Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Copernicus]

Now that Putin's efforts have failed to help fellow fascist, Marine Le Pen, defeat France's President Macron, Macron feels free to become more openly supportive of Ukraine's resistance to the Russian invaders. He had been sending aid clandestinely, but now he is being more open about it. France will supply 40 Ukrainian artillery soldiers with 12 of its truck-mounted Caesar cannons. Americans tend to focus on what the US is doing to supply Ukraine with weapons and lamenting the fact that it isn't doing enough, but the support for Ukraine is strong in Europe and getting stronger. A Le Pen victory would have been a devastating blow to European unity, but Macron won so easily in part because of her supportive relationship with Putin. The Caesar cannons will be an extremely mobile and effective countermeasure to Putin's cowardly use of long range artillery to bombard civilian targets.

France’s victorious Macron boosts weapons, stakes in Ukraine​

“The best way to have successful talks is to have successful Ukrainians throwing back the Russian invasion,” said François Heisbourg, a French analyst on defense and security questions at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

The Caesars will allow their crews to go hunting for Russian artillery pieces being used in eastern Ukraine that are indiscriminately pummeling civilian targets.

“The Americans and the Poles and the Slovaks and the Belgians and the French and the Canadians are all sending heavy artillery to the Ukrainians,” Heisbourg said.

“That’s a really, really big improvement to the situation of Ukraine in the new phase of the war.”

 

[Patooka]

NATO is a bully here.

Russia: "Honey, look at what you made me do"

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Now that Putin's efforts have failed to help fellow fascist, Marine Le Pen, defeat France's President Macron, Macron feels free to become more openly supportive of Ukraine's resistance to the Russian invaders. He had been sending aid clandestinely, but now he is being more open about it. France will supply 40 Ukrainian artillery soldiers with 12 of its truck-mounted Caesar cannons. Americans tend to focus on what the US is doing to supply Ukraine with weapons and lamenting the fact that it isn't doing enough, but the support for Ukraine is strong in Europe and getting stronger. A Le Pen victory would have been a devastating blow to European unity, but Macron won so easily in part because of her supportive relationship with Putin. The Caesar cannons will be an extremely mobile and effective countermeasure to Putin's cowardly use of long range artillery to bombard civilian targets.

France’s victorious Macron boosts weapons, stakes in Ukraine​

“The best way to have successful talks is to have successful Ukrainians throwing back the Russian invasion,” said François Heisbourg, a French analyst on defense and security questions at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

The Caesars will allow their crews to go hunting for Russian artillery pieces being used in eastern Ukraine that are indiscriminately pummeling civilian targets.

“The Americans and the Poles and the Slovaks and the Belgians and the French and the Canadians are all sending heavy artillery to the Ukrainians,” Heisbourg said.

“That’s a really, really big improvement to the situation of Ukraine in the new phase of the war.”

Without long range indiscriminate bombing Russia doesn't do anything. Let's hope they're fucked once their artillery positions start blowing up.

 

[Elixir]

Let's hope they're fucked once their artillery positions start blowing up.

Based on Russian media’s version of events, we should expect to see them blowing themselves up soon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is a report out there of another oil fire 100 miles outside Ukraine toward Moscow. Diesel fuel and oil are burning. I'm sure Ukrainians are behind this. Those Ukrainian Nazis are trying to commit suicide again.

Do you think it might be russian soldiers who do not want to fight doing sabotage?
Genuine question, maybe that’s far out, but your posts made me wonder.

That is a genuine possibility. Good call. And there is plenty of activity otherwise in areas outside Ukraine to support the suggestion.

Russian explosions point to Ukraine's embrace of the British special forces model

With Russia forced to scale back its goals in the conflict, Ukraine has escalated its offensive operations in what's known as the "deep battlespace." This involves targeting of Russian logistics and command and control units deeper behind the front lines. Employing Western-provided drones and highly mobile small units, Ukraine is degrading and demoralizing Russia's war machine.

It's not a wild leap to expect that Ukraine is now applying these same tactics over the border inside Russia. This is likely a result of British training of the Ukrainian military.

Just thought to throw this out there. Seems quite possible, maybe even most likely.

But 100 miles behind enemy lines is beyond what I think they could pull off. That's beyond line of sight for a done unless you're controlling it from a high-flying airplane (or a satellite, but they don't have those) and said airplane would be at great risk. 100 miles is likewise quite a distance for a special forces raid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So apparently Russia has used an estimated 70% of its precision guided missiles In their inventory. That’s insane. They have seriously weakened their ability to deal with any other potential threats. The U.S. has depleted about a third of its javelins. But we have no serious other armored threat to us. We can easily deplete them significantly if they are put to good effect destroying Russian armor.

This war is a battle of supply. That’s why they hit rail stations yesterday. But they can’t sustain such hits.

This. The Javelins were built to kill Russian tanks. They're killing Russian tanks, as the stocks go down so does the job for them. And we can build more Javelins a lot easier than Russia can build new tanks.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So apparently Russia has used an estimated 70% of its precision guided missiles In their inventory. That’s insane. They have seriously weakened their ability to deal with any other potential threats. The U.S. has depleted about a third of its javelins. But we have no serious other armored threat to us. We can easily deplete them significantly if they are put to good effect destroying Russian armor.

This war is a battle of supply. That’s why they hit rail stations yesterday. But they can’t sustain such hits.

A spear is thrust upon it's shaft; the tip cannot thrust itself.

So too is a war waged by it's supply lines; the front cannot merely wage war alone.

And note how badly most videogames handle this. Logistics is generally reduced to a cost. Rarely does a game even have a concept of a cut-off unit and never have I seen a war game where ammunition depletion is a factor between engagements. (You do see ammunition and the like in RPGs, but generally you carry ammunition enough for many battles.)

 

[SLD]

So apparently Russia has used an estimated 70% of its precision guided missiles In their inventory. That’s insane. They have seriously weakened their ability to deal with any other potential threats. The U.S. has depleted about a third of its javelins. But we have no serious other armored threat to us. We can easily deplete them significantly if they are put to good effect destroying Russian armor.

This war is a battle of supply. That’s why they hit rail stations yesterday. But they can’t sustain such hits.

This. The Javelins were built to kill Russian tanks. They're killing Russian tanks, as the stocks go down so does the job for them. And we can build more Javelins a lot easier than Russia can build new tanks.

Yes, I read somewhere that we could make about 6,000 a year if we ramped up production. But who else do we need them for? Let the Ukrainians have all of them. If Russia is defeated, it will radically change the security situation in the world.

ETA: now it’s reported that Germany is sending tanks to Ukraine. Good idea. What use are tanks to Germany at this point? Russia has bogged itself into a quagmire, and it doesn’t have the capability to attack anyone else. If they are defeated, they’ll be weakened for decades after this.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But you're missing the point! The issue here is that Finland and Sweden want to join Nato because they feel bullied by Russia

Nope. They are being bullied by .... NATO. The same way NATO bullied all newcomers since 1999. Some were willing more, some less, but they were all bullied by US into joining NATO.

The reason Sweden and Finland waited until now with joining NATO is because they were earlier afraid of how Russia would react. In practice, both countries have been a part of NATO right from the start (1949). They have openly shared information across militaries and have made joint military exercises with NATO, just as if having been full members. But out of fear of Russia, they didn't make it official. But they have wanted to join all the time. At no point have NATO bullied them to join. That's an absurd statement. Russia has previously been bullying them not to join.

The reason they are now officially joining is because the cold war just turned hot. The time of diplomacy and polite tap dancing gestures is over. Both Sweden and Finland is preparing, for what they see as an inevitable war with Russia. The fact that Russia isn't in a position to attack today, doesn't mean Russia won't be later. What the Ukraine war changed is that the Finish-Russian border will be treated as the DMZ in Korea. Putin is now seen as the Kim Jong-Un of our back yard.

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

 

[barbos]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

 

[bilby]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

Well, I was leaning towards agreeing with DrZoidberg, but the depth and detail in your rebuttal has truly given me food for thought. It clearly required considerable diligent research on your part, and the links to the original research that supports your position make it truly compelling.

 

[Patooka]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

Let me guess - they're Nazis too.

 

[barbos]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

Well, I was leaning towards agreeing with DrZoidberg, but the depth and detail in your rebuttal has truly given me food for thought. It clearly required considerable diligent research on your part, and the links to the original research that supports your position make it truly compelling.

DrZoidberg is well known for talking out of his ass.
All finns left soviet occupied parts of the Finland.
There are no finns there, none.
Same way there are no germans in territories Poland got from Germany after WW2.
None.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

Let me guess - they're Nazis too.

I laughed for five minutes regarding the above! But the Russians can manufacture any excuse to invade any country that they deem that they can bully. And Putin has no credibility to negotiate with. The only thing that Putin understands is force. The west has to continue sending the arms to countries willing to stand up against Russia. Russia won't invade Finland once it joins Nato.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Mysterious Explosions Throughout Russia, Belgorod Ammunition Depot on Fire

Woot! Bring it on! I hope they are able to target every fuel depot, pipeline and storage facility within 100 miles of their border.

The sound of explosions broke the stillness of the night in Russia's Belgorod province, near the border with Ukraine, where Russian media reported an ammunition depot was on fire.

The more the better.

 

[Elixir]

I hope they are able to target every fuel depot, pipeline and storage facility within 1000 miles of their border.

FIFY
Why stop at 100 mi? It's a WAR.
The whole damn Country should be fair game.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

Well, I was leaning towards agreeing with DrZoidberg, but the depth and detail in your rebuttal has truly given me food for thought. It clearly required considerable diligent research on your part, and the links to the original research that supports your position make it truly compelling.

DrZoidberg is well known for talking out of his ass.
All finns left soviet occupied parts of the Finland.
There are no finns there, none.
Same way there are no germans in territories Poland got from Germany after WW2.
None.

So who are the Ingrians and Karelians? When did they vacate their homeland after WW2? Have they stopped speaking Finnish? It isn't DrZoidberg who is talking out of his ass here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, I read somewhere that we could make about 6,000 a year if we ramped up production. But who else do we need them for? Let the Ukrainians have all of them. If Russia is defeated, it will radically change the security situation in the world.

ETA: now it’s reported that Germany is sending tanks to Ukraine. Good idea. What use are tanks to Germany at this point? Russia has bogged itself into a quagmire, and it doesn’t have the capability to attack anyone else. If they are defeated, they’ll be weakened for decades after this.

I've got to ponder "sending tanks to Ukraine" isn't quite as simple and fait accompli as Prime Shipping.

 

[Jayjay]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

That's correct. Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

Finnish population was evacuated and those who refused to leave were sent to Siberia or forcibly russified. That war is in the past, but if Russia wants to keep Finland out of NATO, here is my suggestion: give back Karelia and Pechengsky in exchange for Finland remaining out of the alliance, and I'm 100% sure that we'd take the deal.

 

[Jayjay]

Russia still occupies 10% of Finland's territory, which they nabbed in WW2. These are ethnically Finnish and still Finnish speaking regions. Neither Finland nor Sweden have forgotten this.

nope.

Well, I was leaning towards agreeing with DrZoidberg, but the depth and detail in your rebuttal has truly given me food for thought. It clearly required considerable diligent research on your part, and the links to the original research that supports your position make it truly compelling.

DrZoidberg is well known for talking out of his ass.
All finns left soviet occupied parts of the Finland.
There are no finns there, none.
Same way there are no germans in territories Poland got from Germany after WW2.
None.

So who are the Ingrians and Karelians? When did they vacate their homeland after WW2? Have they stopped speaking Finnish?

Ingrians were massively persecuted in USSR and practically eradicated. According to Wikipedia 98% of them speak Russian now. Karelians have their own language, though closely related to Finnish.

To say that Finland (or Sweden, the original owner) should get Karelia back because of ethnic groups is simply false. There is nothing left, they're ethnically cleansed from the annexed territories. It's the same thing Russia is doing in Crimea and fake "people's republics" in Donbas (and elsewhere): most who Ukrainians who don't speak Russian or don't agree with Russian rule have left, the remaining people are being "filtered" (i.e. anyone who could resist the occupation is killed or deported) and brainwashed with Russian propaganda.