Covid-19 miscellany

[Worldtraveller]

Watching how people "wear" masks has made me understand the high failure rate of condoms....

 

[ZiprHead]

FFS, the tyrants will not leave us alone;

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that it will appeal the ruling that lifted the federal mask mandate on planes, trains and transit systems, pending a decision by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that the order is still required for public health.

News

The mandate was due to expire soon anyway but the authoritarians can’t stand that it was a Trump appointed judge that quashed the mandate. TDS.

The judge who tossed mask mandate misunderstood public health law, legal experts say

The Biden administration relied on a piece of the Public Health Service Act to defend its COVID-19 mask mandate on airplanes and other forms of mass transit.

Specifically, the law says that if the government is trying to prevent the spread of communicable diseases, it can "provide for such inspection, fumigation, disinfection, sanitation, pest extermination, destruction of animals or articles found to be so infected or contaminated as to be sources of dangerous infection to human beings, and other measures, as in his judgment may be necessary."

The administration argued that masks qualified as "sanitation" under the law, but Mizelle disagreed, opting for a much narrower definition of the term that would exclude measures like face coverings. Legal experts say her interpretation missed the mark.

"If one of my students turned in this opinion as their final exam, I don't know if I would agree that they had gotten the analysis correct," said Erin Fuse Brown, a law professor at Georgia State University.

"It reads like someone who had decided the case and then tried to dress it up as legal reasoning without actually doing the legal reasoning," she added.

Unsurprising the ABA found her to be unqualified for the job she was given.

 

[crazyfingers]

But if you want more evidence, there are plenty of studies. Purely for example:

TS is indiferent to evidence. He will ignore yours and continue to falsely claim that masks are ineffective.

The effectiveness of masks has been known for over 100 years. I asked him why surgeons wear masks when operating on patients. Why do health care workers wear masks when interacting with patients. Why before the pandemic did my dentist wear a mask while working on my teeth. Question ignored.

 

[Metaphor]

Why before the pandemic did my dentist wear a mask while working on my teeth.

Because terrorists often hide their identities.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you had any idea what it is like for some people to wear masks, you would understand why we find it incomprehensible that people would wear one while alone in their car.

I catch public transport to work and masks are compulsory. As soon as I step off the mask comes off. I don't like the feeling of suffocation.

The feeling that the QOP taught you you have to feel.

The sheer fucking audacity. The absolute cunting gall you have to tell me I only feel suffocated by a mask because a message board (or whatever the fuck QOP is) taught me to feel it.

It is one thing to say 'yes, you find masks uncomfortable and that's unfortunate, but people need to wear masks in certain situations to protect others and it's a sacrifice you are going to have to make'.

It is quite another to say 'I don't feel bad wearing a mask and the only reason you say you feel bad is because you are a conspiracy theorist who was either tricked into having those corporal sensations or you are flat out lying'.

Loren: the fact that you think ten minutes alone in your car is not long enough for you to take off your mask is a demonstration not that masks are not extremely uncomfortable for many, but that your own response is the freakish outlier. People have experiences different to you, Loren. And your complete failure to even acknowledge their experiences is a sociopathic, gaslighting tactic.

Lots of people have to wear masks on the job. Strangely they don't have the experience that's so widespread amongst the deniers. Finding a mask suffocating is the outlier reaction. They don't screen medical school students for how they react to masks despite the 100% certainty they will have to wear them at times during their training.

Or are you wearing flimsy stuff that tends to get drawn in when you inhale? That junk won't do much good these days anyway.

Doesn't stop 'that junk' being made mandatory.

When the mandate was first made the low-grade stuff was still a big help and the good stuff wasn't available. Mandating N95 wasn't an option. (And a political football whether it was N95 or N95/KN95/KF94.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Obviously, nearly all masks are ineffective. I still wear a good mask, properly. I haven't gotten ill even once this year, despite the massive covid wave in January, and the fact that most years, by this time of the year I got the flu and several colds. Maybe I just got lucky, though - after all, my personal experience provides a bit but only a bit of info. Studies are much clearer: masks do work (fashion accessories that vaguely resemble masks do not, though, and nearly everyone chooses them rather than masks, at least over here).

Exactly. Masks only work if you take them seriously. This seriously colors the data on mask effectiveness--mostly it's comparing non-masked with crappily-masked, which against Omicron doesn't make much difference.

 

[Metaphor]

Lots of people have to wear masks on the job. Strangely they don't have the experience that's so widespread amongst the deniers. Finding a mask suffocating is the outlier reaction. They don't screen medical school students for how they react to masks despite the 100% certainty they will have to wear them at times during their training.

Yes, lots of people have to wear masks. That doesn't mean they like the feeling. Surgeons don't wear masks on the way home from surgery.

The fact that you wear masks in your car, alone, for ten minutes, is a sign you are an outlier. That's not normal. You are not normal. It's okay to not be normal. It's not okay to pretend your experience is universal and everyone else is a liar.

And the fact that you are tripling down on your 'denier' bullshit should make you ashamed but I'm sure it doesn't.

Toddlers rip off masks when you try to put them on them. I saw my mother struggle to breathe when she was in hospital because she was required to wear a mask (adding to the pain she was experiencing). You just have no empathy and no fucking idea.

When the mandate was first made the low-grade stuff was still a big help and the good stuff wasn't available. Mandating N95 wasn't an option. (And a political football whether it was N95 or N95/KN95/KF94.)

Well, the mask theatre continues, and so now we have a situation where it does almost nothing, and people suffer needlessly (suffering that I acknowledge you simply deny because it suits you).

 

[TSwizzle]

But if you want more evidence, there are plenty of studies. Purely for example:

That is not evidence that mask mandates stop the spread of a virus. It’s fiction based off a computer model. It’s something that never actually happened, it’s not even a study.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Watching how people "wear" masks has made me understand the high failure rate of condoms....

Conflicted... should I "Like", "Cry", or "LOL"?

 

[TomC]

That is not evidence that mask mandates stop the spread of a virus. It’s fiction based off a computer model. It’s something that never actually happened, it’s not even a study.

This is a big part of the problem. C19 is a novel(new) virus. It might seem like the covid problem has been going on forever, but it really hasn't.

Other diseases, like rubella, polio, and flu have decades of research behind treatment and prevention methods. C19 doesn't. Researchers and statisticians and such are doing their best to sort it out, but they are not, and can not, figure out everything in a couple of years.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

FFS, the tyrants will not leave us alone;

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that it will appeal the ruling that lifted the federal mask mandate on planes, trains and transit systems, pending a decision by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that the order is still required for public health.

News

The mandate was due to expire soon anyway but the authoritarians can’t stand that it was a Trump appointed judge that quashed the mandate. TDS.

Actually, the question is do courts have the right to meddle in pandemic mitigation. Should the military oversee the SEC and the EPA have oversight on military operations? The CDC was created for the purpose of "Disease Control", in the name of the organization. The idea that a judge can arbitrarily overthrow regulations within the purview seems extraordinarily dangerous to policy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But if you want more evidence, there are plenty of studies. Purely for example:

That is not evidence that mask mandates stop the spread of a virus. It’s fiction based off a computer model. It’s something that never actually happened, it’s not even a study.

Masks reduce transmission. They were never the best way to do so.

 

[TSwizzle]

FFS, the tyrants will not leave us alone;

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that it will appeal the ruling that lifted the federal mask mandate on planes, trains and transit systems, pending a decision by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that the order is still required for public health.

News

The mandate was due to expire soon anyway but the authoritarians can’t stand that it was a Trump appointed judge that quashed the mandate. TDS.

Actually, the question is do courts have the right to meddle in pandemic mitigation. Should the military oversee the SEC and the EPA have oversight on military operations? The CDC was created for the purpose of "Disease Control", in the name of the organization. The idea that a judge can arbitrarily overthrow regulations within the purview seems extraordinarily dangerous to policy.

Take the Chinese route, nail the doors shut? No thank you.

And the arbitrary mandate was not arbitrarily overthrown.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

FFS, the tyrants will not leave us alone;

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that it will appeal the ruling that lifted the federal mask mandate on planes, trains and transit systems, pending a decision by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that the order is still required for public health.

News

The mandate was due to expire soon anyway but the authoritarians can’t stand that it was a Trump appointed judge that quashed the mandate. TDS.

Actually, the question is do courts have the right to meddle in pandemic mitigation. Should the military oversee the SEC and the EPA have oversight on military operations? The CDC was created for the purpose of "Disease Control", in the name of the organization. The idea that a judge can arbitrarily overthrow regulations within the purview seems extraordinarily dangerous to policy.

Take the Chinese route, nail the doors shut? No thank you.

Masks on a circulated air vehicle where people are closely packed together... isn't "taking the Chinese route". I understand why you desperately cling to hyperbole, but that doesn't make your choice to do so rational.

And the arbitrary mandate was not arbitrarily overthrown.

Yes, it was. The judge was not in a position to appropriately review the medical and pandemic mitigation reasoning behind the existence of the mandate. The judge was needlessly and arbitrarily meddling in CDC protocol.

 

[TomC]

Take the Chinese route, nail the doors shut? No thank you.

I wasn't there, so I can only go by English language reports.

My understanding of "the Chinese route" was hard core lockdowns and zillions of yuan spending on new hospitals and massive delivery of needed stuff(like food and prescription meds) directly to the people.

The Chinese people also took the threat seriously, so they abided by the draconian rules. Instead of looking for justification for spreading the virus, the way many Americans did.


And if you look at statistics, the Chinese route caused a lot less economic damage than the American route.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

Masks on a circulated air vehicle where people are closely packed together... isn't "taking the Chinese route". I understand why you desperately cling to hyperbole, but that doesn't make your choice to do so rational.

It’s not just about worthless face mask mandates, the pro lockdown CDC would love the powers of the Chinese. No thanks, we still have rights.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Lots of people have to wear masks on the job. Strangely they don't have the experience that's so widespread amongst the deniers. Finding a mask suffocating is the outlier reaction. They don't screen medical school students for how they react to masks despite the 100% certainty they will have to wear them at times during their training.

Yes, lots of people have to wear masks. That doesn't mean they like the feeling. Surgeons don't wear masks on the way home from surgery.

The fact that you wear masks in your car, alone, for ten minutes, is a sign you are an outlier. That's not normal. You are not normal. It's okay to not be normal. It's not okay to pretend your experience is universal and everyone else is a liar.

I'm certainly not the only one who does it. You just assume the people you see alone with a mask are nut cases rather than realizing it's just people who don't consider it worth taking off for a short period.

Or consider another observation: I would say the portion of the population wearing the high grade stuff is in the 5-10% range around here--and I can't recall ever seeing someone remove one as soon as they were outdoors.

And the fact that you are tripling down on your 'denier' bullshit should make you ashamed but I'm sure it doesn't.

Toddlers rip off masks when you try to put them on them. I saw my mother struggle to breathe when she was in hospital because she was required to wear a mask (adding to the pain she was experiencing). You just have no empathy and no fucking idea.

I've seen plenty of toddlers not ripping off masks. Notably, in every case they were Asian. Their parents actually took the time to teach them to wear a mask rather than consider it impossible.

When the mandate was first made the low-grade stuff was still a big help and the good stuff wasn't available. Mandating N95 wasn't an option. (And a political football whether it was N95 or N95/KN95/KF94.)

Well, the mask theatre continues, and so now we have a situation where it does almost nothing, and people suffer needlessly (suffering that I acknowledge you simply deny because it suits you).

I deny it because in almost all cases is psychosomatic.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But if you want more evidence, there are plenty of studies. Purely for example:

That is not evidence that mask mandates stop the spread of a virus. It’s fiction based off a computer model. It’s something that never actually happened, it’s not even a study.

We have to use computer models because the real test is completely unethical to do.

We do have a sort-of test, though: Red vs Blue counties. As time goes on the disease becomes redder and redder.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Take the Chinese route, nail the doors shut? No thank you.

I wasn't there, so I can only go by English language reports.

My understanding of "the Chinese route" was hard core lockdowns and zillions of yuan spending on new hospitals and massive delivery of needed stuff(like food and prescription meds) directly to the people.

The Chinese people also took the threat seriously, so they abided by the draconian rules. Instead of looking for justification for spreading the virus, the way many Americans did.


And if you look at statistics, the Chinese route caused a lot less economic damage than the American route.
Tom

Yes and no.

Pre-Omicron the Chinese route worked very well. Unfortunately, they wanted to pay in the big leagues and did a homebrew inactivated-virus vaccine rather than using the mRNA vaccines from the west. At least the mRNA vaccines usually prevent serious illness from Omicron even though they don't do a lot to stop you from catching it.

Omicron is overwhelming their containment measures, Shanghai and many of the areas around it are under severe lockdown and the resource distribution this time around is abysmal--yet it's not enough, cases are doubling every few days. Giving up on zero Covid means a huge death toll (I wouldn't be at all surprised at 7 figures) and they can't see that the war is lost. What we see is an awful lot of stupid measures made up on the spot and it looks like an awful lot of diversion of the food supplies.

 

[ZiprHead]

FFS, the tyrants will not leave us alone;

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that it will appeal the ruling that lifted the federal mask mandate on planes, trains and transit systems, pending a decision by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that the order is still required for public health.

News

The mandate was due to expire soon anyway but the authoritarians can’t stand that it was a Trump appointed judge that quashed the mandate. TDS.

Actually, the question is do courts have the right to meddle in pandemic mitigation. Should the military oversee the SEC and the EPA have oversight on military operations? The CDC was created for the purpose of "Disease Control", in the name of the organization. The idea that a judge can arbitrarily overthrow regulations within the purview seems extraordinarily dangerous to policy.

Take the Chinese route, nail the doors shut? No thank you.

Masks on a circulated air vehicle where people are closely packed together... isn't "taking the Chinese route". I understand why you desperately cling to hyperbole, but that doesn't make your choice to do so rational.

And the arbitrary mandate was not arbitrarily overthrown.

Yes, it was. The judge was not in a position to appropriately review the medical and pandemic mitigation reasoning behind the existence of the mandate. The judge was needlessly and arbitrarily meddling in CDC protocol.

She didn't even bother hearing oral arguments.