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Young Americans Reject Capitalism

When far more than half of the work is done by machines, why do we need to spend anything close to half of our lives working?

The mean productivity of a pre-agricultural human was enough to keep the tribe alive, and to carry a few children and retirees who couldn't hunt or gather.

Today's global productivity per capita is vastly higher, and is easily enough to carry everyone through half a lifetime of non-productive work.

We don't need to do anything more to be able to afford this, other than tweak the system to distribute the wealth more evenly. But instead the system is being driven in the opposite direction.

We have the problem that we actually want to do something with our time off and that requires the resources to do it.

That's not a problem when we have the ability to generate a massive surplus of resources - which we clearly do.

Indeed, many people find that the things they want to do with their time off become productive in their own right - The Beatles presumably didn't intend to found a multi-million dollar business phenomenon when they bunked off school to sing and play guitar.

I expect even they thought that those guitars were an expensive cost that they had to wear in order to pursue their hobby - but as it turned out, they paid for themselves many, many times over.

You are making the same error here as arkirk - you think that economic growth implies primary production. You each reach opposite conclusions from this flawed premise, but the fundamental error is the same.
 
We have plenty of minimum wage threads; and MW is tangential to the point.

Capitalism is a system whereby those with resources can distribute them efficiently to those who need them, in exchange for money.

It cannot work well in the absence of an equally robust system to distribute money from those who have it to those who need it, usually and ideally in exchange for work (which is one of the few resources poor people have available).

If either of these processes is allowed to dominate the other, then we run into problems.

And for several decades, the major western economies have been suppressing the latter in favour of the former - and as things get less and less pleasant, they have doubled-down on their insistence that only the former is necessary, and that any problems we see are due to not enough effort to cut tax, boost profits, and reduce wages.

First I agree we have too many MW threads.

I had to read the rest of the posts from mine to get the sense of where this capitalism thread is going.

As I get it capitalism some say is probably the most efficient means for exploiting producing and distributing products of use to us.

Then the issue of how to distribute excess money to those who need product seems to be a consensus view.

Well here is where such as tipping, artisan, charity, and other value added products come into play.

We've automated production and product distribution removing the need for human input without replacing that supply of primary human skills for participating in product exploitation and we are beginning to remove another major category of human use in resource exploitation that of using human reasoning ability to effectively produce and distribute.

With those two aptitudes removed from the trade for resources to buy products either the process needs change to one where humans are once again useful to the process or humans need to organize differently to take advantage of what they've wrought as a powerful engine for resource exchange.

If abilities are no longer the center of exchange and capitalist exchange is to remain then charity, excess payment, and increased consumption of nonessential, but, value added products like art, music, performance, need be raised to very high levels giving all who attempt to contribute a portion of whatever pie comes from the excess money generating owner and financial class.

Generally, this process is being exploited but it isn't generating enough from the money holding classes, nor do I see it likely to do so.

Probably a better approach is to refocus desire (greed) from money to product usage. IOW getting people to use product becomes the source of incentive. Once the contract is status for number of consumers the incentive system willt ransform from acquiring monetary wealth to one of acquiring product consumers. Now users gain in value and are paid commiserate with their consumption of products distributed through automation. Inventing new ways to get persons to use produce becomes the new source of wealth which, as it turns out, goes back as money to those who are needed to do the consumption.
 
Probably a better approach is to refocus desire (greed) from money to product usage. IOW getting people to use product becomes the source of incentive. Once the contract is status for number of consumers the incentive system willt ransform from acquiring monetary wealth to one of acquiring product consumers. Now users gain in value and are paid commiserate with their consumption of products distributed through automation. Inventing new ways to get persons to use produce becomes the new source of wealth which, as it turns out, goes back as money to those who are needed to do the consumption.

Huh?
 
Probably a better approach is to refocus desire (greed) from money to product usage. IOW getting people to use product becomes the source of incentive. Once the contract is status for number of consumers the incentive system willt ransform from acquiring monetary wealth to one of acquiring product consumers. Now users gain in value and are paid commiserate with their consumption of products distributed through automation. Inventing new ways to get persons to use produce becomes the new source of wealth which, as it turns out, goes back as money to those who are needed to do the consumption.

Huh?

Move primary incentive from profit to number of users. Now money can be used to gain users rather than figuring out ways to redistribute wealth. Money becomes secondary to number of users for gaining advantage. You get more per item if you have more who want to buy your product. One gets more to want product by giving them money to do so. So by trading off money for consumers owners gain power. Notoriety and power is given for number of users rather than wealth even though money still plays its role in product distribution. Its a redistribution game within a profit game.

Think of what Trump did by using entertainment in republican nomination process. Those who used only money to oppose him lost because Trump was able to dominate communication process with voters through entertainment. He used wealth gained to become entertainer. Then he used entertainment advantage to secure nomination.
 

Move primary incentive from profit to number of users. Now money can be used to gain users rather than figuring out ways to redistribute wealth. Money becomes secondary to number of users for gaining advantage. You get more per item if you have more who want to buy your product. One gets more to want product by giving them money to do so. So by trading off money for consumers owners gain power. Notoriety and power is given for number of users rather than wealth even though money still plays its role in product distribution. Its a redistribution game within a profit game.


Still makes no sense. Porsche could sell a million cars if they sold them for a $1, but it doesn't pay the workers.
 
see above.


And some companies have survived by following that model, but it doesn't usually work. Facebook, Amazon come to mind. But some companies won't get funding just because they can away their product for free.

And politics was different. And Trump gained his popularity not just because of his media attention.
 
....Trump gained his popularity not just because of his media attention.

Right he and the media business changed the paradigm. The media business changed its approach to 'news' because of added viewers which meant more bucks for them. Shift from public service to more viewers for gain. If Media perverts general cycle this way Trump may be elected because he was cause of paradigm shift in news focus. I'm not saying its pretty. It isn't. It works.

Now what's fit to print reverts to anything not overly offensive to 'general' audience again as it was 'til E.R. Morrow.

I sense similar things happening to scientific news as well. A softening of empirical for mass appeal.

When communication becomes personal for everyone then there is a basis for such as I propose. Not saying it is good. It is an alternative for redistribution problem however.

Follow on is does this change in the role of business in mass attraction for information need regulation?
 
Agreed. Trump isn't popular to begin with.

We'll see in the general election if it was true popularity or possibly the funniest joke ever done by a group of people.
I think Trump is a lot like boil over Charlie Sheen. People like watching it, but wouldn't be too far behind it and certainly not pay much to see it.
 
Trade Unions exist to look after their members, just as capitalist exist to look after themselves and steal. Capitalist backers, liked this poster, detest workers' rights and long for a police state.

The word is balance. Not a one way street to ruin!

Capitalism will ruin the vast majority anyway. Where've you been? :)
 
You obviously were taking a trip to Mars while the socialists paradise of the Soviet Union collapsed. And have been treking in Antarctica while the socialists destroyed Venezuela.
 
Yes, I think so. One part of that is exactly what you said first - regulating capitalism. Perhaps more importantly, overturn Citizen's United and further eliminate corporate influence in politics. Another concept is stakeholders rather than shareholders.

I can't agree. The whole point is that this is the system with the least regulation. Perhaps we can't get to zero regulation, but for those that favor it the closer the better.

The least regulation possible is no regulation which inherently produces corporatism.

If by "possible" you actually mean "without it causing serious harm to public welfare, inherently communal resources, and a functional democracy", then sure. But that requires a rather large amount (far more than now) amount of regulation to reach that optimal level.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-shows/?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

In an apparent rejection of the basic principles of the U.S. economy, a new poll shows that most young people do not support capitalism.
The Harvard University survey, which polled young adults between ages 18 and 29, found that 51 percent of respondents do not support capitalism. Just 42 percent said they support it.
....
"The word 'capitalism' doesn't mean what it used to," said Zach Lustbader, a senior at Harvard involved in conducting the poll, which was published Monday. For those who grew up during the Cold War, capitalism meant freedom from the Soviet Union and other totalitarian regimes. For those who grew up more recently, capitalism has meant a financial crisis from which the global economy still hasn't completely recovered.



----

And of course, right wingers on talk radio, TV et al telling us repeatedly that anything good and progressive is "socialism".

Okay. However, check out the following quote from the linked story: "Just 27 percent believe government should play a large role in regulating the economy, the Harvard poll found, and just 30 percent think the government should play a large role in reducing income inequality. Only 26 percent said government spending is an effective way to increase economic growth."

IOW, most young adults in the US are dangerously ignorant morons.
Stop the presses.

BTW, it is the same ignorance underlying their lack of understanding of what "capitalism" means and thus their contradictory views that also underlies their negative view regulation and controlling income inequality, due to their ignorance in how these are central to any sustainable system that supports the values, causes, and progress most of them think are important.
 
Evidence?

All this talk about "hard work" I find silly. Why is easy work supposed to be so horrible? As long as it is productive, why is it supposed to be a horrible sin?

Any kind of work is fine. It's those who demand hand outs that's the problem.

Any kind of work is NOT fine. Any worthwhile (in the sense that accomplishing it confers a sense of worth and accomplishment upon the one who performs it) work is fine. I suppose that's what you meant by "productive"? Having tried once to do a job (high paying one at that) in the employ of a Company whose mission I could not have cared less about, and which involved tasks that provided absolutely no satisfaction for me beyond a paycheck, I can say that while some people thought I was "productive", I got no such sense. And very quickly I felt myself sinking into the sort of lifeless coma that I believes gives rise to all manner of irrational behavior.
 
Any kind of work is fine. It's those who demand hand outs that's the problem.

Any kind of work is NOT fine. Any worthwhile (in the sense that accomplishing it confers a sense of worth and accomplishment upon the one who performs it) work is fine. I suppose that's what you meant by "productive"? Having tried once to do a job (high paying one at that) in the employ of a Company whose mission I could not have cared less about, and which involved tasks that provided absolutely no satisfaction for me beyond a paycheck, I can say that while some people thought I was "productive", I got no such sense. And very quickly I felt myself sinking into the sort of lifeless coma that I believes gives rise to all manner of irrational behavior.

Angelo sounds like he is out for revenge against some salient exemplars and has no understanding of the basic problems we all face. "Any kind of work" is definitely not fine. We need a variety of work, both hard and not so hard that is directed to the continuation of the human race and the amelioration of environmental threats. We need a little more kindness in our policies toward people who are deprived of opportunity under the current system. Angelo seems too angry to understand any of that.:thinking:
 
Any kind of work is NOT fine. Any worthwhile (in the sense that accomplishing it confers a sense of worth and accomplishment upon the one who performs it) work is fine. I suppose that's what you meant by "productive"? Having tried once to do a job (high paying one at that) in the employ of a Company whose mission I could not have cared less about, and which involved tasks that provided absolutely no satisfaction for me beyond a paycheck, I can say that while some people thought I was "productive", I got no such sense. And very quickly I felt myself sinking into the sort of lifeless coma that I believes gives rise to all manner of irrational behavior.

Angelo sounds like he is out for revenge against some salient exemplars and has no understanding of the basic problems we all face. "Any kind of work" is definitely not fine. We need a variety of work, both hard and not so hard that is directed to the continuation of the human race and the amelioration of environmental threats. We need a little more kindness in our policies toward people who are deprived of opportunity under the current system. Angelo seems too angry to understand any of that.:thinking:

Angry nothing! I'm a realist. We live in a capitalist society whether you like it or not. And I'm aware that there's no such thing as a free lunch, as I've stated many times before. Ask not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for the country . [JFK]
 
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