, here: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2010/05/kids-overimitate-adults-regardless-culture

"Animals focus on getting the job done,” explains Mark Nielsen, a psychologist at the University of Queensland in Brisbane, Australia. “Humans seem to almost forget about the outcome and copy everything we see".

 

[Malintent]

So the U.S. has got the most mass shootings in the world, an opioid epidemic that's getting increasingly worse, Trump in office, a major political party that's filled with literal evil morons, increasing political polarization, Fox News, and abysmal scientific literacy.

Did I miss anything?

Global Warming causing Miami to disappear in as little as 50 years from now.
An Econo-political system that will inevitably reduce the dollar to toilet paper.
A North Korean dictator that has successfully advertised their nuclear weapons for sale to anyone that can pay

.. ya, a few things.

 

[Malintent]

Bah. It's just more hand-wringing and noise until the next one. The only practical solution is to outlaw new sales of semi-auto rifles and all handguns, including spare parts. Current owners would be able to keep what they have, but not be able to sell or devise them to next of kin.

IOW, nothing's going to change.

Even on liberal gun-owner forums I became quite unpopular yesterday for suggesting this after reading several posts claiming to want to "have a rational discussion" (or some other similar sentiment). My posts were downvoted out of existence and no small amount of personal insults hurled at me.

Liberals who own guns are, by and large, every bit as fanatical as conservatives on this issue. Their right to own nearly any type of gun they want outweighs your life and the life of your kids. They make the same idiotic arguments the right does, e.g., "Then why not outlaw cars too!"

In other words, this is an American gun-owner phenomenon, and no amount of data matters. For example, 3,000+ people died on 9/11 and we're still carrying on operations in Afghanistan and Iraq because of it. Since 9/11, well over 160,000 Americans have died from being shot by a someone with a gun, but we've done nothing. You'd think that kind of information would cause a good majority of these people to rethink their position, but it doesn't.

All this talk about mental health, background checks, etc., it's all bullshit. Crazy is a human thing. Armed and crazy is an American thing. And it's not going away.

Well-said. I don't shy away from the "gun-grabber" label anymore since Sandy Hook. Enough is really enough. Military and registered hunters get to RENT lethal firearms. The rest of the industry, if they want to stay in business, should get to work on viable non-lethal (or less-lethal, anything to improve over spraying hundreds of bullets a minute) firearms for cops, security guards, homeowners, and target practice enthusiasts. The military has a device that emits sound waves at a frequency that instantly incapacitates crowds of people and makes them vomit. There are tranquilizers, tasers, rubber bullet shotguns, projectile nets, and all manner of ways to subdue a person without also ending his life that haven't even been devised yet. Yes, these can be abused like anything else. But measures like these could at least substantially reduce the instances of mass injury and death.

You mean that I can thwart defense with a simple set of $20 ANR Headphones? Kevlar vests are pretty heavy and expensive... It would be hard to hide one of those on me... but with a headset on I'll blend in just fine and be completely immune.

 

[PyramidHead]

Bah. It's just more hand-wringing and noise until the next one. The only practical solution is to outlaw new sales of semi-auto rifles and all handguns, including spare parts. Current owners would be able to keep what they have, but not be able to sell or devise them to next of kin.

1) This would be considered a taking under the constitution. You want to budget the hundreds of billions to pay for it?

2) By the time those guns wear out new ones will come from 3D printing.

As with virtually everything from the gun-grabbers all you'll do is disarm the law abiding.

It would cut school shootings and the like but the number of people who could no longer defend themselves would probably be greater. It's just they are 1 by 1 and not more than local news.

First of all, everyone is law-abiding before they commit a crime.

But more importantly, I question your comment about self-defense. Are lethal firearms really required for the majority of self-defense scenarios? I'm asking if you have any data to support your assertion that the number of people injured or killed as a result of not being able to kill an attacker with a gun would outweigh the number of lives saved due to fewer guns being in circulation generally.

 

[humbleman]

These are the messages one local girl received from her sister who is a student at Douglas H.S. Her sister is safe, but the terror she was feeling is palpable in her messages.

View attachment 14532

View attachment 14530

View attachment 14531

Solution: Police department must have a Tweeter account to respond similar emergencies of not having phone service to report an emergency.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Numerous fatalities are being stated. We lost. That simple. The NRA won, we lost, and all of the mass murder victims are are lost.

But you know... terrorism and shit. We need to stay on top of that.

Attacking the NRA about this is wrong--the NRA's lobbying budget is small. It's just they say what tens of millions of gun owners think.

Bullshit! They created this frenzy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seems there were signs Cruz had mental issues. It will be interesting to see how this kid got the weapons.

Because the left won't propose reasonable rules to keep guns out of the hands of crazies. Virtually all gun measures from the left go way too far and provoke a backlash that quite correctly keeps them from passing.

I would have no problem with a system that allows doctors and psychologists to report that so-and-so shouldn't be allowed firearms (akin to what we have now with doctors being able to say so-and-so shouldn't drive.) However:

1) This does not include putting their medical records on law enforcement databases.

2) There is a system where it can be challenged as improper without involving a great cost on the part of the person.

Good ole LP hypothetical fantasy.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...the NRA's lobbying budget is small...

$33 million is just spit in a bucket to you?

 

[Worldtraveller]

CBS reporting now 17 dead, gunman captured, used an AR 15.

This will continue to happen until we turn our schools into prisons or fortresses.

The high school I graduated from (yeah, it's been 30 years....). Now has barbed wire fences all around, metal detectors at all the entrances with posted security guards, and students aren't allowed to leave for lunch during the day without express permission from their parents that has to be filed at the school.

 

[Opoponax]

Bah. It's just more hand-wringing and noise until the next one. The only practical solution is to outlaw new sales of semi-auto rifles and all handguns, including spare parts. Current owners would be able to keep what they have, but not be able to sell or devise them to next of kin.

IOW, nothing's going to change.

Even on liberal gun-owner forums I became quite unpopular yesterday for suggesting this after reading several posts claiming to want to "have a rational discussion" (or some other similar sentiment). My posts were downvoted out of existence and no small amount of personal insults hurled at me.

Liberals who own guns are, by and large, every bit as fanatical as conservatives on this issue. Their right to own nearly any type of gun they want outweighs your life and the life of your kids. They make the same idiotic arguments the right does, e.g., "Then why not outlaw cars too!"

In other words, this is an American gun-owner phenomenon, and no amount of data matters. For example, 3,000+ people died on 9/11 and we're still carrying on operations in Afghanistan and Iraq because of it. Since 9/11, well over 160,000 Americans have died from being shot by a someone with a gun, but we've done nothing. You'd think that kind of information would cause a good majority of these people to rethink their position, but it doesn't.

All this talk about mental health, background checks, etc., it's all bullshit. Crazy is a human thing. Armed and crazy is an American thing. And it's not going away.

Well-said. I don't shy away from the "gun-grabber" label anymore since Sandy Hook. Enough is really enough. Military and registered hunters get to RENT lethal firearms. The rest of the industry, if they want to stay in business, should get to work on viable non-lethal (or less-lethal, anything to improve over spraying hundreds of bullets a minute) firearms for cops, security guards, homeowners, and target practice enthusiasts. The military has a device that emits sound waves at a frequency that instantly incapacitates crowds of people and makes them vomit. There are tranquilizers, tasers, rubber bullet shotguns, projectile nets, and all manner of ways to subdue a person without also ending his life that haven't even been devised yet. Yes, these can be abused like anything else. But measures like these could at least substantially reduce the instances of mass injury and death.

You can't really rent a firearm to go hunting. Most hunters have certain ethical beliefs about the sport. One of the primary beliefs is that you should do everything you can to take the animal down in one clean shot so that suffers as little as possible; and for the practical reason that you don't want to to chasing the thing down for hundreds of yards through the bush. Both work together. Anyway, owning your hunting rifle is the best guarantor of those ethics. For example, I have 30-06 that's dead-nuts accurate out to 500 yards. I know what type of ammo I need in that gun to achieve that kind of accuracy. I know what my scope settings need to be on that rifle to achieve that accuracy. I know how the trigger's going to behave every single time. I wouldn't shoot an animal out to 500, but at 300-350 (depending on conditions) certainly. I couldn't do that with a rifle I didn't know well. With a quick zeroing at a range, I could probably get a rented rifle to do okay, but for me, okay isn't good enough.

As for taking currently owned guns away; not gonna happen, not even remotely possible. And I wouldn't give up mine either because I paid for them. Ask someone to the right of me on this and you'll get a volcano-sized eruption type of lecture about all kinds of Constitutional violations that would represent. And, well, they'd be right

The only doable (which is fucking way, way remote at best) is to ban the sale of semi-auto rifles and handguns going forward.

Were Americans suddenly to come to their senses and be willing to give up those types of guns for the greater good, I'd give up mine too. But that idea isn't worth entertaining because it is simply never going to happen.

Anyway, I do agree with you about all the non-lethal methods available to police and military. And a bad guy without a gun is generally not going to do lethal damage; and cops don't have to worry about getting killed, so they wouldn't need lethal force either except in exceptional situations. Europe and Japan (etc.) figured that shit out long ago. But here? This is motherfuckin' 'Murica and we shoot shit!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

CBS reporting now 17 dead, gunman captured, used an AR 15.

This will continue to happen until we turn our schools into prisons or fortresses.

The high school I graduated from (yeah, it's been 30 years....). Now has barbed wire fences all around, metal detectors at all the entrances with posted security guards, and students aren't allowed to leave for lunch during the day without express permission from their parents that has to be filed at the school.

Well, the good news is that they learn early to submit meekly to authoritarian requirements from the government in response to overblown threats. Saves them the trouble of having to do any independent thinking as adults.

 

[SimpleDon]

I agree with David Leonhardt in today's New York Times, The Truth About the Florida School Shooting.

He says,

Here's the truth, the kids killed in Florida yesterday, had the misfortune of growing up - of trying to grow up - in a country that didn't care enough about their lives.

May we honor them with an anger that does not cease until the unnecessary deaths of children do.

 

[Playball40]

So, I just got a phone call from my daughter's high school. Threats are being made against her school and they are on lock down. The kids are terrified as a 'troubled student' was recently expelled and made threats on his way out. Just great.

<update> They have the student that made the threat. Not the same kid....they still have to worry about that one.

 

[Playball40]

I agree with David Leonhardt in today's New York Times, The Truth About the Florida School Shooting.

He says,

Here's the truth, the kids killed in Florida yesterday, had the misfortune of growing up - of trying to grow up - in a country that didn't care enough about their lives.

May we honor them with an anger that does not cease until the unnecessary deaths of children do.

You know I grew up in Miami during the HEIGHT of the Cocaine Wars. We had shootouts constantly. We had race riots. We had massive immigration when Castro emptied his jails/mental hospitals. Guess what? I NEVER EVER ONCE FELT THREATENED IN SCHOOL. NEVER.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Attacking the NRA about this is wrong--the NRA's lobbying budget is small. It's just they say what tens of millions of gun owners think.