Politics Where are you really from?

[Metaphor]

But you DO know her true motives, right? And of course you think they were somehow benign. Because of course you think that.

I think Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural origins. That seems evident to me because Hussey said 'I knew we'd get there' when she heard it, and the exchange ended.

And why would she want to know that about this woman? Why would it matter in the context of that event? She wasn't going around asking everybody for that information.

I've already answered this in the thread, in fact in the OP. I'm tired of answering the same questions.

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

Hussey did not remark on Fulani's clothing, although a picture of her made you think about her clothing as some kind of attitude statement. Hussey had asked Nafir Abzal where he was from but did not press him after he said "Manchester". Perhaps he was a bit more intimidating to her than Fulani was.

Perhaps.

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Cannot answer the question? I've been answering it from the moment I posted the OP.

Of course it was about Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage. That's what Hussey wanted to know.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

In fact, in the 1950s when Fulani's parents moved to the UK, 'other Caribbean' did not even register above an m-dash on the Census.

That's why most people perceive Hussey's behavior as racist, but you want to deny it.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

 

[pood]

But you DO know her true motives, right? And of course you think they were somehow benign. Because of course you think that.

I think Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural origins. That seems evident to me because Hussey said 'I knew we'd get there' when she heard it, and the exchange ended.

And why would she want to know that about this woman? Why would it matter in the context of that event? She wasn't going around asking everybody for that information.

I've already answered this in the thread, in fact in the OP. I'm tired of answering the same questions.

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

Hussey did not remark on Fulani's clothing, although a picture of her made you think about her clothing as some kind of attitude statement. Hussey had asked Nafir Abzal where he was from but did not press him after he said "Manchester". Perhaps he was a bit more intimidating to her than Fulani was.

Perhaps.

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Cannot answer the question? I've been answering it from the moment I posted the OP.

Of course it was about Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage. That's what Hussey wanted to know.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

In fact, in the 1950s when Fulani's parents moved to the UK, 'other Caribbean' did not even register above an m-dash on the Census.

That's why most people perceive Hussey's behavior as racist, but you want to deny it.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

All of this ignores the perspective of a person of color. I invite you to read the article I linked earlier, written by a black British citizen on this subject, if you have not read it already.

 

[Metaphor]

But you DO know her true motives, right? And of course you think they were somehow benign. Because of course you think that.

I think Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural origins. That seems evident to me because Hussey said 'I knew we'd get there' when she heard it, and the exchange ended.

And why would she want to know that about this woman? Why would it matter in the context of that event? She wasn't going around asking everybody for that information.

I've already answered this in the thread, in fact in the OP. I'm tired of answering the same questions.

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

Hussey did not remark on Fulani's clothing, although a picture of her made you think about her clothing as some kind of attitude statement. Hussey had asked Nafir Abzal where he was from but did not press him after he said "Manchester". Perhaps he was a bit more intimidating to her than Fulani was.

Perhaps.

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Cannot answer the question? I've been answering it from the moment I posted the OP.

Of course it was about Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage. That's what Hussey wanted to know.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

In fact, in the 1950s when Fulani's parents moved to the UK, 'other Caribbean' did not even register above an m-dash on the Census.

That's why most people perceive Hussey's behavior as racist, but you want to deny it.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

All of this ignores the perspective of a person of color. I invite you to read the article I linked earlier, written by a black British citizen on this subject, if you have not read it already.

I am sorry you have no interest in responding to my points. I think I made my case civilly (and, unfortunately, had to repeat my case several times).

 

[pood]

Put it this way: Do you really think there might not be a valid perspectivial difference between you fielding questions about your ethnic background, and a person of color fielding similar questions in the context of this exchange?

 

[pood]

I am sorry you have no interest in responding to my points. I think I made my case civilly (and, unfortunately, had to repeat my case several times).

I’m sorry you have no interest in responding to mine.

 

[Metaphor]

Put it this way: Do you really think there might not be a valid perspectivial difference between you fielding questions about your ethnic background, and a person of color fielding similar questions in the context of this exchange?

I've already answered this question. There are differences between any two experiences, but there are also similarities. The thing that usually marks me as different from the prevailing Anglo-Celtic Australian ethnicity and culture is my name rather than the colour of my skin. But for all I know, it was Fulani's decidedly non Anglo-Celtic name that triggered Hussey's rude and oblivious line of questioning.

Would you like to see a prevailing standard where people must never enquire about the ethnic and cultural heritage of others?

And, was Hussey's line of questioning racist no matter what?

 

[pood]

Put it this way: Do you really think there might not be a valid perspectivial difference between you fielding questions about your ethnic background, and a person of color fielding similar questions in the context of this exchange?

I've already answered this question. There are differences between any two experiences, but there are also similarities. The thing that usually marks me as different from the prevailing Anglo-Celtic Australian ethnicity and culture is my name rather than the colour of my skin. But for all I know, it was Fulani's decidedly non Anglo-Celtic name that triggered Hussey's rude and oblivious line of questioning.

Would you like to see a prevailing standard where people must never enquire about the ethnic and cultural heritage of others?

And, was Hussey's line of questioning racist no matter what?

Well, I’m glad you agree her line of questioning was rude and oblivious.

I don’t know what a “prevailing standard” would be, but yes, in general I think it’s rather rude to inquire about such things. But it all depends on context. I have a long ethnic Polish last name and that frequently draws inquiries, but usually in causal conversation among people I have may have just met. And I think the question is posed out of sheer curiosity. No one has ever asked me, in a job interview say, what my ethnic heritage is. If they did, I wouldn’t necessarily be offended, but I would be puzzled by such a question, having no relevance to the interview.

If a representative of royality in Britain is pestering a British citizen about her ethnic heritage, a citizen who is a person of color, this is a very different matter. You and I are white (I presume you are.) We do not know the experience of people of color in situations like this. We do not know it directly, but we can certainly infer, given the long history of Amglo-Saxon racism toward people of color, that such questioning can make a person of color feel extremely uncomfortable, and belittled — make such a person feeled Othered, because they can perceive an implied subtext that if they are a person of color, they are not really British. This is what the black British citizen talks about in the article that I linked.

I don’t say her line of questioning is racist no matter what. But it is certainly plausible to believe that it was racist, given the actual historical facts of relations between the Anglo-Saxon world and people of color. At the very least the questions were incredibly insensitive and clueless.

 

[Metaphor]

Put it this way: Do you really think there might not be a valid perspectivial difference between you fielding questions about your ethnic background, and a person of color fielding similar questions in the context of this exchange?

I've already answered this question. There are differences between any two experiences, but there are also similarities. The thing that usually marks me as different from the prevailing Anglo-Celtic Australian ethnicity and culture is my name rather than the colour of my skin. But for all I know, it was Fulani's decidedly non Anglo-Celtic name that triggered Hussey's rude and oblivious line of questioning.

Would you like to see a prevailing standard where people must never enquire about the ethnic and cultural heritage of others?

And, was Hussey's line of questioning racist no matter what?

Well, I’m glad you agree her line of questioning was rude and oblivious.

I don’t know what a “prevailing standard” would be, but yes, in general I think it’s rather rude to inquire about such things. But it all depends on context. I have a long ethnic Polish last name and that frequently draws inquiries, but usually in causal conversation among people I have may have just met. And I think the question is posed out of sheer curiosity.

Well, yes. Your name marks you as different, and people are curious.

No one has ever asked me, in a job interview say, what my ethnic heritage is. If they did, I wouldn’t necessarily be offended, but I would be puzzled by such a question, having no relevance to the interview.

Nobody has asked me my ethnicity in a job interview, but they have commented on what the origin of my name is, which is at the very least an indirect question about my cultural heritage.

If a representative of royality in Britain is pestering a British citizen about her ethnic heritage, a citizen who is a person of color, this is a very different matter. You and I are white (I presume you are.) We do not know the experience of people of color in situations like this. We do not know it directly, but we can certainly infer, given the long history of Amglo-Saxon racism toward people of color, that such questioning can make a person of color feel extremely uncomfortable, and belittled — make such a person feeled Othered, because they can perceive an implied subtext that if they are a person of color, they are not really British. This is what the black British citizen talks about in the article that I linked.

I don’t say her line of questioning is racist no matter what. But it is certainly plausible to believe that it was racist, given the actual historical facts of relations between the Anglo-Saxon world and people of color. At the very least the questions were incredibly insensitive and clueless.

 

[pood]

I wanted to add something else. About a hundred years ago in the U.S. anyway, someone having an ethnic Polish last name would have been in much the same situation as a person of color in the context we are discussing. Such people, then, were considered dumb Polacks and not real Americans, even if born here as children of Polish immigrants. The exact same thing happened to people of Irish, German, Italian and other descent. The fourth and fifth generation descendants of such people seem to forget this, because most white ethnic Americans are not discriminated against and the old “Irish need not apply” signs hung in businesses that were seeking employees have long vanished. But there was a time in this country when only WASPs were considered “real Americans,” as depicted so vividly in the movie Gangs of New York.

 

[TomC]

If you do neither, I will report your posts on this matter.

I apologize.
It was @Elixir, responding to your post, who said:
"

Here are more inconvenient facts.

The thing that's bugging me here is Tom's strident assertion that he's "not saying it's wrong" that blacks receive more so-called entitlement money than whites. He's not "saying" it, he is just strongly directly and unmistakeably implying it."

Apparently, it doesn't show up in search function because the thread is locked. Can't quote it either.
Tom

 

[pood]

If you do neither, I will report your posts on this matter.

I apologize.
It was @Elixir, responding to your post, who said:
"

Here are more inconvenient facts.

The thing that's bugging me here is Tom's strident assertion that he's "not saying it's wrong" that blacks receive more so-called entitlement money than whites. He's not "saying" it, he is just strongly directly and unmistakeably implying it."

Apparently, it doesn't show up in search function because the thread is locked. Can't quote it either.
Tom

Thank you for your apology.

 

[Toni]

But you DO know her true motives, right? And of course you think they were somehow benign. Because of course you think that.

I think Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural origins. That seems evident to me because Hussey said 'I knew we'd get there' when she heard it, and the exchange ended.

Please see your post #238.

I’d be interested in knowing why you think your opinion of Lady Hussey’s motivations is more valid, or indeed, appreciably different than mine, particularly with regards your interpretation of Hussey’s words, quoted above.

 

[Metaphor]

But you DO know her true motives, right? And of course you think they were somehow benign. Because of course you think that.

I think Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural origins. That seems evident to me because Hussey said 'I knew we'd get there' when she heard it, and the exchange ended.

Please see your post #238.

What about that post? I gave you what I thought Hussey's motivation was and the reason I think that.

I’d be interested in knowing why you think your opinion of Lady Hussey’s motivations is more valid, or indeed, appreciably different than mine, particularly with regards your interpretation of Hussey’s words, quoted above.

I gave my reasons, so I will repeat them:

I think Hussey wanted to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural origins. That seems evident to me because Hussey said 'I knew we'd get there' when she heard it, and the exchange ended.

Your characterisation, that Hussey believed Fulani could not 'really' be British, does not make sense to me. Do you mean Hussey correctly believed that Fulani's recent ethnic and cultural heritage were not British?

 

[Copernicus]

...

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

How is it "making a point of it" at a charity meeting on the subject of women of African and Caribbean ancestry???? There was nothing at all unusual or unexpected about her clothing in a meeting of that sort. And you keep bringing up the name change as if it had anything to do with the controversy, which it did not.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

SO WHAT??? Hussey didn't know that, so that couldn't have provoked her to say what she did to Fulani. Nor should Fulani's clothing have seemed provocative. Why do you keep returning to these points as if they were relevant to Hussey's behavior?

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Absolutely untrue. When informed of Fulani's nationality, Hussey then started in on her family background and where "her people" came from. This is in the context of a country that voted to leave the EU because of its liberal policies on refugees and immigration. Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was getting at.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

Oh, stop with the special pleading. This is not about some white guy in Australia with an eastern European family name. Do Australians really care about immigrants like you invading their country? Is there some popular movement to stop immigrants from European countries from immigrating into Australia?

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

Again SO WHAT???? Everyone at the event was well aware of that and did not need to have it discovered by one of the officials from Buckingham Palace. That history and the anti-immigrant sentiment among so many Brits is precisely what made the remarks racist. You are as tone deaf as she was on this issue.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

That's exactly what I have been doing.

 

[Metaphor]

...

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

How is it "making a point of it" at a charity meeting on the subject of women of African and Caribbean ancestry????

...what? The meeting was about domestic violence, not women of African and Caribbean ancestry.

There was nothing at all unusual or unexpected about her clothing in a meeting of that sort. And you keep bringing up the name change as if it had anything to do with the controversy, which it did not.

I've explained why I brought that up and I'm not going to do it again.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

SO WHAT??? Hussey didn't know that, so that couldn't have provoked her to say what she did to Fulani. Nor should Fulani's clothing have seemed provocative. Why do you keep returning to these points as if they were relevant to Hussey's behavior?

I've explained why I brought that up and I'm not going to do it again.

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Absolutely untrue. When informed of Fulani's nationality, Hussey then started in on her family background and where "her people" came from. This is in the context of a country that voted to leave the EU because of its liberal policies on refugees and immigration. Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was getting at.

Hussey accepted Fulani's nationality without question, because Hussey's question was not about Fulani's nationality.

Yes, Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was enquiring about, which I pointed out in the OP. Fulani was deliberately not getting the point.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

Oh, stop with the special pleading. This is not about some white guy in Australia with an eastern European family name. Do Australians really care about immigrants like you invading their country? Is there some popular movement to stop immigrants from European countries from immigrating into Australia?

It's clear to me you don't know what special pleading is, what my childhood was like, or indeed almost anything about the immigrant experience. If your intention is to say 'fuck off whitey, you've got no clue', just say it.

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

Again SO WHAT???? Everyone at the event was well aware of that and did not need to have it discovered by one of the officials from Buckingham Palace. That history and the anti-immigrant sentiment among so many Brits is precisely what made the remarks racist. You are as tone deaf as she was on this issue.

Sure Jan.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

That's exactly what I have been doing.

Indeed.

 

[Toni]

...

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

How is it "making a point of it" at a charity meeting on the subject of women of African and Caribbean ancestry????

...what? The meeting was about domestic violence, not women of African and Caribbean ancestry.

There was nothing at all unusual or unexpected about her clothing in a meeting of that sort. And you keep bringing up the name change as if it had anything to do with the controversy, which it did not.

I've explained why I brought that up and I'm not going to do it again.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

SO WHAT??? Hussey didn't know that, so that couldn't have provoked her to say what she did to Fulani. Nor should Fulani's clothing have seemed provocative. Why do you keep returning to these points as if they were relevant to Hussey's behavior?

I've explained why I brought that up and I'm not going to do it again.

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Absolutely untrue. When informed of Fulani's nationality, Hussey then started in on her family background and where "her people" came from. This is in the context of a country that voted to leave the EU because of its liberal policies on refugees and immigration. Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was getting at.

Hussey accepted Fulani's nationality without question, because Hussey's question was not about Fulani's nationality.

Yes, Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was enquiring about, which I pointed out in the OP. Fulani was deliberately not getting the point.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

Oh, stop with the special pleading. This is not about some white guy in Australia with an eastern European family name. Do Australians really care about immigrants like you invading their country? Is there some popular movement to stop immigrants from European countries from immigrating into Australia?

It's clear to me you don't know what special pleading is, what my childhood was like, or indeed almost anything about the immigrant experience. If your intention is to say 'fuck off whitey, you've got no clue', just say it.

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

Again SO WHAT???? Everyone at the event was well aware of that and did not need to have it discovered by one of the officials from Buckingham Palace. That history and the anti-immigrant sentiment among so many Brits is precisely what made the remarks racist. You are as tone deaf as she was on this issue.

Sure Jan.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

That's exactly what I have been doing.

Indeed.

No, Hussey was the one not getting the point. Why do you believe that Fulani owed Hussey the response she was looking for?

 

[Metaphor]

...

Really? I went back to the OP, and you said nothing about why her ethnic and cultural origin would matter in the context of that event.

Really? She was there as a representative of a charity that helped women of African and Caribbean ancestry with issues around domestic violence. She changed her Anglo-sounding name to an African-sounding one. She wore a style of attire that is markedly not British in origin.

Now, whether it 'mattered' or not depends on your perspective, but Fulani was making a point of it, which is probably why Hussey asked her about it.

How is it "making a point of it" at a charity meeting on the subject of women of African and Caribbean ancestry????

...what? The meeting was about domestic violence, not women of African and Caribbean ancestry.

There was nothing at all unusual or unexpected about her clothing in a meeting of that sort. And you keep bringing up the name change as if it had anything to do with the controversy, which it did not.

I've explained why I brought that up and I'm not going to do it again.

I believe that Pood asked you roughly the same question, and you avoided answering it with the same excuse. Again, Hussey could not possibly have known anything about her name until she reached over to push Fulani's hair out of the way of her name tag. Hussey did not ask Fulani about why she chose to change her name, because she did not know that Fulani had changed her name.

I did not make the claim that Hussey knew Fulani changed her name. I made the claim Fulani changed her name to deliberately emphasise her cultural and ethnic heritage.

SO WHAT??? Hussey didn't know that, so that couldn't have provoked her to say what she did to Fulani. Nor should Fulani's clothing have seemed provocative. Why do you keep returning to these points as if they were relevant to Hussey's behavior?

I've explained why I brought that up and I'm not going to do it again.

It seems to me that you cannot answer the question without admitting that this was about Fulani's race and immigration status.

It was certainly not about Fulani's nationality, which Hussey accepted without question.

Absolutely untrue. When informed of Fulani's nationality, Hussey then started in on her family background and where "her people" came from. This is in the context of a country that voted to leave the EU because of its liberal policies on refugees and immigration. Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was getting at.

Hussey accepted Fulani's nationality without question, because Hussey's question was not about Fulani's nationality.

Yes, Fulani knew exactly what Hussey was enquiring about, which I pointed out in the OP. Fulani was deliberately not getting the point.

If you are saying 'Hussey would not have asked the same question of anybody with white skin, and that's what makes it racist', then I disagree with both the first part and the second part. First, as I related in my OP, I have been in Fulani's position hundreds of times, only it is my name that generally triggers the enquiry. For all I know, it was Fulani's name that triggered Hussey's enquiry (the exchange started after Hussey found out Fulani's name).

Oh, stop with the special pleading. This is not about some white guy in Australia with an eastern European family name. Do Australians really care about immigrants like you invading their country? Is there some popular movement to stop immigrants from European countries from immigrating into Australia?

It's clear to me you don't know what special pleading is, what my childhood was like, or indeed almost anything about the immigrant experience. If your intention is to say 'fuck off whitey, you've got no clue', just say it.

But even if it were Fulani's skin colour alone that caused Hussey to want to know Fulani's ethnic and cultural heritage...so what? That isn't racist. It's an acknowledgment that up until the mid-twentieth century, Britain's ethnic makeup was a lot more Anglo-Celtic than it is now, and so anyone who isn't Anglo-Celtic is likely to have immediate ethnic and cultural ties that are not British.

Again SO WHAT???? Everyone at the event was well aware of that and did not need to have it discovered by one of the officials from Buckingham Palace. That history and the anti-immigrant sentiment among so many Brits is precisely what made the remarks racist. You are as tone deaf as she was on this issue.

Sure Jan.

We evidently have different understandings of the word 'racist'. I have given you an alternative perspective on the incident. You can do with that as you please.

That's exactly what I have been doing.

Indeed.

No, Hussey was the one not getting the point. Why do you believe that Fulani owed Hussey the response she was looking for?

I did not say that Fulani owed Hussey anything.

Once again, in front of God and everybody, I have to repeat: I did not say it and don't believe it.

 

[laughing dog]

This is what this thread has taught me. When old white women who represent an official institution(and who are probably too old to remember who they have talked to or what they have said) persistently interrogate people of color (more than one person) about her ethnic and national background in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable, it is wrong for those people of color to think it is racism and to complain because white people are on the end of exactly the same experience. Furthermore, the people involved cannot be trusted to reveal their motives for apologizing or resigning because it is not unreasonable for outsiders from different part of the world to know more about what happened than the participants. Finally, because no one in a discussion who relies on news report can know all the relevant details, only some people's conclusions are valid.

 

[Toni]

No, Hussey was the one not getting the point. Why do you believe that Fulani owed Hussey the response she was looking for?

I did not say that Fulani owed Hussey anything.

Once again, in front of God and everybody, I have to repeat: I did not say it and don't believe it.

Then why do you insist that Fulani was 'deliberately not getting the point?' It is apparent to everyone that she fully got the point, that she was not playing dumb, as you repeatedly have insisted, but was very courteously and professionally making her own point.

 

[laughing dog]

No, Hussey was the one not getting the point. Why do you believe that Fulani owed Hussey the response she was looking for?

I did not say that Fulani owed Hussey anything.

Once again, in front of God and everybody, I have to repeat: I did not say it and don't believe it.

Then why do you insist that Fulani was 'deliberately not getting the point?' It is apparent to everyone that she fully got the point, that she was not playing dumb, as you repeatedly have insisted, but was very courteously and professionally making her own point.

You still don't understand. Because white gay man' in a different hemisphere feels he has had the very same experiences, he must know that what Ms. Fulani had to have known. Once you understand that is the perceptions of white people that matter, this all makes sense,