No thread on Patrick Lyoya?

[Derec]

If that officer was fast enough to realize that "Action is faster than reaction" and shoot to kill in the back of the head, he was fast enough to back off.

Why should police officer have to back off in light of a perp resisting arrest?

 

[Derec]

It used to be that cowardice was the presumption of shooting someone in the back until sufficient evidence showed otherwise.

Evidence is in the video.

Are you seriously arguing that shooting someone in the back of the head is justified because of what they might do? Do you really how effed up that is?

Once the perp uses deadly force it might be too late, so yes, on some level, yes, it is necessary to shoot based on what they might do.

 

[Derec]

Sigh. Way to miss the point. The police managed to rescue someone held hostage WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT. I mean there were SWAT teams there! And no one was injured.

Every situation is different. That most police actions get resolved without firing a shot does not mean the Lyoya case is ipso facto unjustified.
And the presence of SWAT probably contributed to a peaceful resolution. Peace through strength type of thing. Same reason why Lalo decided not to shoot it out with the cop once more of them showed up.
Schurr, on the other hand, was alone, and thus more vulnerable to any threatening behavior by Lyoya.
That is why I support two man patrols. #fundThePolice

 

[Derec]

Well, the guys who attempted to rob my in-laws were…black. SWAT still managed to not kill them.

Impossible! If #BLM has taught me anything is that all black suspects get shot on sight while all white ones are taken to Burger King. /s

 

[Derec]

The better safe than sorry principle only applies to law enforcement in Derec's world.

Nah. I think it would apply to you as well, if for example you should find yourself faced with a carjacker.

 

[Toni]

If that officer was fast enough to realize that "Action is faster than reaction" and shoot to kill in the back of the head, he was fast enough to back off.

Why should police officer have to back off in light of a perp resisting arrest?

So no one gets killed, for one thing.

 

[Elixir]

. You didn't try to fight the cop or grab any of his weapons. But you know that very well.

I was lucky:
* I had witnesses
* I knew about cowboy cops on the Boulder PD and,
Most important-
* I AM WHITE

 

[Gospel]

The better safe than sorry principle only applies to law enforcement in Derec's world.

Nah. I think it would apply to you as well, if for example you should find yourself faced with a carjacker.

Yeah, but certainly not for officers who might open fire on me because they "fear for their life" without cause. After all, how could I be certain when that is the case? Better safe than sorry right?

 

[Gun Nut]

And as they say, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six!

Pretty sure "they" includes Timonthy Loehman and excludes Tamir Rice and his family.

Definitely not. They (specifically) certainly thought the risk of being carried by 6 was far better than the risk of being judged by 12... that is exactly why they chose the route they took... better dead than in jail.

 

[Elixir]

Derec’s wall of (12) posts in a row bespeaks desperation to rationalize his own previous statements. But I didn’t see where he named a single blacks person who was unjustly executed by cowboy cops.
Did anyone else see that?
(His drivel is too boring to read 12 posts in a row).

 

[ZiprHead]

Derec’s wall of (12) posts in a row bespeaks desperation to rationalize his own previous statements. But I didn’t see where he named a single blacks person who was unjustly executed by cowboy cops.
Did anyone else see that?
(His drivel is too boring to read 12 posts in a row).

The cops that shot the unarmed guy 12 times in the video I posted above are being charged with manslaughter.

 

[laughing dog]

If that officer was fast enough to realize that "Action is faster than reaction" and shoot to kill in the back of the head, he was fast enough to back off.

Why should police officer have to back off in light of a perp resisting arrest?

The fact you feel the need to ask that question speaks volumes. Resisting arrest is not an automatic death sentence penalty in the USA.

 

[laughing dog]

Well, the guys who attempted to rob my in-laws were…black. SWAT still managed to not kill them.

Impossible! If #BLM has taught me anything is that all black suspects get shot on sight while all white ones are taken to Burger King.

It is pretty clear #BLM has taught you nothing.

It used to be that cowardice was the presumption of shooting someone in the back until sufficient evidence showed otherwise.

Evidence is in the video.

Nope.

Are you seriously arguing that shooting someone in the back of the head is justified because of what they might do? Do you really how effed up that is?

Once the perp uses deadly force it might be too late, so yes, on some level, yes, it is necessary to shoot based on what they might do.

Wow, the police have carte blanche to kill based on what they "perceive" (something the public or the justice system can never know for certain) someone might do.

You do realize such a policy would give credence to private citizens killing police officers based on what they feel the officers might do.

 

[laughing dog]

And as they say, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six!

Pretty sure "they" includes Timonthy Loehman and excludes Tamir Rice and his family.

Definitely not. They (specifically) certainly thought the risk of being carried by 6 was far better than the risk of being judged by 12... that is exactly why they chose the route they took... better dead than in jail.

What? Timothy Loehman did not so such thing - he is alive and well and free after killing unarmed 12 year old Tamir Rice.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Action is faster than reaction.

Are you seriously arguing that shooting someone in the back of the head is justified because of what they might do? Do you really how effed up that is?

The guy was trying to take the cop's taser and it appears the shot was provoked by his getting it. At that range he very well might be able to use it on the cop before the cop can react.

If that officer was fast enough to realize that "Action is faster than reaction" and shoot to kill in the back of the head, he was fast enough to back off.

"Action is faster than reaction" literally justifies any pre-emptive strike. It is carte blance for killing by the police.

Sorry, your apologia is unconvincing.

It's why people get shot with their own guns--if you let your opponent into arms reach of you they very well might be able to take your gun.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

About 20 years or so ago, my inlaws, who lived in a very nice suburb of a major city were the victims of an armed in home invasion. One of the robbers forced my FIL to drive to withdraw money from a bank and the other held my MIL captive, a knife at her throat. Long story but my father in law was able to alert the police who set up SWAT teams, who in turn, rescued my MIL. Both of the robbers were taken into custody. No shots were fired. No one was hurt, despite both robbers being armed and holding two elderly people, one of whom was in a walker, captive for several hours. Thank heavens.

I'm writing this to point out that indeed, there are alternatives to shooting people in the back of the head during traffic stops. Or during the commission of an armed robbery or armed home invasion.

Most bad guys aren't interested in shooting it out with the police and surrender when they're looking down the barrel of an officer's gun even if they have their own weapon.

Sigh. Way to miss the point. The police managed to rescue someone held hostage WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT. I mean there were SWAT teams there! And no one was injured.

No, you miss the point. It's the very presence of that kind of firepower that is the reason it was resolved peacefully. The bad guys knew that resistance would only get them shot by a sniper, they gave up.

Fuck no that’s not the point. And exactly what racist shit is this that now that I’ve disclosed that the robbers are black you feel entitled to refer to them as boys? What the actual fuck.

They were outwitted by an 80 something year old man and his wife. Less intelligent t and more cowardly people would have compli d instead of finding a way to alert the police.

I referred to them as "bad guys". Nowhere did I say "boys".

Most hostage situations end peacefully because they know they won't survive going up against the SWAT team.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I do not have a problem with police shootings being investigated. I have a problem with people jumping to conclusions and automatically taking Lyoya's side just because he was black. Not only on here, but in the media too. Like the NPR article that went on and on how great Patrick Lyoya was and never bothered to mention his extensive criminal record. And not just the media, but politicians too. Like Congresswoman Brenda Lawrence (D-MI) who called Lyoya "an American of great distinction".

Whether or not she thinks that the shooting was justified or not, given everything we know about Lyoya, nobody can claim he was "an American of great distinction".

This. These days there seems to be an automatic assumption that if the bad guy didn't have a gun it's automatically wrongful. The reality is that in a hand-to-hand fight with an officer it's always armed conflict.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And when he got out of the car even though he knows the procedure well (since he was arrested so many times).
And when he decided to run.
And finally when he decided to fight and not surrender when the cop caught him.

I don't think these are three decisions, but three aspects of one decision. He decided he wasn't going to be taken in, that manifested in his three actions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Fuck no that’s not the point. And exactly what racist shit is this that now that I’ve disclosed that the robbers are black you feel entitled to refer to them as boys? What the actual fuck.

He did not say "boys". He said "guys". Is that non-PC now all of a sudden?

And note that "bad guys" doesn't really even specify gender. Russia is the "bad guys" in Ukraine, that says nothing about the sex of their troops.

 

[ZiprHead]

It was Derec who refered to Lyoya as "boy".

He a good boy.