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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Copernicus said:
Jayjay said:
Jayjay said:
Ukraine may not win the war, but they will win the Eurovison Song Contest for sure.
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Called it.
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And I posted their winning performance here. This song is about a mother, but it has taken on national significance in the war effort. Only one band member did not attend Eurovision for this, because he decided to join the military instead. The others had to get special permission to leave the country to do the performance, because men of military age are not allowed to leave.

iidb.org

What music are you listening to right now? (Warning: Lotsa videos)

iidb.org iidb.org
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They would've won even if their contestant was a pack of screaming ferrets.

Ukrainian entry for 2007 is unforgettable too.

 
Jayjay said:
...They would've won even if their contestant was a pack of screaming ferrets.

Ukrainian entry for 2007 is unforgettable too...
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Actually, the 2007 entry is pretty awful, and I'm sorry that Finland's goth rock group, Rasmus, didn't win with Jezebel, Jayjay. Their entry wasn't bad, but I still think that Ukraine's entry was much better. :p



BTW, my sentimental favorite was France's Breton group, because I have spent a lot of time on the Breton language. They came in 24 out of 25, and I don't think that they could have won even if Russia were invading Brittany. Kalusha did a really good job with the Ukrainian entry.
 
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Lavrov strikes again:



His point, of course, is that westerners are hypocrites because they don't care about conflicts in Africa or the Middle East. This kind of rhetoric will resonate with some people.

But it's bullshit. Instead of saying "look at the awful things USA/NATO/The West is doing, we would never do this", their message is "why can't we get away with the same stuff you guys are doing?"
 
Or we are numb to crisis in Africa and war in the Middle East so they don't make the news much and consequently don't crack the top five things to worry about.

Worldwide implications of the crisis/conflict also come into play.
That Russia is likely to devolve into a big fucking North Korea. That NATO is stronger than ever. That the EU is turning to permanently divest itself from Russian energy.
And some of the more hopeful among us lose sleep excited that Putin may blow his brains out, something akin to a human being will become president of Russia, and Russia may even look to do what Ukraine has done and rid itself of nukes.
 
It's heartening to hear Ruskie gangster lieutenants telling Finland and Sweden that they are making a "grave mistake" joining NATO. I give those Russian propagandists credit. They can shit their pants till it fills their shoes and still tell you they're all fine. Even the mob doesn't work like this. It's just so damn interesting watching the fear stricken do their master's bidding. Slaves have more honor.

If there was ever a Russian ship with a brave crew, that ship sailed and sank a long time ago. I kinda pity those poor groveling fucks.

And there are lots of articles about the Russian Hitler's health, even stories about coups underway. All good stuff.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
there are lots of articles about the Russian Hitler's health, even stories about coups underway. All good stuff.
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Yeah, I mentioned again to Mrs Elixir this morning, that one day soon we will wake up to a dead Pootey. She’s still skeptical. Doesn’t really know anything about it but she is uncannily intuitive.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Or we are numb to crisis in Africa and war in the Middle East so they don't make the news much and consequently don't crack the top five things to worry about.

Worldwide implications of the crisis/conflict also come into play.
That Russia is likely to devolve into a big fucking North Korea. That NATO is stronger than ever. That the EU is turning to permanently divest itself from Russian energy.
And some of the more hopeful among us lose sleep excited that Putin may blow his brains out, something akin to a human being will become president of Russia, and Russia may even look to do what Ukraine has done and rid itself of nukes.
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To put it crudely the mid east is a shit hole. Religious and ethnic factions and tribalism. Peole are intent on slaughtering each other incapable of compromise. Ethiopia. Sudan.

One ray of hope is the apparent normalization of relations between Arabs and Israel. I expect it mostly about the common enemy Iran. In terms of wetern liberal rights the regoin is dismal. Iraq fell apart without a dictator. Meddling in Syria created a disater.

Iran is rapid in their intent to detroy Israel and Saudi Arabia. Whatever criticisms there are Israel is he one bright spot in the region. They hae a democracy with rule of law and rights within Israel. It is not a theocracy.

Plaestinns shit on each other.
 
Well, the punishments to Russia are getting more severe. McDonalds is pulling out entirely! They are selling off all their stores, (which will not be able to use their name, logo, or menu anymore) The surprising thing is they have apparently been paying their employees even as they were closed. Good for them!

Flashback to 1990 when they first moved in:
 
It is even worse than that. Denny's promises to open 500 restaurants in Russia.
 
marc said:
Well, the punishments to Russia are getting more severe. McDonalds is pulling out entirely! They are selling off all their stores, (which will not be able to use their name, logo, or menu anymore) The surprising thing is they have apparently been paying their employees even as they were closed. Good for them!

Flashback to 1990 when they first moved in:
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I visited that building in 1997 while on a business trip for my employer, Boeing. Their headquarters was on the fifth floor and McDonald's was at ground level. A lot of Western companies had big plans to expand in Russia during the 1990s. Then Putin arrived and started looking for ways to reclaim what he saw as the glorious Soviet legacy. It will take Russia a long time to attract all of that foreign investment back, if it ever does come back.
 
One way to cripple Putin and his elite is to cut off the supply of Viagra.

Putin will just rename MacDonald's MacIvan's. Big Mac become a Big Vlad.

Putin said he woud just appropriate any foreign business that threatend to pull ot.

I'd say opening Denny's in Russia would be part of the sanctions.
 
bilby said:
marc said:
which will not be able to use their name, logo, or menu anymore
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Why? What's stopping them?

I can't imagine the Russian authorities rushing to clamp down on any violations of McD's intellectual property rights...
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True, the buyer could just ignore that part of the deal and put up knock off signs after they leave.

They are already producing Komi-Cola
crooksandliars.com

Russians Begin Production Of 'Komi-Cola' After Coca-Cola Leaves

Komi-Cola is produced in Syktyvkar brewery, in the province of Komi. Hence the name. The logo, on the other hand...
crooksandliars.com crooksandliars.com
 
steve_bank said:
To put it crudely the mid east is a shit hole. Religious and ethnic factions and tribalism. Peole are intent on slaughtering each other incapable of compromise. Ethiopia. Sudan.
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Exactly. We don't care about the mess in such places because there's no good answer. Any attempt to help just gets exploited by the other side because both sides are determined to get the whole pie for themselves. Intervention will change the flavor of the evil but that's all.

steve_bank said:
One ray of hope is the apparent normalization of relations between Arabs and Israel. I expect it mostly about the common enemy Iran. In terms of wetern liberal rights the regoin is dismal. Iraq fell apart without a dictator. Meddling in Syria created a disater.
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I don't have much hope there. The war in East Asia is simply too useful a bogeyman to them. So long as someone else will carry the torch they're fine with quietly getting along with Israel, but someone's got to keep fighting the war. Furthermore, the backers need to avoid too much coexistence, that would allow the standard of living of the Palestinians to rise too much and thus much harder to keep driving towards war.

steve_bank said:
Iran is rapid in their intent to detroy Israel and Saudi Arabia. Whatever criticisms there are Israel is he one bright spot in the region. They hae a democracy with rule of law and rights within Israel. It is not a theocracy.

Plaestinns shit on each other.
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Yeah. While Israel isn't exactly a good guy they're way, way above the mess around them. And it's the Palestinians that ensure the problem continues--every attempt to be moderate turns out bad for Israel, thus they have little motive to control their radical element. They're going to be blamed whether they are at fault or not, the political will doesn't exist to marginalize their nuts.
 
Komi-cola. does it go well with vodka?

Looks like Putin is getting his wish. Russian is returning to the good old days of a closed Soviet economy. They were never able to make a decent car or commercial jet. Or televisions. Or semiconductors. Or agriculture.

After te sanctions after Crimea it wa reported it was having an effect on Russian nutrition. A lack of European foodstuffs.

The Soviets never deloped agriculture that provided nutritional diversity.

We are watching in real time as a major country, Russia, is self destructing.

Georgia was getting corruption under control, developing rule of lsw. attacting foreign investment, and growing econonmically.

Putin did his best to crush it.

Ukraine kicks out Soviet puppets, works to reign in corruption, and grows economically.

Putin tries to crushed it. It is all coming down to Russian self destructing because of the vanity and insanity of one man.
 
Palestinian problem is that they have no proper institutions, no sovereign country, and no leaders worth a damn. The choice is between corrupt PLO and religious terrorists, both with their own agenda that has nothing to do with what's good for the Palestinian people. That of course is fine by Israel, who can use that as an excuse to ultimately push them out of West Bank entirely.

It's probably too late to save Palestinians, but if they were smart, they would look at Zelensky very closely and try to duplicate that.
 
Jayjay said:
Palestinian problem is that they have no proper institutions, no sovereign country, and no leaders worth a damn. The choice is between corrupt PLO and religious terrorists, both with their own agenda that has nothing to do with what's good for the Palestinian people. That of course is fine by Israel, who can use that as an excuse to ultimately push them out of West Bank entirely.

It's probably too late to save Palestinians, but if they were smart, they would look at Zelensky very closely and try to duplicate that.
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You have it backwards. They are unable to govern themselves.

There was a civil war between Fatah and Hamas among Palestinians having nothing to do with Israel. Free elections are not possible and depending on which side wins the other does not acquiesce. It is tribal.

Jordan at one point annexed the West Bank leading to a civil war between Palestinins and Lordan.

There is also Iranian funded terrorism.

I once lookd at all the aid that gas gone to the Palestinians. A lot of money from the USA, Europe, and Arabs. It all disappeared with no mterial result. Yasar Arafat who went around in military fatigues died a rich man never holding a job.

Even without Israel the region would be a mess.

Egypt closed its border with Gaza before Isreal closed its borders.

It is politically incorrect to criticize cultures. Culture does natter. Suadi Arabia is living an anachronistic achaic system hostile to wetern freedoms abd values. It is a modern oppressive version of a medieval monarchy. It sucks and you could not pay me to go there.

There I said it, Arab culture sucks. Up through the 80s-90s Saudi Arabia was beheading people.
 
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