Male patients asked if they are pregnant at NHS Trust

[Metaphor]

The requirement for ideological conformity is a recipe for disaster.

How is it ideological conformity? And if it is, what disaster is to come?

Your first question cannot be serious, surely?

The NHS is changing screening forms to cater to trans ideology, and you don't think that's conformity?

It's one thing for people to say "forms should be sex-neutral and it's good that they are moving towards that as a result of the influence of trans activists". It's another to say "this has nothing to do with trans ideology".

The previous form that this person was filling out did not ask him if he was pregnant. The only reason he is now being asked is conformity to gender ideology.

 

[ZiprHead]

The previous form that this person was filling out did not ask him if he was pregnant. The only reason he is now being asked is conformity to gender ideology.

Do you have any proof of that that didn't come from your nether regions?

It could just be conformity to using one simplified basic form for everybody. Asking direct questions gets direct answers. Making assumptions in a medical situation can only lead to a disaster sooner or later.

 

[Arctish]

Asking a potential blood donor if they're pregnant is a medical question. {snip}

Asking a male if he is pregnant is a stupid question. And turning away a potential blood donor is a silly thing to do. I understand you have a hard time understanding why people don't just go along with these diktats but that's a you problem.

You snipped out my question. Sexism aside, what is the problem with that questionnaire in the linked article?

The question has been answered multiple times. It's a dumb, woke question to ask a male if he is or has been pregnant. You can go off on a rant about efficiency etc but we know that's bullshit because the NHS state that the question is in there for "inclusiveness" and not because it's a medical question or because it's more efficient. And the result is that a donor was turned away because he wasn't going along with the silly games. I'll keep typing out the same response because that's the game you want to play and I have nothing else to do just now so it kills a wee bit of my spare time to do so. Ask the same question again and I will copy/paste the same reply. Eventually the mods will move to elsewhere and that will be that.

Thank you for clarifying.

Your objection isn't that people have to fill out forms, or that the forms have to be filled out completely. Your objection is that in this instance, the form contained a question that would only get a 'yes' answer from a person with a uterus. A man had to say 'no' even though in your opinion most people would have correctly guessed the answer was 'no' just by looking at him.

For males, the question is not applicable. Are you going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns?

Of course I won't because the question is about medical concerns. It's about a medical condition people who don't have a uterus can't have, but it is a concern for people who facilitate and collect blood donations.

The form asked potential donors if they would be working under elevated atmospheric pressure or at altitude in the next 12 hours. It then asked people what their job is. Those questions are not applicable to retired persons. Are you going to argue they shouldn't be on the form that was given to Mr. Sinclair since he looks like a retiree?

If not, why not?

 

[thebeave]

The previous form that this person was filling out did not ask him if he was pregnant. The only reason he is now being asked is conformity to gender ideology.

Do you have any proof of that that didn't come from your nether regions?

It could just be conformity to using one simplified basic form for everybody. Asking direct questions gets direct answers. Making assumptions in a medical situation can only lead to a disaster sooner or later.

Its been decades since I stepped foot in a hospital, much less filled out a medical form, but don't they have a separate form for men and women? It would make sense given all the physiological differences between men and women.

 

[Metaphor]

The previous form that this person was filling out did not ask him if he was pregnant. The only reason he is now being asked is conformity to gender ideology.

Do you have any proof of that that didn't come from your nether regions?

I need only look at the evidence. Men were not routinely asked if they were pregnant before trans ideology captured the NHS. Nurses were not told to use the term 'chestfeeding' rather than 'breastfeeding' before trans ideology captured the NHS.

It could just be conformity to using one simplified basic form for everybody. Asking direct questions gets direct answers. Making assumptions in a medical situation can only lead to a disaster sooner or later.

Oh yes: like all the disasters from the medical imaging change that people were certain happened but not a single disaster was evidenced.

 

[TSwizzle]

Of course I won't because the question is about medical concerns. It's about a medical condition people who don't have a uterus can't have, but it is a concern for people who facilitate and collect blood donations.

Not really though. The NHS’s Professor Marc Turner, director of SNBTS made the statement that it’s about woke bullshit and inclusiveness. Goes along with the “chest feeding” and “birthing person” claptrap.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not all the same posters of course. But it's obvious that EVERYONE KNOWS WHO THE WOMEN ARE. When it comes down to it, there's no confusion, there's no ambiguity. Everyone knows which of us are women and are capable of becoming pregnant.

Mistakes will happen.

My SIL has had women try to throw her out of the women's room more than once.

My wife has been asked for a pregnancy test when she was 70.

I've been distracted and worn my glasses into MRI zone 3. (3 is safe but they shouldn't have gone beyond 2. Glasses in 4 can do nasty things.

 

[Arctish]

Of course I won't because the question is about medical concerns. It's about a medical condition people who don't have a uterus can't have, but it is a concern for people who facilitate and collect blood donations.

Not really though. The NHS’s Professor Marc Turner, director of SNBTS made the statement that it’s about woke bullshit and inclusiveness. Goes along with the “chest feeding” and “birthing person” claptrap.

I'd be interested in reading what he said. Got a link?

Anyway, back to that blood donor form. The form asked potential donors if they would be working under elevated atmospheric pressure or at altitude in the next 12 hours. It then asked people what their job is. Those questions are not applicable to retired persons. Are you going to argue they shouldn't be on the form that was given to Mr. Sinclair since he looks like a retiree?

If not, why not?

I took a quick look at Scotland's retirement age. It's 65. Mr. Sinclair is 66, so he not only looks old enough, he actually is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For males, the question is not applicable. Are you going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns?

Medical forms ask a lot of things that aren't relevant in every case. So what? You fill it out unless for some reason you can't. (Hit one of those recently--they listed the various things they cared about but instead of a none-of-the-above the question was worded nothing-in-this-category. Oops--you have something in the category that's not on the list, there's no valid answer.)

Medical forms are focused on giving the doctor the relevant information and we don't always know what they're after. (Just hit that yesterday with the eye doctor--she was doing the usual 1 or 2, 3 or 4 bit and she considered it helpful that I told her that I couldn't call it because 5 was better on the left side and 6 was better on the right side. It never would have occurred to me that that was relevant information, I was just explaining why it was so hard to resolve that pair.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The previous form that this person was filling out did not ask him if he was pregnant. The only reason he is now being asked is conformity to gender ideology.

Do you have any proof of that that didn't come from your nether regions?

It could just be conformity to using one simplified basic form for everybody. Asking direct questions gets direct answers. Making assumptions in a medical situation can only lead to a disaster sooner or later.

As a programmer I see it as reducing the decision tree--which is a standard thing for reducing errors. The fewer possible paths through a routine the less likely a bug is lurking there.

 

[TSwizzle]

I'd be interested in reading what he said. Got a link?

It’s in the Daily Mail article I linked to earlier.

And you don’t have to retire at 65 in the UK. I think the government is raising the retirement age and did so recently for women who could retire at 62, something like that. But it’s not relevant to the discussion as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Arctish]

I'd be interested in reading what he said. Got a link?

It’s in the Daily Mail article I linked to earlier.

You mean this?

"We appreciate the support of each and every one of our donor community and thank Mr Sinclair for his commitment over a long number of years. Whilst pregnancy is only a relevant question to those whose biological sex or sex assigned at birth is female, sex assigned at birth is not always visually clear to staff. As a public body we take cognisance of changes in society around how such questions may be asked without discrimination and have a duty to promote inclusiveness – therefore all donors are now asked the same questions."

You asked me if I was going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns. I said of course I wouldn't because it is about medical concerns. You said Professor Turner said it was about woke bullshit and inclusiveness, but what he actually said confirms that the question is about medical concerns, that there is a need to recognize social change and not be discriminatory, therefore everyone is being asked the same questions about pregnancy.

And you don’t have to retire at 65 in the UK. I think the government is raising the retirement age and did so recently for women who could retire at 62, something like that. But it’s not relevant to the discussion as far as I’m concerned.

I brought it up to highlight the fact you aren't objecting to asking questions that don't apply to potential donors.

It's pretty clear your objection stems from the notion that that men are being insulted and demeaned when they are equated with, or not distinguished from, women. Mr. Sinclair appears to share that sentiment.

 

[TSwizzle]

You asked me if I was going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns. I said of course I wouldn't because it is about medical concerns.

Erm no. When Mr Sinclair declared himself male (on the form, verbally or already stored in HIS medical record), the question about pregnancy is not applicable. But the gender ideologue fascists would not accept it. Mr. Sinclair must fill out the form or the fuhrer will get mad at him, the nasty little bigot. The staff know he’s male, we all do. Rational people would have just rolled their eyes, muttered under their breath about an old curmudgeon, checked the box for him and ushered him through to donate blood just as he has for the past 29 years or whatever. But as you well know, devout religious folks cannot be reasonable so they turned him away. This is how we know it has fuck all to do with medical care and everything to do with making sure the plebs get on board with the new religion. Authoritarians love putting the plebs in their place. He probably voted for Brexit too.

 

[Arctish]

You asked me if I was going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns. I said of course I wouldn't because it is about medical concerns.

Erm no. When Mr Sinclair declared himself male (on the form, verbally or already stored in HIS medical record), the question about pregnancy is not applicable. But the gender ideologue fascists would not accept it. Mr. Sinclair must fill out the form or the fuhrer will get mad at him, the nasty little bigot. The staff know he’s male, we all do. Rational people would have just rolled their eyes, muttered under their breath about an old curmudgeon, checked the box for him and ushered him through to donate blood just as he has for the past 29 years or whatever. But as you well know, devout religious folks cannot be reasonable so they turned him away. This is how we know it has fuck all to do with medical care and everything to do with making sure the plebs get on board with the new religion. Authoritarians love putting the plebs in their place. He probably voted for Brexit too.

Are you actually suggesting the staff should have falsified his medical form so they could take his blood?

No. They should not have done that.

Or are you suggesting the staff should have composed a form just for him? They should not have done that, either.

 

[TSwizzle]

You asked me if I was going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns. I said of course I wouldn't because it is about medical concerns.

Erm no. When Mr Sinclair declared himself male (on the form, verbally or already stored in HIS medical record), the question about pregnancy is not applicable. But the gender ideologue fascists would not accept it. Mr. Sinclair must fill out the form or the fuhrer will get mad at him, the nasty little bigot. The staff know he’s male, we all do. Rational people would have just rolled their eyes, muttered under their breath about an old curmudgeon, checked the box for him and ushered him through to donate blood just as he has for the past 29 years or whatever. But as you well know, devout religious folks cannot be reasonable so they turned him away. This is how we know it has fuck all to do with medical care and everything to do with making sure the plebs get on board with the new religion. Authoritarians love putting the plebs in their place. He probably voted for Brexit too.

Are you actually suggesting the staff should have falsified his medical form so they could take his blood?

No. They should not have done that.

Or are you suggesting the staff should have composed a form just for him? They should not have done that, either.

Hilarious you are. Yes, the staff should have falsified Mr. Sinclair was not pregnant. Ooooh maybe Mr. Sinclair’s non existent fetus could have come to harm!!! You religious folks are bonkers but entertaining at times.

 

[Swammerdami]

Let's Go Brandon!

A quick Google search reveals

A quick glance at Mr Sinclair or the fact his medical record states he’s male reveals he can’t be pregnant and never has been pregnant. But the new religion dictates he must bow down in pious reverence or be turned away. He was turned away, amen.

He might as well have been forced to bow down facing the statue of Vladimir Lenin in Pyongyang four times a day, while flagellating his bare back with a barbed chain. The agenda of these religious nuts is really frightening. Does the NHS at least apply some salve to the barb wounds?

Maybe to even things out, we could put a checkbox on standard medical forms at the gynecologist that ask, "Do you have trouble getting an erection?"

I know the punchline to this one! The girl pulls down her panties and says "I don't get erections all by myself, but I have one of these and with it I can get all the erections I want!"

 

[Arctish]

You asked me if I was going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns. I said of course I wouldn't because it is about medical concerns.

Erm no. When Mr Sinclair declared himself male (on the form, verbally or already stored in HIS medical record), the question about pregnancy is not applicable. But the gender ideologue fascists would not accept it. Mr. Sinclair must fill out the form or the fuhrer will get mad at him, the nasty little bigot. The staff know he’s male, we all do. Rational people would have just rolled their eyes, muttered under their breath about an old curmudgeon, checked the box for him and ushered him through to donate blood just as he has for the past 29 years or whatever. But as you well know, devout religious folks cannot be reasonable so they turned him away. This is how we know it has fuck all to do with medical care and everything to do with making sure the plebs get on board with the new religion. Authoritarians love putting the plebs in their place. He probably voted for Brexit too.

Are you actually suggesting the staff should have falsified his medical form so they could take his blood?

No. They should not have done that.
b.
Or are you suggesting the staff should have composed a form just for him? They should not have done that, either.

Hilarious you are. Yes, the staff should have falsified Mr. Sinclair was not pregnant. Ooooh maybe Mr. Sinclair’s non existent fetus could have come to harm!!! You religious folks are bonkers but entertaining at times.

Hilarious you are not.

If Mr. Sinclair doesn't want to fill out the form, he doesn't have to. But they won't accept his donation unless and until he does.

Not the staff. Not his mum. Not his mates down at the pub. Mr. Sinclair has to do it.

So if he wants to donate blood he's going to have to get over the shock of being handed a standard form instead of a sex specific one made just for him.

 

[TSwizzle]

You asked me if I was going to acknowledge that the question is not about medical concerns. I said of course I wouldn't because it is about medical concerns.

Erm no. When Mr Sinclair declared himself male (on the form, verbally or already stored in HIS medical record), the question about pregnancy is not applicable. But the gender ideologue fascists would not accept it. Mr. Sinclair must fill out the form or the fuhrer will get mad at him, the nasty little bigot. The staff know he’s male, we all do. Rational people would have just rolled their eyes, muttered under their breath about an old curmudgeon, checked the box for him and ushered him through to donate blood just as he has for the past 29 years or whatever. But as you well know, devout religious folks cannot be reasonable so they turned him away. This is how we know it has fuck all to do with medical care and everything to do with making sure the plebs get on board with the new religion. Authoritarians love putting the plebs in their place. He probably voted for Brexit too.

Are you actually suggesting the staff should have falsified his medical form so they could take his blood?

No. They should not have done that.
b.
Or are you suggesting the staff should have composed a form just for him? They should not have done that, either.

Hilarious you are. Yes, the staff should have falsified Mr. Sinclair was not pregnant. Ooooh maybe Mr. Sinclair’s non existent fetus could have come to harm!!! You religious folks are bonkers but entertaining at times.

Hilarious you are not.

If Mr. Sinclair doesn't want to fill out the form, he doesn't have to. But they won't accept his donation unless and until he does.

Not the staff. Not his mum. Not his mates down at the pub. Mr. Sinclair has to do it.

So if he wants to donate blood he's going to have to get over the shock of being handed a standard form instead of a sex specific one made just for him.

Yes, I understand that making Mr. Sinclair check the box is very, very important to the apparatchik.

 

[Arctish]

So much drama.

 

[Swammerdami]

Let's Go Brandon!

.

. . . He probably voted for Brexit too.

.

.

Hilarious you are not. . . .

Yes, I understand that making Mr. Sinclair check the box is very, very important to the apparatchik.

This thread is so long that I've forgotten the punchline. Did Mr. Sinclair ever divulge his pregnancy status? Or was this secret so very, very, very important to him that he walked away in tears? Was Brexit to blame?

Please tell us that he was, after all, actually pregnant! I can't think of a more fitting closure to this epic saga of courage in the face of man's inhumanity.