Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[barbos]

About ukrainians tactics, hard to tell if it's real but it's funny as hell (to a russian ear especially)

I think it's not real, explosion would have been much bigger.
OK, my ukrainian is very basic but it's definitely a joke, but very funny joke
He seems to be saying it's a special smart mine which targets russian separatists.

 

[barbos]

Russian Offensive Howgozit Report

Opinions from various sources and good info in this RFE/RL story.

It looks like Russian troops are just trying to walk the line between following orders and staying alive. Attacks are coming piecemeal and there doesn't seem to be the ability for a major push now or in the future. Could be a dangerous time in these next few weeks. If Vlad sees this as a conventional bust across Ukraine, what does he do?
Hopefully May 9th will pass uneventfully.

Bullcrap. Unlike US in Iraq/Syria, russian millitary are trying to avoid civilian and infrastructure losses. That's why it seems slow to you with your carpet bombing strategies.
After all, these are all russian people and russian territory and future russian infrastructure.
UN own numbers confirms that.

 

[Copernicus]

About ukrainians tactics, hard to tell if it's real but it's funny as hell (to a russian ear especially)

I think it's not real, explosion would have been much bigger.
OK, my ukrainian is very basic but it's definitely a joke, but very funny joke
He seems to be saying it's a special smart mine which targets russian separatists.

IOW, barbos admits that this is just another fake video, but he posts it anyway as if it were some kind of significant comment on the Ukrainian resistance to Russia's unprovoked invasion of their country. Why would it matter what the actor in the Russian video is saying? It only matters to Russians who desperately cling to failed stereotypes of the Ukrainian armed resistance, which has proven to be surprisingly effective against a larger, better-equipped invasion force that lacks motivation and competent leadership. BTW, the Russian headline in the video uses obscene language, so we know that it wasn't intended as a serious video.

Ебать в ВСУ интеллектуалы, пиздец просто -- Roughly "Fuck the APU intellectuals, just fucked up"

 

[barbos]

I just want to say that I value Barbos perspective in this thread. I think it's wrong, bonkers and badly twisted. But it is the Russian version of the war narrative. A narrative that I don't think I would have fully understood without his input.

I always value learning other people's perspective. It's always good getting a reality check.

No, what is bonkers is a swede thinking that ukrainian language has a lot of german words in it.

Your heads are full of shit like that. Even heads of your government critters are full of shit like that. They know nothing about history, geography or anything relevant, they can't even learn to pronounce names of the cities correctly.

 

[barbos]

About ukrainians tactics, hard to tell if it's real but it's funny as hell (to a russian ear especially)

I think it's not real, explosion would have been much bigger.
OK, my ukrainian is very basic but it's definitely a joke, but very funny joke
He seems to be saying it's a special smart mine which targets russian separatists.

Damn, I have good memory. I recalled that mines and shells are designed in such a way that it would be impossible for it to explode without prior cocking acceleration in the barrel.
So it's very funny joke at the expense of the ukrainians.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I just want to say that I value Barbos perspective in this thread. I think it's wrong, bonkers and badly twisted. But it is the Russian version of the war narrative. A narrative that I don't think I would have fully understood without his input.

I always value learning other people's perspective. It's always good getting a reality check.

No, what is bonkers is a swede thinking that ukrainian language has a lot of german words in it.

Your heads are full of shit like that. Even heads of your government critters are full of shit like that. They know nothing about history, geography or anything relevant, they can't even learn to pronounce names of the cities correctly.

I am at this very moment dating a Ukranian woman. So I think I am, as far as westerners go, fairly well informed.

I think it's safe to say that Ukraine has for centuries tried to break Russian dominance, be more open to the west and become more independent. Russia has always been domineering and exploitative. Ukraine wasn't included into Russia as part of Russia proper until 1783. That's not that long ago. Before that it was various vassal states or as a piece in the Ottoman, Austrian-Hungarian game of European chess.

Finland was an integral part of Sweden since it's founding (almost a millennia) and we don't go on and on about wanting that back. The idea that just because your country used to rule another, you have a right to it in perpetuity is stupid, and a recipe for eternal war. And what's more, Sweden's claim to Finland is way stronger, culturally, ethnically and historically than Russia. Yet, it's Russia who keeps trying to get it back.

It's got nothing to do with history. It's got to do with power. Russia has attacked the Ukraine because it thinks it can get away with it. I think it's that simple. And the International community has a responsibility to help protect it against a continuation of Russian bullying. Seeing Western attempts to protect Ukraine as bullying, is just bizarre IMHO.

Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[barbos]

I just want to say that I value Barbos perspective in this thread. I think it's wrong, bonkers and badly twisted. But it is the Russian version of the war narrative. A narrative that I don't think I would have fully understood without his input.

I always value learning other people's perspective. It's always good getting a reality check.

No, what is bonkers is a swede thinking that ukrainian language has a lot of german words in it.

Your heads are full of shit like that. Even heads of your government critters are full of shit like that. They know nothing about history, geography or anything relevant, they can't even learn to pronounce names of the cities correctly.

I am at this very moment dating a Ukranian woman. So I think I am, as far as westerners go, fairly well informed.

I think it's safe to say that Ukraine has for centuries tried to break Russian dominance, be more open to the west and become more independent. Russia has always been domineering and exploitative. Ukraine wasn't included into Russia as part of Russia proper until 1783. That's not that long ago. Before that it was various vassal states or as a piece in the Ottoman, Austrian-Hungarian game of European chess.

Utter bullshit. Did she tell you all of that? The thing about german words too?
Did she tell you about 400 thousands years old Ukraine too?
He is dating ukrainian woman, my ass.
What the fuck are you even suggesting? going back to 1783?
great, half of the current Ukraine will be Russia, you want that? I am fine with that.
Why not go to 9th century and give it to Sweden, cause two swedish fuckers were ruling in Kiev. Still, half of the Ukraine will be Russia
And "Ukraine" will have no access to Black Sea. You want that? Putin will sign it Yesterday. Just so you know.

Putin described Ukraine-Russia links very well in his speech before "invasion"
Current regime in Kiev has nothing to do with historicaly russian Ukraine.
Politically and culturally they are Western Ukraine people which is not Ukraine at all.
It was a Poland with significant ukrainian population which were not considered to be people by poles. They had no rights in Poland becasue they were not catholic. The only way to become a person in Poland was to switch to catolicism and effectively become a pole. Many did. Still at the first chance they got under Hitler they started murdering both poles and jews.

On the other hand we have Russian part of the Ukraine which included Kiev. They were treated as people in Russian Empire. All the current crap is due to centuries long polish persecution of ukrainians. Russian Ukraine has been fine. And it will be fine once it goes back to Russia. And I am not talking about Eastern "Ukraine" and Crimea. They are not Ukraine at all. I am talking about Kiev and around.

Western Ukraine can go back to Poland, good luck to ukrainians in Poland

 

[DrZoidberg]

I just want to say that I value Barbos perspective in this thread. I think it's wrong, bonkers and badly twisted. But it is the Russian version of the war narrative. A narrative that I don't think I would have fully understood without his input.

I always value learning other people's perspective. It's always good getting a reality check.

No, what is bonkers is a swede thinking that ukrainian language has a lot of german words in it.

Your heads are full of shit like that. Even heads of your government critters are full of shit like that. They know nothing about history, geography or anything relevant, they can't even learn to pronounce names of the cities correctly.

I am at this very moment dating a Ukranian woman. So I think I am, as far as westerners go, fairly well informed.

I think it's safe to say that Ukraine has for centuries tried to break Russian dominance, be more open to the west and become more independent. Russia has always been domineering and exploitative. Ukraine wasn't included into Russia as part of Russia proper until 1783. That's not that long ago. Before that it was various vassal states or as a piece in the Ottoman, Austrian-Hungarian game of European chess.

Utter bullshit. Did she tell you all of that?

She told me that nobody in the Ukraine wants to be part of Russia and they're all hoping the West will protect them. Wikipedia told me the rest.

The thing about german words too?

I said Germanic. And I'm still right. You are just wrong.

Did she tell you about 400 thousands years old Ukraine too?
He is dating ukrainian woman, my ass.
What the fuck are you even suggesting? going back to 1783?
great, half of the current Ukraine will be Russia, you want that? I am fine with that.
Why not go to 9th century and give it to Sweden, cause two swedish fuckers were ruling in Kiev. Still, half of the Ukraine will be Russia
And "Ukraine" will have no access to Black Sea. You want that? Putin will sign it Yesterday. Just so you know.

Exactly. You've grasped how power politics work. Just because you have a bigger gun, doesn't give you the right to invade others. Might does NOT make right.

Russia doesn't have a right to have access to the Black Sea. Nobody has a right to anything. Politics is about getting along and peaceful compromise. Being good neighbors. Great Britain had the largest empire in human history. It fell apart half a century ago. They have very little to show for it today. Great Britain should be a warning example to any imperialist. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. In the end, soft power, is what counts. Having international goodwill. You still need weapons and power. But other things are as important if you want to have influence in the world.

I have a story from a Swedish friend who was a journalist in Afghanistan during the US led invasion. The two big news players were CNN and BBC. BBC went out of their way to help journalists from other countries. CNN did their best to keep good stories for themselves. The end result was that BBC good all the good scoops. Because they kept getting tips and ins from a lot of the people they helped. Sometimes being generous is the most self serving thing you can do. Something I hope Russia will learn soon.

 

[barbos]

She told me that nobody in the Ukraine wants to be part of Russia and they're all hoping the West will protect them. Wikipedia told me the rest.

Congratulations, she is lying to you and is probably a nazi, or simply stupid.

Russia doesn't have a right to have access to the Black Sea. Nobody has a right to anything. Politics is about getting along and peaceful compromise.

You're are telling me that? you want russians to go along with Ukrainians government officials openly calling for hanging russians? in 2014?

I said Germanic. And I'm still right. You are just wrong.

No, ukrainian does not have germanic words.
What is the point of that anyway? Where are you going with this BS?

 

[barbos]

I have a story from a Swedish friend who was a journalist in Afghanistan during the US led invasion. The two big news players were CNN and BBC. BBC went out of their way to help journalists from other countries. CNN did their best to keep good stories for themselves. The end result was that BBC good all the good scoops. Because they kept getting tips and ins from a lot of the people they helped. Sometimes being generous is the most self serving thing you can do. Something I hope Russia will learn soon.

And?

 

[barbos]

In awkward news:
Poland is taking away ukrainian flags and other stuff from places and mass transit transport. I guess they think they showed enough support and everything is back to normal.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

I just want to say that I value Barbos perspective in this thread. I think it's wrong, bonkers and badly twisted. But it is the Russian version of the war narrative. A narrative that I don't think I would have fully understood without his input.

I always value learning other people's perspective. It's always good getting a reality check.

No, what is bonkers is a swede thinking that ukrainian language has a lot of german words in it.

Your heads are full of shit like that. Even heads of your government critters are full of shit like that. They know nothing about history, geography or anything relevant, they can't even learn to pronounce names of the cities correctly.

I am at this very moment dating a Ukranian woman. So I think I am, as far as westerners go, fairly well informed.

I think it's safe to say that Ukraine has for centuries tried to break Russian dominance, be more open to the west and become more independent. Russia has always been domineering and exploitative. Ukraine wasn't included into Russia as part of Russia proper until 1783. That's not that long ago. Before that it was various vassal states or as a piece in the Ottoman, Austrian-Hungarian game of European chess.

Finland was an integral part of Sweden since it's founding (almost a millennia) and we don't go on and on about wanting that back. The idea that just because your country used to rule another, you have a right to it in perpetuity is stupid, and a recipe for eternal war. And what's more, Sweden's claim to Finland is way stronger, culturally, ethnically and historically than Russia. Yet, it's Russia who keeps trying to get it back.

It's got nothing to do with history. It's got to do with power. Russia has attacked the Ukraine because it thinks it can get away with it. I think it's that simple. And the International community has a responsibility to help protect it against a continuation of Russian bullying. Seeing Western attempts to protect Ukraine as bullying, is just bizarre IMHO.

Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The whole thing is over the Pereislav Agreement and the Eternal Peace Treaty only a generation thereafter, isn't it? From what I read, the Tsars agreed to provide protection for Ukraine in return for an oath of allegiance by the Hetman to the Tsar, which justified Russian sovereignty being described in a conclusion to the Russo-Polish War, but after the Tsar abused that agreement and did nothing at all to hold up Russia's end of the bargain, Hetman Ivan Mazepa reasoned that if the agreement was not held to be binding by the Tsar, then the agreement had already been broken. As far as I understand, the Russian government has been attempting to treat Ukraine like a disobedient Russian province ever since in spite of the fact that Ukraine's peasants never even slightly complied with Sophie's demands that they live under the system of serfdom, and they never cared a fig for the Tsars.

You might have thought that the aid of the Black Army in overturning the Romanov regime would have been taken, by the Russians, as a hint that they did not really feel any particular loyalty toward the Tsar, which I think they subtly implied by helping to exterminate his entire family and lay waste to his government, but the Bolsheviks, rather than accepting this hint, decided that they had somehow inherited the Ukraine's supposed (but never practically enforceable) obligations under the Pereislav Agreement in spite of the fact that that agreement had been based on an oath of allegiance to a piece of crap that they had conspired to utterly extirpate from existence.

The later Eternal Peace Treaty was also nothing more than a formality that ended the Russo-Polish war, and Russia's putative sovereignty over Ukraine, per that agreement, was based on the oath of allegiance taken by the Hetmans to the Tsar, whose entire family had been exterminated on account of the Tsar being a truly sick motherfucker.

If the Pereislav Agreement was not rendered as utterly null and void as possible by the Holodomor, then we might as well just say that Russia is never going to consider themselves to be obligated to hold up their own end of any agreement that they ever sign, and if that is the case, then I argue that nobody is really obligated to take the Russian government seriously in regard to any matter whatsoever.

However, I am saying this as an ignorant barefoot bumpkin from some benighted county in rural Amurica, so I would take any correction you might make to that over my own judgment.

Then again, I am also a dragon, and dragons tend to read a lot.

 

[Jarhyn]

I just want to say that I value Barbos perspective in this thread. I think it's wrong, bonkers and badly twisted. But it is the Russian version of the war narrative. A narrative that I don't think I would have fully understood without his input.

I always value learning other people's perspective. It's always good getting a reality check.

Barbos' blind devotion to a fascist dictator has a very real human life cost. Your take is a little naive.

I too value knowing what Barbos believes. Having a window into Putin's throught process is invaluable because it informs us of what messages of propaganda we need to rip apart and show truth of.

 

[DrZoidberg]

A friend in the Swedish military tells me they have now switched to a stance where war with Russia is likely and inevitable. That's what they are training for. Finland and Sweden were already allied. But now they are having joint excercises. For practical purposes Sweden and Finland now has a single unified army designed with a single purpose, defending against Russian aggression.

I see Sweden and Finland joining NATO ASAP as a given. Once that is final Denmark and Norway will add their troops to the Finish defence. And perhaps more importantly, their money.

Yes, I know, soldiers always assume the worst. It is their job. But the degree to that they take this recent development seriously is pretty scary.

Both world wars went from very peaceful to war in a very short time. Things can quickly spiral out of control

 

[Gun Nut]

Russian forces are hunting down .... ukrainian railroad transformer stations to prevent western military crap from reaching destination.
Some said they are easily replaceable. But then ukrainian news reported they were running out of parts. I personally doubt the logic behind it. Nothing prevents nazi forces from using diesel powered trains, destroying railroads itself makes more sense to me.

Also there was ukrainian fake about wheat being shipped from Eastern Ukraine to Russia to cause famine. Turned out it was ukrainian fake. But then Ukrainian Führer announced great victory for Ukraine when EU lifted all tariffs and limits on .... agricultural products from Ukraine

You ok? You are sounding more and more desperate lately.... Is this what Russian state-owned media is broadcasting? It must be very hard to keep the lies straight when you have access to unrestricted information over the internet, unlike actual Russian people that actually live in Russia.

 

[barbos]

You ok? You are sounding more and more desperate lately.... Is this what Russian state-owned media is broadcasting?

I am OK, are you?
I was talking about Ukrainian news, not russian. Ukrainian news reported all of that.
Do you understand the difference between these two?
They are the source of all of that.

 

[Gun Nut]

More about US critters flat out admitting the shit they are doing.
Pentagon admitted what Mearsheimer was correct.

Cite, please.

US is using Ukrainians as a cannon fodder against Russia. Russia can't win, cause China is watching I guess.
They don't care about Ukraine one way or another, all they care is hurting Russia.

Cite, please.

Some Pentagon critter.
Are you surprised they admit that or you simply gullible enough to believe "Ukraine, Democracy, freedom and shit!"?

Neither... we are calling you a liar... or a fool for believing some random person standing on a soapbox in the street.
A citation is required to have an opinion on whatever it is you are attempting to claim.

 

[Gun Nut]

You ok? You are sounding more and more desperate lately.... Is this what Russian state-owned media is broadcasting?

I am OK, are you?
I was talking about Ukrainian news, not russian. Ukrainian news reported all of that.
Do you understand the difference between these two?
They are the source of all of that.

link (citation), or you are just making stuff up.

 

[barbos]

You ok? You are sounding more and more desperate lately.... Is this what Russian state-owned media is broadcasting?

I am OK, are you?
I was talking about Ukrainian news, not russian. Ukrainian news reported all of that.
Do you understand the difference between these two?
They are the source of all of that.

link (citation), or you are just making stuff up.

Nope, I am not giving you any links. And I explained why

 

[Gun Nut]

If your ideological oponents go silent, that doesn't mean you won the argument.

It does when they are children yelling in the back of the car that it is just NOT FAIR that his sister cuts the cake and he has to choose which piece to eat. Silence is everything.