Yet another war, this time with Iran

[barbos]

He also says that the Ukrainians currently running the government are criminals and murderers. That may be true but it doesn't have anything to do with why Russians invaded.

Nice deflection. He expained with numbers why Russian "invaded" and it is not not occupy. This is a problem for the official western narrative.

I think the Ukrainians are correct in surmising that joining NATO is advantageous for them.

You can think that all you want. But Russia has stated in 2008 this is not going to happen.

You completely misssed the point of the link I gave to you. Which is western narrative is a complete and utter lie.

 

[Arctish]

Thank you for the link. That guy was very informative. He cited people and agreements by name and events by date, which makes it easy to fact check his statements. He seems to know a lot about the current situation and what led up to it.

You welcome.

None of what he said refutes my analogy, though. In fact, I think his statements support it.

You analogy is BS.

He makes clear distinctions between Russians and Ukrainians. And he says that Russia will not allow Ukraine to set its own course

You clearly did not understood his lecture.
It's not really about distinction. It's about the fact that Ukraine has two part (really three) - russian part and ukrainian part. And it is "ukrainian" part is responsible for the all the shit which is happening.

The consensus is that Russians in Ukraine identify with Russia more closely than they do with the rest of Ukraine and a majority of them want to remain close allies with it.

The Ukrainians in both the parts of the country with a lot of Russians and the parts without them don't identify with Russia and don't want to be controlled by Russians.

You're saying the Ukrainians are responsible for "all the shit which is happening". Even if I agree they bear 100% of the responsibility for the fighting (I don't), what do you think it was about their plans that got the Russians riled up to the point of sending armed troops into Ukrainian territory?

 

[barbos]

The consensus is that Russians in Ukraine identify with Russia more closely than they do with the rest of Ukraine and a majority of them want to remain close allies with it.

The Ukrainians in both the parts of the country with a lot of Russians and the parts without them don't identify with Russia and don't want to be controlled by Russians.

I have expained it million times.
There are basically 3 parts in Ukraine with its own distinct preferences.
1. Eastern Ukraine is basically Russia. It was Russian land which was attached to Ukraine to make it bigger by Lenin.
2. Central Ukraine with Kiev in it which are what is normally considered Ukrainians. They have been under Russian rule for the most of their history and prefer Russian language. And for all intents and purposes until dissolution of USSR were normal people and still remain normal.
3. Western Ukraine, which is former Poland, former Austro-Hungarian Empires.
I know it is wrong thing to say but for the sake of time, I can say these people are assholes.
They claim they are true ukrainians, speak right version of the language and the rest of the shit.
And for some reason they took over Ukraine, not directly but by intimidation, constant maidaning and protesting. The whole ukrainian identity has been built on that mythology completely ignoring the russian influence over most of the history of "Ukraine".
We know why this happened - US did it, they saw these people are terrible and can be useful against USSR and then Russia and they carefully helped that scum to take over Ukraine.
It's all described in think tanks papers and books by your famous assholes like Brzhezinsky (polish piece of shit)

 

[Tigers!]

And we didn't promise anything. As far as I am concerned, Ukraine is a failed state which should be dissolved and go back to Russia. I am willing to consider leaving western Ukraine to its own devices though.

Your magnanimousness is truly inspiring.

 

[barbos]

And we didn't promise anything. As far as I am concerned, Ukraine is a failed state which should be dissolved and go back to Russia. I am willing to consider leaving western Ukraine to its own devices though.

Your magnanimousness is truly inspiring.

Practicality. Russians cannot afford the shithole on its border.
We have spent $250B on it and they sold themselves for another $6B to Nuland.
We can afford Baltic shitholes, but not ukrainian

 

[barbos]

nm

You need to reeducate yourself away from MSM garbage.

 

[Arctish]

nm

You need to reeducate yourself away from MSM garbage.

There's no need to get bitchy. I was in the middle of typing a reply to your post when I got a phone call so I deleted the incomplete text. That's all.

The guy in that link talks about the series of historical events that led up to the war in Ukraine. I don't dispute the historical record.

He makes a clear distinction between Russians and Ukrainians. He says a lot of the people living in the eastern parts of Ukraine are Russians who closely identify with Russia. I don't dispute that.

He says Russia wants to keep Ukraine as a buffer between it and the NATO countries of Europe, and that Ukraine joining NATO was a "red line'" that Russia would not allow anyone to cross. I don't dispute that, either.

So where is the disagreement? Is it because I hold Russia responsible for the invasion? Yes, the Ukrainians were trying to join NATO and yes, the Russians had made threats about what would happen if they tried it. That does not make the invasion any less the responsibility of the party that did the invading.

 

[barbos]

So where is the disagreement? Is it because I hold Russia responsible for the invasion? Yes, the Ukrainians were trying to join NATO and yes,

Ukrainians were not trying to join NATO. They (some of them) were trying to join EU.
You really need to critically review your level of knowledge of the problem.

 

[barbos]

That does not make the invasion any less the responsibility of the party that did the invading.

That's far cry from the claim of unprovoked invasion.
Invasion was totally and actively provoked.

 

[Arctish]

That does not make the invasion any less the responsibility of the party that did the invading.

That's far cry from the claim of unprovoked invasion.
Invasion was totally and actively provoked.

Did I make that claim? Or did you imagine it?

 

[Arctish]

So where is the disagreement? Is it because I hold Russia responsible for the invasion? Yes, the Ukrainians were trying to join NATO and yes,

Ukrainians were not trying to join NATO. They (some of them) were trying to join EU.
You really need to critically review your level of knowledge of the problem.

Then why did Russia's list of demands, made in December of 2021, specifically include a demand that Ukraine not become a member of NATO?

The demands include a ban on Ukraine entering Nato and a limit to the deployment of troops and weapons to Nato’s eastern flank, in effect returning Nato forces to where they were stationed in 1997, before an eastward expansion.


The eight-point draft treaty was released by Russia’s foreign ministry as its forces massed within striking distance of Ukraine’s borders. Moscow said ignoring its interests would lead to a “military response” similar to the Cuban missile crisis of 1962.

 

[zorq]

Of course they will, and some of those possible reactions are murderous and psychotic. That you refuse to recognize them as murderous and psychotic speaks volumes.

Why should I judge other people? What I judge will be just my own opinion. Both the parties may have their reason to act that way.

Well you have no problem judging the west and agreeing with baseless Russian propaganda. For example, you believe without any evidence whatsoever that western actors triggered the Maidan protests. You have judged the west to have acted badly WITH NO EVIDENCE. So... what is preventing you from judging Russia to have acted badly WITH TONS OF EVIDENCE??? I don't see what is holding you back?

Please. Feel free to express "opinions" that don't give cover to murderous psychopaths. Unless you are being paid to spread idiotic propaganda or you are secretly a murderous psychopath yourself, I don't see how holding opinions like this back is helping you.

Is his mouth large enough? Well with enough people like you willing to whitewash, ignore, run interference, and excuse his atrocities, he certainly can.

I can neither help nor stop Trump, Putin, Xi, Netanyahu or Mojtaba, doing what they want to do.

Information is power. Your voice is power. Every post you make on the internet affects the world around you even if it only in very small ways. The fact that you have given so much of your voice to Putin reflects quite poorly on you. You claim to not like imperialism but throw your voice behind an open imperialist.

You think it is "dickish" for me to wonder if you have been affected by rape culture. You're not wrong, it is dickish of me. But the crime of rape is nothing compared to the Russian atrocity of instigating a war of aggression that you whitewash and ignore repeatedly. Using the excuses refined by rape apologists to excuse crimes far worse than rape is where you stand. I think that is also, at the very least, "dickish."

 

[aupmanyav]

Unless you are being paid to spread idiotic propaganda or you are secretly a murderous psychopath yourself,

I do not know who is a murderous psychopath; Hamas, Hezbollah, Mojtaba, Netanyahu, Putin, Trump? They seem all alike to me.
I don't know Netanyahu's current score. Is it more than 100,000? No, as per DuckAssist, score is 75,811.
"As of 3 May 2026, at least 75,811 people have been reported killed in the Gaza war according to the Gaza Health Ministry and Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs,"
"The estimated casualties in the Ukraine war include between 400,000 and 1.5 million people killed and wounded since the Russian invasion began on February 2022. Additionally, there were approximately 14,200 to 14,400 military and civilian deaths during the earlier conflict in Donbas from 2014 to 2022." Wikipedia

The fact that you have given so much of your voice to Putin reflects quite poorly on you. You claim to not like imperialism but throw your voice behind an open imperialist.

More people here have given their voice for US, Europe and Israel. The other parties also need some help.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But the fact remains that for geopolitical reasons removing Maduro from power and taking down the Castro regime, is in the interest of the European regimes.

How is that in the interest of the European regimes? Did Venezuela or Cuba harm European interests?

Socialism is bad for business. Democracies tend to be more peaceful. It's good for overall wealth, stability and world peace.

As a reminder, Cuba was hardly a democracy before Castro took over.

That doesn't magically make Castro's regime ok

Can you follow your own conversations? You pitted Socialism against democracy. That wasn't what was at stake in Cuba. They effectively traded one tyranny for another.

Again... just because the prior goverment also was a dictatorship doesn't make Castro's ok. I'm all for leaning on dictatorships until they all fall over.

Yes, USA's foreign policy has a questionable track record. But sometimes horrible people can do nice things worthy of support.

And Cuban communism would have fallen much earlier if Mr. Burns didn't lose that billion dollars to Castro.

Has it fallen? Last time I checked Cuba was still communist

In the end, Socialism is economically important. Capitalism is economically important. They need each other desperately, because either one on its own is going to fail in a big way.

How is socialism economically important? Socialism is great for social stability. But in what sense is it good for the economy?

Stability is good for the economy.

Yeah, but socialism is also expensive. You can create stability that is so stable that the economy suffers. There's the point where the socialism hurts more than it delivers. Sweden and Denmark reached that point in the 80'ies. We're less socialist now. Both our economies are less prosperous than USA's. I think it's because of socialism. I still prefer living here rather than the States. I'm just aware of the cost.

Americans trade safety for having the ability to buy more expensive toys. Whether you think it's worth it is just down to ideological matters. Neither is obviously superior.

 

[barbos]

That does not make the invasion any less the responsibility of the party that did the invading.

That's far cry from the claim of unprovoked invasion.
Invasion was totally and actively provoked.

Did I make that claim? Or did you imagine it?

Don't know about you personally but the rest of the western gang here certainly did and do.
You at the very least tacitly agreed with them.

 

[barbos]

Then why did Russia's list of demands, made in December of 2021, specifically include a demand that Ukraine not become a member of NATO?

Well, because by December of 2021 (which 7 years after nazi coup) the masters ordered the puppet regime in Kiev to want to enter NATO. In 2014 they wanted EU.
And you are confusing Regime in Kiev with ordinary ukrainians.

 

[SLD]

If the straights aren’t opened by September, expect a serious parabolic shift upwards in oil prices.

It's a strait. There's only one that is closed. It's actually not straight at all, it has a sharp curve.

"The straits" is a geopolitical term usually used to describe the passage between the Mediterrainean and Black Seas, which includes both the Dardanelles and Bosphorous straits. These are ~3,000km from the Strait of Hormuz.

Thanks. Good catch! I should have known better!

 

[ZiprHead]

And then your neighbor arms up and attacks you.

If my neighbor attacks me, then I would do what is necessary.

Like Ukraine did?

 

[ZiprHead]

What exactly did USA want and what is your evidence for it?

US plan was simple. Make Russia fight a proxy war. Evidence is four-year Russia-Ukraine conflict in which both suffered, Ukraine bearing the brunt of it, making millions leave Ukraine. US and Europe enjoyed the war from distance sending arms to Ukraine. But Trump got involved in another war, with less resources to send to Ukraine.

Bullshit. Russia invaded and attacked Ukraine in 2014. This war is just a continuation of the initial invasion.

 

[ZiprHead]

Like that time when Russia took Crimea and super promised they wouldn't take anymore? Or when Ukraine gave up all their nuclear weapons, sent them to Russia because Russia super duper promissed not to attack Ukraine?

Russia was always clear that it would not want NATO in Ukraine.

Your neighbors were always clear they didn't want you associating with your friends.