You find yourself in the cretaceous

[thebeave]

The world we live in is a far cry from the conditions before human impact on the environment. How many 19th century mountain men, trappers, etc, were taken by bears, wolves or caugers...better to have a means of defense than not.

Colonizing forces who didn't really understand the landscape they were in, its dangers, or how to deal with them effectively. A landscape which, incidentally, was not uninhabited before their arrival, and whose ecological balance was badly damaged by their resulting mass predator kills, damage we are only now starting to repair. So this idea of going back in time to shoot all the tyrannosaurs... it has precedent. Not good precedent. Not good times. I'd rather a time traveler kill themselves than risk the entire future (our present) of the world just so they can go on some boyish primeval power trip.

Dude, I don't think anyone here is talking about going on some Rambo-eque hunting trip to the Cretaceous to, as you say, "shoot all the tyrannosaurs" and engage in some "boyish primeval power trip". They are talking about bringing a weapon as a means of defense. There's also a lot of tongue in cheek commentary here that you may be taking a little too seriously. And yes, a time traveler could put the future at risk by changing the timeline. That's true of a time travel trip to the past to, say, sit around and talk about world peace with Budda or Jesus. I think we can all agree that time travel to the past is just a really, really bad idea were it even possible. Fun to think about though.

 

[Treedbear]

...
Dude, I don't think anyone here is talking about going on some Rambo-eque hunting trip to the Cretaceous to, as you say, "shoot all the tyrannosaurs" and engage in some "boyish primeval power trip". They are talking about bringing a weapon as a means of defense. There's also a lot of tongue in cheek commentary here that you may be taking a little too seriously. And yes, a time traveler could put the future at risk by changing the timeline. That's true of a time travel trip to the past to, say, sit around and talk about world peace with Budda or Jesus. I think we can all agree that time travel to the past is just a really, really bad idea were it even possible. Fun to think about though.

Yeah, I was assuming I just found myself in a Cretaceous-like environment (maybe the "actual" past, maybe alone, maybe with others, with an unknown duration) and was faced with the problem of how to survive. The paradox of time travel is a different matter. Hypothetically the future has already been changed. It's just a question of how would one survive. But with limited technological resources available the prognosis for one's own future is "nasty, brutish and short".

 

[Cycad]

That story was about a North American cougar. As far as I am aware, they will take humans as 'targets of opportunity' but don't stalk humans. They will take and eat humans but incidents are about five or six per decade.

Well I am one of these ‘incidents’

In the 60’ I was altar boy at our local St Martins church in Paris. I was 16.
After difficult selection tests, a small group of us was handpicked by our vicar to visit St Francis of Assisi in Manhattan. Being blonde blue eyed altar boy I was stalked there by a cougar.

Target of opportunity, my ass !

And yes she ate me, at least some parts of me and thats not related to the holy transubstantiation. Sweet baby Jezus what an eyeopener.
She made me loose not only my virginity but also my faith. Been an atheist ever since.

OK now back on track to the cretaceous, double deuce 2 bore shotguns and changing the present by shitting your pants on the first sighting of a TRex.

 

[skepticalbip]

The world we live in is a far cry from the conditions before human impact on the environment. How many 19th century mountain men, trappers, etc, were taken by bears, wolves or caugers...better to have a means of defense than not.

Colonizing forces who didn't really understand the landscape they were in, its dangers, or how to deal with them effectively. A landscape which, incidentally, was not uninhabited before their arrival, and whose ecological balance was badly damaged by their resulting mass predator kills, damage we are only now starting to repair. So this idea of going back in time to shoot all the tyrannosaurs... it has precedent. Not good precedent. Not good times. I'd rather a time traveler kill themselves than risk the entire future (our present) of the world just so they can go on some boyish primeval power trip.

Dude, I don't think anyone here is talking about going on some Rambo-eque hunting trip to the Cretaceous to, as you say, "shoot all the tyrannosaurs" and engage in some "boyish primeval power trip". They are talking about bringing a weapon as a means of defense.

Politesse tends to argue in strawmen. It has already been pointed out to him a few times that he is the only one talking about a hunting safari. Everyone else is talking about how to best defend yourself if necessary.

There's also a lot of tongue in cheek commentary here that you may be taking a little too seriously. And yes, a time traveler could put the future at risk by changing the timeline. That's true of a time travel trip to the past to, say, sit around and talk about world peace with Budda or Jesus. I think we can all agree that time travel to the past is just a really, really bad idea were it even possible. Fun to think about though.

In the fantasy idea of time travel, I would think that taking a shit during the Cretaceous would do much more to change the timeline than killing a predator that was attacking you. Taking a shit would release untold numbers of microbes that had evolved over tens of millions of years into an environment that had not seen them.

 

[thebeave]

There are some tigers that have learned humans can be eaten. However, for the most part we get things like was described by a hiker: She was alone on a rarely-hiked mountain and encountered a mountain lion. She quickly brought her dog in close and retreated carefully. The mountain lion followed her for a while--and she was convinced the mountain lion was trying to separate her from her dog so he could go after the dog. Mostly they regard us as other alpha predators and predators don't engage other predators at their level unless they are desperate.

That story was about a North American cougar (AKA mountain lion, panther, catamount). As far as I am aware, they will take humans as 'targets of opportunity' but don't stalk humans. They will take and eat humans but incidents are about five or six per decade. Alligators, crocodiles, hyenas, lions, etc. are also opportunists that will eat humans if they have the opportunity but don't stalk us.

Tigers are another story. They learned long, long ago that humans were good to eat. We are on their menu. They, like polar bears, will stalk humans. I find conflicting numbers on the number of people eaten by tigers world wide each year but it seems to be between 60 and 90. The southern border area between India and Bangladesh seems to have the highest concentration of incidents (about 20/year) of tigers having humans for dinner. But they also happen in Sumatra, Indo-China, Siberia, etc.

ETA:
I just did a google search on this topic and found this article:

https://www.insider.com/hunt-for-indian-tiger-which-has-killed-eight-people-within-two-years

An 'intelligent' man-eating tiger that has killed its 8th victim in an Indian forest continues to evade the hunters sent to track it down

This bit in that article surprised me:
"Tigers have killed 225 people between 2014 and 2019 across India, including 31 in Maharashtra in 2020 alone."

Here's an example of a mountain lion stalking. Although, maybe this isn't technically considered stalking in the conventional sense. Still, I wouldn't want to be in this guy's shoes.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktRhBcHza4[/YOUTUBE]

Imagine if that was a T-rex fucking with you like that.

 

[Treedbear]

...
In the fantasy idea of time travel, I would think that taking a shit during the Cretaceous would do much more to change the timeline than killing a predator that was attacking you. Taking a shit would release untold numbers of microbes that had evolved over tens of millions of years into an environment that had not seen them.

^ That, for sure.

 

[Politesse]

That story was about a North American cougar (AKA mountain lion, panther, catamount). As far as I am aware, they will take humans as 'targets of opportunity' but don't stalk humans. They will take and eat humans but incidents are about five or six per decade. Alligators, crocodiles, hyenas, lions, etc. are also opportunists that will eat humans if they have the opportunity but don't stalk us.

Tigers are another story. They learned long, long ago that humans were good to eat. We are on their menu. They, like polar bears, will stalk humans. I find conflicting numbers on the number of people eaten by tigers world wide each year but it seems to be between 60 and 90. The southern border area between India and Bangladesh seems to have the highest concentration of incidents (about 20/year) of tigers having humans for dinner. But they also happen in Sumatra, Indo-China, Siberia, etc.

ETA:
I just did a google search on this topic and found this article:

This bit in that article surprised me:
"Tigers have killed 225 people between 2014 and 2019 across India, including 31 in Maharashtra in 2020 alone."

Here's an example of a mountain lion stalking. Although, maybe this isn't technically considered stalking in the conventional sense. Still, I wouldn't want to be in this guy's shoes.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktRhBcHza4[/YOUTUBE]

Imagine if that was a T-rex fucking with you like that.

She's not "stalking" anyone. Not only is that obviously a threat display to get him away from her kittens, the person who posted it even acknowledged that he was messing around with her kittens, and that she stopped the display once he backed off sufficiently. Murdering her would be immoral and pointless.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here's an example of a mountain lion stalking. Although, maybe this isn't technically considered stalking in the conventional sense. Still, I wouldn't want to be in this guy's shoes.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktRhBcHza4[/YOUTUBE]

Imagine if that was a T-rex fucking with you like that.

That is clearly not a case of stalking. That mountain lion is not interested in eating him, it is interested in driving him away from her kittens. Before the video starts he fucked up badly--he saw the kittens and went towards them, not away from them.

 

[thebeave]

Here's an example of a mountain lion stalking. Although, maybe this isn't technically considered stalking in the conventional sense. Still, I wouldn't want to be in this guy's shoes.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktRhBcHza4[/YOUTUBE]

Imagine if that was a T-rex fucking with you like that.

That is clearly not a case of stalking. That mountain lion is not interested in eating him, it is interested in driving him away from her kittens. Before the video starts he fucked up badly--he saw the kittens and went towards them, not away from them.

I didn't catch that that the first frame was of one of her kittens. I thought it was the mother far off in the distance. I see now the mother running up the road behind the kitten... the first few seconds were a bit blurry. The guy wasn't really hassling the kitten in any way. Looks like he just took a few steps back to check out what it was. Perhaps he thought it was a bobcat or other more benign animal. I don't fault the guy much here for being curious or stupid, unless he was fucking around with it prior to the start of the recording.


As for stalking, the video title calls it stalking, so I went with that. Notice I did say its maybe not stalking in the conventional sense of a predator stealthily stalking its prey. On the other hand, if a man followed a woman in that way when she was out on a hike, I think the word stalking would apply.

 

[bilby]

Is it just me, or does "You find yourself in the Cretaceous" sound like a tourism slogan?

It just needs a picture of a smiling young lady leaving bare footprints on the beach at sunset, with maybe a T-rex and an erupting volcano in the background, Pterosaurs wheeling overhead...

 

[Politesse]

Is it just me, or does "You find yourself in the Cretaceous" sound like a tourism slogan?

It just needs a picture of a smiling young lady leaving bare footprints on the beach at sunset, with maybe a T-rex and an erupting volcano in the background, Pterosaurs wheeling overhead...

Don't forget the AR-15 in her hands. You can't visit the Cretaceous without one.

 

[DBT]

The world we live in is a far cry from the conditions before human impact on the environment. How many 19th century mountain men, trappers, etc, were taken by bears, wolves or caugers...better to have a means of defense than not.

Colonizing forces who didn't really understand the landscape they were in, its dangers, or how to deal with them effectively. A landscape which, incidentally, was not uninhabited before their arrival, and whose ecological balance was badly damaged by their resulting mass predator kills, damage we are only now starting to repair. So this idea of going back in time to shoot all the tyrannosaurs... it has precedent. Not good precedent. Not good times. I'd rather a time traveler kill themselves than risk the entire future (our present) of the world just so they can go on some boyish primeval power trip.

Dude, I don't think anyone here is talking about going on some Rambo-eque hunting trip to the Cretaceous to, as you say, "shoot all the tyrannosaurs" and engage in some "boyish primeval power trip". They are talking about bringing a weapon as a means of defense. There's also a lot of tongue in cheek commentary here that you may be taking a little too seriously. And yes, a time traveler could put the future at risk by changing the timeline. That's true of a time travel trip to the past to, say, sit around and talk about world peace with Budda or Jesus. I think we can all agree that time travel to the past is just a really, really bad idea were it even possible. Fun to think about though.

Yes, it seems that no matter what you say, a different version pops up. If a gun is taken on an expedition for self defense against dangerous predators, there is sure to be a mindless massacre of T Rex.

 

[Politesse]

Dude, I don't think anyone here is talking about going on some Rambo-eque hunting trip to the Cretaceous to, as you say, "shoot all the tyrannosaurs" and engage in some "boyish primeval power trip". They are talking about bringing a weapon as a means of defense. There's also a lot of tongue in cheek commentary here that you may be taking a little too seriously. And yes, a time traveler could put the future at risk by changing the timeline. That's true of a time travel trip to the past to, say, sit around and talk about world peace with Budda or Jesus. I think we can all agree that time travel to the past is just a really, really bad idea were it even possible. Fun to think about though.

Yes, it seems that no matter what you say, a different version pops up. If a gun is taken on an expedition for self defense against dangerous predators, there is sure to be a mindless massacre of T Rex.

You brought up the trappers and colonizers, DBT. Tell me, where are all the wolves? The bison? The beaver?

I'm questioning the point of this thread. If "what gun should I bring" is the only question you can think of with respect to the Cretaceous Period, it says more about you than it does about the ancient landscape in question.

 

[DBT]

Dude, I don't think anyone here is talking about going on some Rambo-eque hunting trip to the Cretaceous to, as you say, "shoot all the tyrannosaurs" and engage in some "boyish primeval power trip". They are talking about bringing a weapon as a means of defense. There's also a lot of tongue in cheek commentary here that you may be taking a little too seriously. And yes, a time traveler could put the future at risk by changing the timeline. That's true of a time travel trip to the past to, say, sit around and talk about world peace with Budda or Jesus. I think we can all agree that time travel to the past is just a really, really bad idea were it even possible. Fun to think about though.

Yes, it seems that no matter what you say, a different version pops up. If a gun is taken on an expedition for self defense against dangerous predators, there is sure to be a mindless massacre of T Rex.

You brought up the trappers and colonizers, DBT. Tell me, where are all the wolves? The bison? The beaver?

I'm questioning the point of this thread. If "what gun should I bring" is the only question you can think of with respect to the Cretaceous Period, it says more about you than it does about the ancient landscape in question.

Another Strawman, I said nothing about trapping, colonizing or hunting in the cretaceous.

 

[skepticalbip]

I would think that it should be obvious that anyone who fails to plan on how to survive before venturing into an "unknown territory" likely won't.

 

[Politesse]

I would think that it should be obvious that anyone who fails to plan on how to survive before venturing into an "unknown territory" likely won't.

That I very much agree with. You don't need to travel to the Cretaceous to find people perishing from a lack of planning in wild spaces.

 

[untermensche]

Does anyone really think a human body can travel back in time?

I think we could get to Mars if we wanted to.

 

[DBT]

Obviously it's a hypothetical.

 

[untermensche]

Obviously it's a hypothetical.

It's an exercise in creative writing. Science fiction.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

A time traveler who doesn't want their own species to suddenly blip out of existence should be trying to minimize, not maximize, their impact on the target landscape.

So, do you think that that is possible? How do you get out of the grandfather paradox?
One possibility is that the time traveller actually got to a parallel universe. Humans do not exist, and I do not see why he would have an obligation to try to bring about that tens of millions of years later they come into existence. I see no good reason to suspect he has a good chance of precisely influencing the future in that manner.

Another possibility is that it's some kind of close curve. But whatever it is, if it's our universe, humans do exist in the present.

If you are not convinced and think there is an alternative, I would ask what you mean that humans "suddenly blip out of existence". Does it happen to present-day humans, as if Thanos snapped his fingers? When? In 2021? Maybe 1934? 1492? 2223?