You find yourself in the cretaceous

[untermensche]

You don't seem to understand. By definition nothing can change.

I am the only one that understands that.

The past can't change.

A person can't change events that occurred before they were born.

Merely observing those events would change them.

And as you say. Nothing can change.

 

[Elixir]

[removed]

How do you (think you) know?

 

[Elixir]

Here are our rational options:

Time travel is possible because changing the past is possible.

Time travel is impossible because changing the past .

Or:
Stating that something is impossible because you can’t understand how it could be possible is irrational, and frequently a mistake. Especially when many people who know more about it than you do are able to see how it could be possible.
Yes it would be magic, to you.

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
AC Clarke

It is [removed] to say that a person born after events have occurred does not change those events that have occurred by miraculously intruding into them from the future.

The only way time travel is possible is if changing the past is possible.

How do you (think you) know?
BTW everything is literally always changing.

 

[untermensche]

It is [removed] to say that a person born after events have occurred does not change those events that have occurred by miraculously intruding into them from the future.

The only way time travel is possible is if changing the past is possible.

How do you (think you) know?

When you are born the events in your past have already occurred.

All the events of WWII have occurred.

The Roman wars have occurred.

The time of the dinosaurs has occurred.

Are you saying they have not?

 

[untermensche]

It is [removed] to say that a person born after events have occurred does not change those events that have occurred by miraculously intruding into them from the future.

The only way time travel is possible is if changing the past is possible.

How do you (think you) know?
BTW everything is literally always changing.

Not the past.

All the events that occurred before you were born had completed before you were born. You were not born yet. You could not have been a part of those events.

If you intrude into those events from the future you have changed them.

This is not saying time travel is impossible because time travel is impossible.

It is saying that if time travel is possible that means changing the past is possible.

You can't intrude into events that occurred before you were born and not change them.

 

[DBT]

[removed]

It's not the past when the time traveller appears, it is the present. The time traveller appears in a present moment in time, he changes the present moment and becomes a part of that period. His presence at that time becomes the past as time marches on.

 

[untermensche]

[removed]
It's not the past when the time traveller appears, it is the present. The time traveller appears in a present moment in time, he changes the present moment and becomes a part of that period. His presence at that time becomes the past as time marches on.

That is fine.

But the time traveler being there changes the past.

All the events from the time traveler's past had completed when the time traveler was born. The time traveler was not born yet so he could not have been a part of any of those events yet.

If the time traveler intrudes into any of those events somehow he has changed them.

This is a universal truth for any observer.

If any observer intrudes into events that have occurred before they were born they have changed those events.

 

[DBT]

It's not the past when the time traveller appears, it is the present. The time traveller appears in a present moment in time, he changes the present moment and becomes a part of that period. His presence at that time becomes the past as time marches on.

That is fine.

But the time traveler being there changes the past.

All the events from the time traveler's past had completed when the time traveler was born. The time traveler was not born yet so he could not have been a part of any of those events yet.

If the time traveler intrudes into any of those events somehow he has changed them.

This is a universal truth for any observer.

If any observer intrudes into events that have occurred before they were born they have changed those events.

The traveller in the past is a part of that past, which is not the past while he is there, it is the present. He moves from one present to another present.

 

[untermensche]

It's not the past when the time traveller appears, it is the present. The time traveller appears in a present moment in time, he changes the present moment and becomes a part of that period. His presence at that time becomes the past as time marches on.

That is fine.

But the time traveler being there changes the past.

All the events from the time traveler's past had completed when the time traveler was born. The time traveler was not born yet so he could not have been a part of any of those events yet.

If the time traveler intrudes into any of those events somehow he has changed them.

This is a universal truth for any observer.

If any observer intrudes into events that have occurred before they were born they have changed those events.

The traveller in the past is a part of that past, which is not the past while he is there, it is the present. He moves from one present to another present.

When the time traveler was born they were not part of the past.

They were part of the present and the events of the past had completed.

If the time traveler becomes part of the past that means they have intruded into the past somehow and changed it.

You can say you think moving to the past is possible. It is a false belief but just a belief.

[removed]

 

[Rhea]

It is against the Terms of Use of this site to call another user a liar.
It is likewise against the terms of use to say they lie.
It is likewise against the terms of use to quote them and say, "this is a lie"

A lie is intentional. None of you can claim to know what is in another's head.
So someone may post something that is wrong, or inaccurate, or contrary to what you thought you said...

... your job is to DISCUSS the merits of the ARGUMENT and not call each other names.


This is not some backwoods bar at 1am

.

and for the love of reason, stop quoting the violations and making the mods do 10 times the work.

 

[Rhea]

.
.
Thread re-opened.


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[untermensche]

The traveller in the past is a part of that past, which is not the past while he is there, it is the present. He moves from one present to another present.

When the time traveler was born they were not part of the past.

They were part of the present and the events of the past had completed.

If the time traveler becomes part of the past that means they have intruded into the past somehow and changed it.

You can say you think moving to the past is possible. It is a false belief but just a belief.

It is a FALSE CLAIM to say that a person moving to the past is not changing the past.

 

[DBT]

The traveller in the past is a part of that past, which is not the past while he is there, it is the present. He moves from one present to another present.

When the time traveler was born they were not part of the past.

They were part of the present and the events of the past had completed.

If the time traveler becomes part of the past that means they have intruded into the past somehow and changed it.

You can say you think moving to the past is possible. It is a false belief but just a belief.

It is a FALSE CLAIM to say that a person moving to the past is not changing the past.

It doesn't matter when the traveller was born. Each 'present' has its own events. The traveller becomes an inseparable part of the time and events of the place he visits.

 

[Elixir]

It is [removed] to say that a person born after events have occurred does not change those events that have occurred by miraculously intruding into them from the future.

The only way time travel is possible is if changing the past is possible.

How do you (think you) know?

When you are born the events in your past have already occurred.

All the events of WWII have occurred.

The Roman wars have occurred.

The time of the dinosaurs has occurred.

Are you saying they have not?

None of that is conclusive. You can SAY whatever you like. You can say it a thousand time (you may have done so already) but contrary to your apparent belief, that doesn't lend the statements any more cred or prove anything impossible.
Read what has been written.

 

[untermensche]

The traveller in the past is a part of that past, which is not the past while he is there, it is the present. He moves from one present to another present.

When the time traveler was born they were not part of the past.

They were part of the present and the events of the past had completed.

If the time traveler becomes part of the past that means they have intruded into the past somehow and changed it.

You can say you think moving to the past is possible. It is a false belief but just a belief.

It is a FALSE CLAIM to say that a person moving to the past is not changing the past.

It doesn't matter when the traveller was born. Each 'present' has its own events. The traveller becomes an inseparable part of the time and events of the place he visits.

It does matter when you are born.

Being born is not some universal in time.

It is a specific event in time.

It is an event that occurred after all the events in the past occurred ALREADY.

All a person could do is intrude upon the past and change it.

They can't be a part of the past at birth.

 

[untermensche]

When you are born the events in your past have already occurred.

All the events of WWII have occurred.

The Roman wars have occurred.

The time of the dinosaurs has occurred.

Are you saying they have not?

None of that is conclusive. You can SAY whatever you like. You can say it a thousand time (you may have done so already) but contrary to your apparent belief, that doesn't lend the statements any more cred or prove anything impossible.
Read what has been written.

Are you claiming a person going to the past has not changed it?

Support this contention.

A person is born at a specific moment in time.

The events that occurred before they were born occurred already without them.

A person cannot be in the past before they were born. They can (some claim) travel to a past that already occurred before they were born and change it though.

 

[DBT]

It doesn't matter when the traveller was born. Each 'present' has its own events. The traveller becomes an inseparable part of the time and events of the place he visits.

It does matter when you are born.

Being born is not some universal in time.

It is a specific event in time.

It is an event that occurred after all the events in the past occurred ALREADY.

All a person could do is intrude upon the past and change it.

They can't be a part of the past at birth.

I'm not talking about universal time, just the events of each time and place as they are happening.

 

[Elixir]

When you are born the events in your past have already occurred.

All the events of WWII have occurred.

The Roman wars have occurred.

The time of the dinosaurs has occurred.

Are you saying they have not?

None of that is conclusive. You can SAY whatever you like. You can say it a thousand time (you may have done so already) but contrary to your apparent belief, that doesn't lend the statements any more cred or prove anything impossible.
Read what has been written.

Are you claiming a person going to the past has not changed it?

No. It's the same. They always went there, if they went there.

Support your contention if you contend that you know that they didn't.
Lots of impossible things happen.
"Spooky action at a distance", "Double Slit Experiment"

I know one thing for certain:
The range of things that are "possible" exceeds the range of any human's ability to understand what is possible.

 

[untermensche]

It doesn't matter when the traveller was born. Each 'present' has its own events. The traveller becomes an inseparable part of the time and events of the place he visits.

It does matter when you are born.

Being born is not some universal in time.

It is a specific event in time.

It is an event that occurred after all the events in the past occurred ALREADY.

All a person could do is intrude upon the past and change it.

They can't be a part of the past at birth.

I'm not talking about universal time, just the events of each time and place as they are happening.

When you were born were all the events in your past already completed?

And did they not complete without you because you had not even been born yet?

If all the events in your past were completed without you at your birth then you are not a part of those events at birth.

If later you go back in time you must have intruded into the past and changed it because all the events that occurred before you were born had completed before you were born without you.

 

[untermensche]

Are you claiming a person going to the past has not changed it?

No. It's the same. They always went there, if they went there.

You can't be in the past at birth.

The past are the events that occurred before you were born.

They were the events that occurred before you existed. Your existence is an event in time. There are other events in time that occurred before you existed.

You cannot be a part of those events at birth.

If you go to the past you have intruded into those events and changed them.

Time travel is only possible if it is possible to change the past.