Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Elixir]

The Police State is the objective, not improving democratic society.

How do you improve society by making it unsafe?

A question for RW pretenders to “law&order”, who turn a blind eye to the felonious behavior of their mango Mussolini and his gang of murderous thieves.
They, like you, would love to be in control of a Police State. Which would make THEM safe and place everyone else at high risk.
Are you one of THEM, Oleg?
I know you can’t answer questions, but it sure seems like it.

More so, you fit the mold of the people who replaced the federal agents I spent over a decade trying to protect. Brutish sadistic thugs replaced the mostly humanitarian inclined agents of CBP, ICE, FLETC and other DHS agencies as soon as Trump took office.

 

[Jarhyn]

As if the criminals doing mass shootings are the same criminals as home invaders, car jackers or a bunch of gang affiliated niggas shooting each other on the streets. They are not.

Right. They are not the same. So the approach to either would be different. For the latter, simply enforcing gun laws, i.e., denying bail and putting away gun offenders to serve their full sentences, would work wonders.

That is how we got rid of murder!

It's weird. When offenders are actually prosecuted and kept in prision they can't terrorize the public. Why would that be?

You seem to be misunderstanding the goal here. It is to prevent mass school shootings, not to better prosecute them. The only people who haven't been imprisoned for shooting up a school are those that died in the attack. So, this whole, ain't prosecutin' enough is really silly.

Also people go to jail for a long time for murder... yet, people still make with the murder.

You’re so bogged down in the details of the murder/arrest/imprisonment dynamic as a path to improving a democratic society, you’ve lost sight of the critical fact that “Oleg” isn’t interested in that.

The Police State is the objective, not improving democratic society.

Well, you can't fill a prison full of poor black slaves without a police state.

 

[Hermit]

You'll get a Presidential Medal of Honor for heading into the Chicago PD (or Baltimore or NYC) and provide and implement the plan that prevents gang shootings.

NYC - Guillani and Bloomberg era. You may not like it, but it was.

Was not. Stop-and-frisk had next to no effect on crime rates in New York.

statistics show that there is apparently no relationship between crime and stop-and-frisk: data collected shows that property crime and violent crime in New York both consistently fell over time, despite the fact that the number of stops both increased and decreased during the same time period. This lack of correlation may suggest that stop-and-frisks as a police tactic may be a waste of time and resources.

 

[atrib]

You'll get a Presidential Medal of Honor for heading into the Chicago PD (or Baltimore or NYC) and provide and implement the plan that prevents gang shootings.

NYC - Guillani and Bloomberg era. You may not like it, but it was.

Was not. Stop-and-frisk had next to no effect on crime rates in New York.

statistics show that there is apparently no relationship between crime and stop-and-frisk: data collected shows that property crime and violent crime in New York both consistently fell over time, despite the fact that the number of stops both increased and decreased during the same time period. This lack of correlation may suggest that stop-and-frisks as a police tactic may be a waste of time and resources.

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong, simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

 

[bilby]

The Police State is the objective, not improving democratic society.

How do you improve society by making it unsafe?

It's a thing called "freedom". You probably haven't really grasped what it means, particularly if you're an American (in US English, "Freedom" is the antonym of "Communism", which other English speakers call "political opinions I agree with" or "political opinions I disagree with", respectively).

In the rest of the English speaking world, "freedom" is the opposite of "law"; It's the condition of allowing individual people to decide for themselves how to behave, rather than having a set of mandated rules or laws that they must comply with.

Of course, lots of people like the idea that everything possible should be mandated by law. But most of us prefer at least some freedom.

Safety is nice to have, but it's not the only thing a society should strive for, if you want it's members to be happy.

It would maximise safety to lock everyone in a padded cell and never let them out. If you genuinely want that level of safety, your local psychiatric hospital can probably oblige you; But if you try to impose safety on others, you can expect them to fight you.

 

[Elixir]

The Police State is the objective, not improving democratic society.

How do you improve society by making it unsafe?

It's a thing called "freedom". You probably haven't really grasped what it means, particularly if you're an American (in US English, "Freedom" is the antonym of "Communism", which other English speakers call "political opinions I agree with" or "political opinions I disagree with", respectively).

In the rest of the English speaking world, "freedom" is the opposite of "law"; It's the condition of allowing individual people to decide for themselves how to behave, rather than having a set of mandated rules or laws that they must comply with.

Of course, lots of people like the idea that everything possible should be mandated by law. But most of us prefer at least some freedom.

Safety is nice to have, but it's not the only thing a society should strive for, if you want it's members to be happy.

It would maximise safety to lock everyone in a padded cell and never let them out. If you genuinely want that level of safety, your local psychiatric hospital can probably oblige you; But if you try to impose safety on others, you can expect them to fight you.

Well sure, there’s that. But seriously … if we made everything from jaywalking to stealing National secrets a Capital Crime, we could commute most sentences to lifetime servitude (NOT SLAVERY) and we can all live in luxury.
Democrats want to deprive you of that and place you in the way of harm by those same criminals who should be waxing your Lambo.

 

[atrib]

Democrats want to deprive you of that and place you in the way of harm by those same criminals who should be waxing your Lambo.

Waxing his 2-stage articulated bus with independent rear wheel steering, not his lambo. Way cooler than any Italian trash.

 

[bilby]

Democrats want to deprive you of that and place you in the way of harm by those same criminals who should be waxing your Lambo.

Waxing his 2-stage articulated bus with independent rear wheel steering, not his lambo. Way cooler than any Italian trash.

Our articulated buses are German; The ones with the rear wheel steering are Swedish rigid buses.

None of them are exactly sporty. I was going up the hill on Creek Road yesterday at 25kph, with the gas pedal flat on the floor. It's a 70 limit, so I wasn't popular with the following traffic.

There's a species of tropical fish in Panama that has an alimentary canal just 100mm in total length; Even so, it's not as gutless as a MAN A24 CNG articulated bus.

 

[Oleg]

A question for RW pretenders to “law&order”, who turn a blind eye to the felonious behavior of their mango Mussolini and his gang of murderous thieves.

Is there really no way to have a conversation without bringing this guy up? It’s like, you can’t live without him. Get help.

 

[Oleg]

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong, simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

What Reduced Crime in New York City

www.nber.org

The most prominent of his policy changes was the aggressive policing of lower-level crimes, a policy which has been dubbed the "broken windows" approach to law enforcement. In this view, small disorders lead to larger ones and perhaps even to crime. As Mr. Guiliani told the press in 1998, "Obviously murder and graffiti are two vastly different crimes. But they are part of the same continuum, and a climate that tolerates one is more likely to tolerate the other."

The police measure that most consistently reduces crime is the arrest rate of those involved in crime, the study finds. Felony arrest rates (except for motor vehicle thefts) rose 50 to 70 percent in the 1990s. When arrests of burglars increased 10 percent, the number of burglaries fell 2.7 to 3.2 percent. When the arrest rate of robbers rose 10 percent, the number of robberies fell 5.7 to 5.9 percent. In the case of murder, the decline was 3.9 to 4 percent; in the case of assault, 2 to 2.4 percent; and for motor vehicle theft, 5 to 5.1 percent.

The contribution of such deterrence measures (the "stick") offers more explanation for the decline in New York City crime than the improvement in the economy, the authors conclude. Between 1990 and 1999, homicide dropped 73 percent, burglary 66 percent, assault 40 percent, robbery 67 percent, and vehicle hoists 73 percent. The authors' model manages to explain between 33 and 86 percent of those declines.

 

[Derec]

Well sure, there’s that. But seriously … if we made everything from jaywalking to stealing National secrets a Capital Crime,

Typical Elixirian straw man.
Nobody is asking for that. But at the same time, crimes like shoplifting should be prosecuted. Even if the first offense should not result in jail time, there still need to be consequences such as community service and restitution. And of course, with a conviction you have an official record and can seek a more substantial punishment if they do it again.

The tendency by many fauxgressive DAs to not prosecute some crimes and downgrade others (like Manhattan DA wanted to downgrade most armed robberies to misdemeanor shoplifting) is the wrong approach.

 

[Derec]

It's a thing called "freedom".

You don't have freedom to steal other people's stuff (even if your excuse is "how he gonna get his money"). You do not have the right to burn buildings, or riot, or even block public thoroughfares even if you are really mad about something.

 

[Derec]

Was not. Stop-and-frisk had next to no effect on crime rates in New York.

Your big source for this claim is a student project for some class. A poorly formatted one at that.

 

[Derec]

Well, you can't fill a prison full of poor black slaves without a police state.

Calling convicted criminals "poor black slaves" is just cheap polemics.
As is calling law enforcement a "police state".

Do you think robbers, assaulters, even murderers should not be locked up as long as they are "poor" and "black"?

 

[Derec]

A question for RW pretenders to “law&order”, who turn a blind eye to the felonious behavior of their mango Mussolini and his gang of murderous thieves.

Please refrain from derailing every thread with your TDS.

 

[Derec]

Every single right wing Nazi at the Charlottesville murder scene, every 1/6 rioter, yup. Lockemup.

What about #BLM and other left wing rioters? Lockemup? Or give them a pass because you agree with their politics?
So you want everybody at a right wing protest locked up because somebody got killed. Several people got killed during #BLM protests and riots, mostly during 2020 insurrection but also in previous years, e.g. in 2016 in Charlotte. Should by the same principle everybody who was at the Charlotte #BLM protest in 2016 be locked up becuase somebody got killed? Or only the person(s) responsible for any crimes?
Murder Trial Of Rayquan Borum, Death Of Justin Carr Explained
Borum was later sentenced to 24 to 30 years in prison.

 

[Derec]

This trend was seen nationally, and there is no consensus as to exactly why it happened. And it gets exhausting having to say this over and over.

Yes, I have seen some interesting hypotheses, from removal of lead from the environment to aborted fetuses more likely to be future offenders.
That said, since there is a national trend, any discussion of city policies needs to filter out that signal. And compare different cities trying different policies at the same time. It would be interested to see a politically disinterested and methodologically rigorous study on that subject.

So, ultimately, your claim that it wouldn't be hard to prevent these gang deaths appears to be just bluster

I think everybody who think the problem is an easy one to solve is naïve. At the same time, it is pretty obvious that going easy on gang-affiliated crime - like practiced by the likes of Gascon - is certainly the wrong way. What message is sent by giving a light sentence to a gang murderer?
Gascón stops effort to prosecute juvenile gang murderer as adult; victim’s family outraged
It's basically an invitation to all gangs to use teenage muscle to commit their murders, because the sentence will be light.

 

[Oleg]

In the rest of the English speaking world, "freedom" is the opposite of "law"; It's the condition of allowing individual people to decide for themselves how to behave, rather than having a set of mandated rules or laws that they must comply with.

I’m unaware of any Anglo concept of freedom that lets a person assault, murder, rape, steal, or openly defecate.

 

[laughing dog]

This trend was seen nationally, and there is no consensus as to exactly why it happened. And it gets exhausting having to say this over and over.

Yes, I have seen some interesting hypotheses, from removal of lead from the environment to aborted fetuses more likely to be future offenders.
That said, since there is a national trend, any discussion of city policies needs to filter out that signal. And compare different cities trying different policies at the same time. It would be interested to see a politically disinterested and methodologically rigorous study on that subject.

So, ultimately, your claim that it wouldn't be hard to prevent these gang deaths appears to be just bluster

I think everybody who think the problem is an easy one to solve is naïve. At the same time, it is pretty obvious that going easy on gang-affiliated crime - like practiced by the likes of Gascon - is certainly the wrong way. What message is sent by giving a light sentence to a gang murderer?
Gascón stops effort to prosecute juvenile gang murderer as adult; victim’s family outraged
It's basically an invitation to all gangs to use teenage muscle to commit their murders, because the sentence will be light.

Using your logic, whatever the cutoff age for prosecution as an adult is set, gangs will use children under the cutoff age. So is the solution no cutoff age - prosecute all children who commit heinous crimes as adults?

 

[Derec]

Ah, a few years ago this would not have happened. The knowledge by the offenders that there's little cops can do and the prosecutor is gonna let'm walk anyone has eroded public safety.

Officer injured after crowd attacks CPD squad cars in Portage Park

A rowdy group attacked Chicago police officers on the city's Northwest Side Sunday morning.

www.cbsnews.com

There is a lot of talk of "police state" lately on this thread. It is wholly unjustified of course. In parts of the country (like Chicago in this clip) it is more like 'anti-police state' given the attitude by DAs and many other elected officials.