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Germany coup plot: Police raid far-right terror suspects behind bid 'to overthrow government'

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Thousands of police in Germany carried out a series of raids early Wednesday morning against suspected far-right extremists who allegedly sought to overthrow the state in an armed coup.

The suspects allegedly wanted to install an elderly member of a German noble family as the country's new leader and had been in contact with Russian officials about the scheme.

The Russian embassy in Berlin denied having any links to terror groups or illegal organisations in Germany.

Federal prosecutors said some 3,000 officers conducted searches at 130 sites in 11 of Germany's 16 states against adherents of the so-called Reich Citizens movement. ...

...

They are alleged to have believed in a “conglomerate of conspiracy theories consisting of narratives from the so-called Reich Citizens as well as QAnon ideology,” according to a statement by prosecutors. They added that members of the group also believe Germany is ruled by a so-called ‘deep state;’ similar baseless claims about the United States were made by former President Donald Trump.

...

Article here.
 
You have to wonder how much Trump and Jan 6 has influnced the world.

Netanyahu is back in power and it looks like the justice system will be corrupted to prevent his prosecution.

In Peru the president facing impeachment tried to seize power.

While serious in nature, the Gerrmn conspiracy seems a little goofy. The head would have been an old aristocrat who calls humself prince. The traditional pre WWII way Europeans formed governments. Find somebody with an articatic blood line and back him with the militray.
 
You have to wonder how much Trump and Jan 6 has influnced the world.

Netanyahu is back in power and it looks like the justice system will be corrupted to prevent his prosecution.

In Peru the president facing impeachment tried to seize power.

While serious in nature, the Gerrmn conspiracy seems a little goofy. The head would have been an old aristocrat who calls humself prince. The traditional pre WWII way Europeans formed governments. Find somebody with an articatic blood line and back him with the militray.

I maintain that I think the Internet and social media is to "blame". Before Internet the opinions of the working class and rurals were represented by privilged middle-class urban journalists LARPing their demographic. While these jouranlists did care about their reader base they weren't more than human, and laws were skewed for this groups benefit, rather than their readers. Now with the Internet the rural poor can speak with their own voices and it turns out the the political establishment haven't learned yet how to deal with this. It turns out that these are a lot more conservative than the journalists that used to represent them. The poor rurals keep demanding stuff, opining and screaming on social media and the politicians keep ignoring them. I believe this is the reason of the post naughties political shifts. I think it's an expression of frustration. If we feel our politicians aren't listening to us then society will swerve toward revolution. Ie, towards leaders who promise major and radical change. This leads to political instability. I don't think that it's that the rurals love authoritarians. I think it's more that we like authoritarian figures in times of instability. And that's what this latest wave of conservative authoritarianism is about.

But the rise of the Internet isn't just causing waves in democratic countries. It's way more a problem in dictatorships. Arab spring for example. Or all the latest problems in China and Iran. I think the entire world has become more democratic.

For us in the West, another dramatic shift is the great wealth rise of the developing world. They're no longer a group of dysfuncational basket cases Western leftists with Mesiah complexes can have bleeding hearts for. The truth is that the developing world no longer need our charity. They're fine on thier own now. Leftists have to find another role to occupy and conservatives will of course see the rise of wealth in the world as mostly a threat. As they tend to do. This is bound to have implications on western politics. In one way or another. As I stated above, any major political shift leads to instability and insecurity which makes us gravitate towards authoritarians. Not to mention that the countries in the developing world are no longer dependent on the goodwill of the west. Their new found wealth allows them to make deals with anyone and anything they feel is a better trading partner, like Russia or China.

 
The net is certainly part of it.

Before that there were books, newspapers, and mailing lists. Not as efficient but ideas however extreme did prppaate.

Radio and early recordings. KKK and American nationalism spread quite well. There was actually a market for early disk recordings of racist propaganda and music.

The silent movie Birth Of A Nation was popular.

The dissent leading to the American Revolution spread.

Trump did have an observable effect. Putin, Ntanyahu, China, and other authorterian leaders began using the term 'fake news'.
 
You have to wonder how much Trump and Jan 6 has influnced the world.

Netanyahu is back in power and it looks like the justice system will be corrupted to prevent his prosecution.

In Peru the president facing impeachment tried to seize power.

While serious in nature, the Gerrmn conspiracy seems a little goofy. The head would have been an old aristocrat who calls humself prince. The traditional pre WWII way Europeans formed governments. Find somebody with an articatic blood line and back him with the militray.
The New Right/Reich has been putting forth “leaders” who totally resemble the crazy guy on the street corner who thinks he’s Napoleon. It’s the Trump mold.
 
The net is certainly part of it.

Before that there were books, newspapers, and mailing lists. Not as efficient but ideas however extreme did prppaate.

Radio and early recordings. KKK and American nationalism spread quite well. There was actually a market for early disk recordings of racist propaganda and music.

The silent movie Birth Of A Nation was popular.

The dissent leading to the American Revolution spread.

Trump did have an observable effect. Putin, Ntanyahu, China, and other authorterian leaders began using the term 'fake news'.

A factor a lot of people miss when it comes to the rise of scientific racism in the late 19'th century, is the fact that the entire world was ruled by "white" countries. Deducing from that that white people are superior is a pretty simple conclusion. A lot of people back then were NOT racists. I think that is harder to explain.
 
The net is certainly part of it.

Before that there were books, newspapers, and mailing lists. Not as efficient but ideas however extreme did prppaate.

Radio and early recordings. KKK and American nationalism spread quite well. There was actually a market for early disk recordings of racist propaganda and music.

The silent movie Birth Of A Nation was popular.

The dissent leading to the American Revolution spread.

Trump did have an observable effect. Putin, Ntanyahu, China, and other authorterian leaders began using the term 'fake news'.

A factor a lot of people miss when it comes to the rise of scientific racism in the late 19'th century, is the fact that the entire world was ruled by "white" countries. Deducing from that that white people are superior is a pretty simple conclusion. A lot of people back then were NOT racists. I think that is harder to explain.
I agree, the majority of people back then where overwhelmingly not racist. They just did racist stuff every now and then.
 
The net is certainly part of it.

Before that there were books, newspapers, and mailing lists. Not as efficient but ideas however extreme did prppaate.

Radio and early recordings. KKK and American nationalism spread quite well. There was actually a market for early disk recordings of racist propaganda and music.

The silent movie Birth Of A Nation was popular.

The dissent leading to the American Revolution spread.

Trump did have an observable effect. Putin, Ntanyahu, China, and other authorterian leaders began using the term 'fake news'.

A factor a lot of people miss when it comes to the rise of scientific racism in the late 19'th century, is the fact that the entire world was ruled by "white" countries. Deducing from that that white people are superior is a pretty simple conclusion. A lot of people back then were NOT racists. I think that is harder to explain.
What? They were absurdly racist. They were purely racist. Many might not meant it in spite (this statement is excluding anti-Semitism), but they truly thought they were the best race.
 
The poor rurals keep demanding stuff, opining and screaming on social media and the politicians keep ignoring them.
Indeed. But that's largely because the "stuff" is such things as capital punishment for minor offences, the rounding up and deportation of anyone who hasn't got three or four generations of locally born ancestors, and making homosexuality punishable by castration.

Because poor rural people are the salt of the Earth - hard, square, and bad for your health.
 
The poor rurals keep demanding stuff, opining and screaming on social media and the politicians keep ignoring them.
Indeed. But that's largely because the "stuff" is such things as capital punishment for minor offences, the rounding up and deportation of anyone who hasn't got three or four generations of locally born ancestors, and making homosexuality punishable by castration.

Because poor rural people are the salt of the Earth - hard, square, and bad for your health.

That's why in Merica, the political establishment pays homage to them by calling them the Heartland.
 
The net is certainly part of it.

Before that there were books, newspapers, and mailing lists. Not as efficient but ideas however extreme did prppaate.

Radio and early recordings. KKK and American nationalism spread quite well. There was actually a market for early disk recordings of racist propaganda and music.

The silent movie Birth Of A Nation was popular.

The dissent leading to the American Revolution spread.

Trump did have an observable effect. Putin, Ntanyahu, China, and other authorterian leaders began using the term 'fake news'.

A factor a lot of people miss when it comes to the rise of scientific racism in the late 19'th century, is the fact that the entire world was ruled by "white" countries. Deducing from that that white people are superior is a pretty simple conclusion. A lot of people back then were NOT racists. I think that is harder to explain.
It's not that hard to explain. There's no point in hating people you are unlikely ever to interact with in any way.

Racism starts when 'they' interact with 'our' lives enough to be perceived as threatening. It ends when the interaction is so routine and normal that 'they' are just more of 'us'.

The rural poor aren't just rural - they're also inhabitants of small towns, and even entire suburbs of much more cosmopolitan cities.

They're only barely a minority in most developed nations, despite the massive urbanisation of populations since the industrial revolution.

These are the parochial populations like the folks in Donbas who accidentally shot down a transcontinental airliner. They had no clue that the airspace over Ukraine had become a major air corridor; They probably had a vague idea that air travel existed, but no reason at all to imagine that it was happening above their towns and villages. They didn't worry about the risk, because they simply didn't have the experience to grasp its existence.

Poor rural (and small town) people are mostly utterly clueless (and passionately proud of their ignorance), and that makes modernity terrifying and incomprehensible to them. Their knee jerk, instinctive response is to set it on fire.
 
The poor rurals keep demanding stuff, opining and screaming on social media and the politicians keep ignoring them.
Indeed. But that's largely because the "stuff" is such things as capital punishment for minor offences, the rounding up and deportation of anyone who hasn't got three or four generations of locally born ancestors, and making homosexuality punishable by castration.

Because poor rural people are the salt of the Earth - hard, square, and bad for your health.

That's why in Merica, the political establishment pays homage to them by calling them the Heartland.
Whaddabout Appalachia? Poorer and and more rural than most of flyover Country.
Ain't nobody paying no homage to them, afaics.
Is it the inbreeding? Does that not go on in "middle America"?
 
I think Mississippi is considered the poorest area.

The coal economy is gone.

Detroit is part of the 'rust belt'. Abandoned factories and neighborhoods.
 
Thousands of police in Germany carried out a series of raids early Wednesday morning against suspected far-right extremists who allegedly sought to overthrow the state in an armed coup.

The suspects allegedly wanted to install an elderly member of a German noble family as the country's new leader and had been in contact with Russian officials about the scheme.

The Russian embassy in Berlin denied having any links to terror groups or illegal organisations in Germany.

Federal prosecutors said some 3,000 officers conducted searches at 130 sites in 11 of Germany's 16 states against adherents of the so-called Reich Citizens movement. ...

...

They are alleged to have believed in a “conglomerate of conspiracy theories consisting of narratives from the so-called Reich Citizens as well as QAnon ideology,” according to a statement by prosecutors. They added that members of the group also believe Germany is ruled by a so-called ‘deep state;’ similar baseless claims about the United States were made by former President Donald Trump.

...

Article here.
"No links to 'terror groups' or 'illegal groups'," is weasel wording.

It's a crafted statement that does not actually say "we have no links to that specific group," as Russians could under that language later claim "because the group wasn't illegal (according to the laws overthrown by democracy)" or because "we did not see them as a terror group".

To the wary, it reads like a confession.
 
It is peculiar how CT'ers gravitate to authoritarians.

And love suporting Putin in his quest to rid the world of Nazis by expanding Russian lebensraum
Look behind any movement that seeks to undermine the west and you'll generally find some Russian fingers. I'm not saying that they're Russian puppets, but rather that Russia will aid those who seek to harm the west. And that includes the Republican party.
 
These are the parochial populations like the folks in Donbas who accidentally shot down a transcontinental airliner. They had no clue that the airspace over Ukraine had become a major air corridor; They probably had a vague idea that air travel existed, but no reason at all to imagine that it was happening above their towns and villages. They didn't worry about the risk, because they simply didn't have the experience to grasp its existence.
Disagree. Anyone capable of shooting down that airliner is no small town hick. Those systems take a lot of training to operate, the sort of idiot you picture wouldn't have hit their target.

Rather, it was probably a Russian army idiot who was itching to shoot down a Ukrainian plane and didn't worry too much about target identification. The same sort of thing that lead Iran to shoot down that civilian plane--itching to shoot down an American raid (not that any such raid actually happened, we just popped one of their people outside Iran) and not making sure of what they were shooting at.
 
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