Colorado club shooter is non-binary, CNN repeatedly misgenders them.

[Jarhyn]

Thanks for sharing your complex issues, but what you have described sounds more like a transgender person who feels stuck in the body of the sex that doesn't reflect their brain

Not really "trans" unless you mean "trans-neuter".

It's not a confliction of body parts. The body parts I want and want to feel are not on the menu of "things easily evoked from human biochemistry".

It's the gender fluidity, based primarily on what I've read on sites specifically for such folks that I am having trouble understanding

I can't exactly speak to fluidity. As I have said, I think for the vast majority of "fluid" folks, it's an excuse to feel less constrained and to explore until they find where they really belong.

I'm admittedly not fluid. I'm also quite non-binary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that because one's body parts don't match their brains, such as in the case of a transgender person, that it's better or acceptable to simply identify as nonbinary?

No. It's not about body parts matching brains for me. I am not transgender in the typical way. I'm (chemically) a eunuch.

I'm not a woman.

My body naturally produces testosterone in levels higher than I wanted, so I take a medication that makes testosterone do nothing to my body.

I am saying that for those who are exploring, it's better to let them explore without making strict and strong declaration on what they are until they find it, test their feelings on the matter sufficiently, and make some informed decisions on the matter.

Sometimes, like me, they won't find themselves clear of "nonbinary" and sometimes they will.

There is not as of yet, that I know of, any science to help us understand being gender fluid or not having any gender, etc.

I can't give you a pile of research. I can only give you one observation by someone who has approached their own life in a scientific way.

Fluidity is in my estimation a crutch for most, much like most budding gays have a "bisexual" phase. I will grant that some people truly are bisexual. I have quite a number of friends. Even as a eunuch I'm still sexual, but it's something I approach creatively every time, and something I have to decide I want to do.

Nobody should feel inferior if they identify as male or female but don't fill the traditional stereotypical roles associated with that gender.

This is absolutely correct. But it does not change the fact that I don't identify as male or female. I spent the last two years to get permission to be a eunuch.

Obviously, there are ways I could make that happen more readily, but not without being considered as mentally damaged or unfit. It will take me months or even years of taking these pills before I will both have no testicles and also not be seen as a self-harmer.

I have dreams of having an opportunity to be the "house-spouse". This does not make me a woman.

I have dreams of having a career making things that disrupt the very foundations of society. This does not make me a man.

I am, exactly, a eunuch.

I'm pretty sure that's non-binary.

So, if a person is very assertive but also very nurturing, does that mean that person could be nonbinary?

Maybe, but probably not. For most, it's the halfway-out-of-the-egg-house. YMMV.

More I suspect it's not likely for neurotypical folks to ever be nonbinary. Vanishingly so, in fact.

For some I suppose it's "I dislike you assigning me a comorbidity just because I have some traits" or "you will never truly come to understand me by trying to put me in such a box."

What exactly do we even mean when we speak of gender these days? Believe me. I've searched with an open mind but have yet to find any rational answers

Exactly what I meant when I said before: that gender is the model of the ideal self, some image that you hope to reify.

One of the first things most people do is assign it traits THEY consider masculine or feminine, and then they seek to emulate those traits.

Sometimes there's more than one such image and people vacillate between which image they feel like at the moment.

Some people lack an image of such entirely.

When the ideal is the immediate seeming of yourself it can be hard to distinguish the idea that there is an image at all... You might just mistake that pretty of you as a mirror rather than a goal object!

That is in many ways what it means to be cis.

Sometimes the image is built and the builder sees a common thread between what drives their selection of aspects of this "perfect self" and they find that exactly what they like about all these things is their androgyny!

Why do people form such images? I'm not sure there is anything rational about it other than the fact that it helps us grow to accomplish new things when we struggle towards such dreams.

Thanks for helping us understand your situation. I had no idea that you considered yourself a eunuch. I apologize if you feel I was "putting you in a box". That was never my intention. I hope you find a good solution to your personal issues. I may not ever understand how you feel, but I am not judging you.

I had the idea that you identified as female based on some comments you had made on some older threads. Sometimes I do find your posts a bit confusing, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect you for who you are. I was done with this thread but wanted to make sure that you knew I had no ill feelings towards you. From my perspective, you are a rare but interesting individual. Sorry it's caused you what appears to be emotional distress. At least that's the impression I've gotten from some of your comments. None of my comments are meant to be insulting, so please don't take them that way. Sometimes it's hard to express ourselves clearly on a discussion board. It happens to all of us. I appreciate your willingness to try and help us understand your situation.

Because I wasn't about to call myself a eunuch until I was a eunuch, until I was sure. That's really what I mean by "gender: wizard". It's a joke in some respects because, well, my ideal self image literally has no bearing of the binary or any of that.

You caused me no emotional distress. In fact, the most distress I felt was in trying to make clear a path where I could help you finally understand, because I felt like YOU were experiencing distress in trying to understand something so alien to the normal human experience.

I will accept that it can be confusing sometimes reading my posts because often I write sentences that are very complex. I also am very reserved over certain things: I say many things that are true but I do not always say the whole truth.

Part of the point was to make an implication that would leverage a false conclusion towards "binary thinkers" that could reveal to them just how binary they are being in thought, and to shine light on a conclusion that operating in that way runs roughshod over the edge cases.

It is in some ways designed to make you ask yourself a trick question just so you realize that the question is tricky:
"You DON'T really know 'what I am'!"

I also admittedly like being able to tell the likes of Metaphor "I'm not a man" and let them make asses of themselves in claiming I am from "what I'm not". They don't know what I am, and "what I am not" does not imply "what I am".

I seek in many ways to be confusing to the binary thinkers on purpose.

Well, I guess I can't do as much of that now since the cat's out of the bag, at least to the current audience.

Even so, I don't feel like you were "putting me in a box". You've been careful not to, in fact, which I kind of appreciate (even if you have a hard time understanding sometimes, though it's my fault for engineering that situation). I was also trying to write for a general audience about a general thing in a way designed first and foremost to force people to think deeply about how they perceive things.

I have a number of other nonbinary friends as well, not halfway-in-the-egg but honestly NB folks, too: folks whose self image is a known admixture of traits, some classically considered feminine and some considered masculine but selected "a-la-carte" style.

If you have any more questions or curiosity, I'm always open to answer. Just @ me, and I'll probably respond (or ask in private, it's all good).

 

[TomC]

Well, I guess I can't do as much of that now since the cat's out of the bag, at least to the current audience.

I can't help but think that you don't know what cat is out of the bag, at least not to me.

I also admittedly like being able to tell the likes of Metaphor "I'm not a man

I seek in many ways to be confusing to the binary thinkers on purpose.

I find you a person who enjoys getting attention by being difficult. You like goading people. You like being confusing. It makes you feel special and important.

That cat is definitely out of the bag, to this part of your current audience. I've known lots of people like you.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Well, I guess I can't do as much of that now since the cat's out of the bag, at least to the current audience.

I can't help but think that you don't know what cat is out of the bag, at least not to me.

I also admittedly like being able to tell the likes of Metaphor "I'm not a man

I seek in many ways to be confusing to the binary thinkers on purpose.

I find you a person who enjoys getting attention by being difficult. You like goading people. You like being confusing. It makes you feel special and important.

That cat is definitely out of the bag, to this part of your current audience. I've known lots of people like you.
Tom

Everyone sees you, Tom. We see who you are.

 

[TomC]

Everyone sees you, Tom. We see who you are.

Bless Your Heart.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Lol

 

[Oleg]

It used to be that if a boy acted feminine, or a girl masculine, that was okay.

You can't seriously believe that.

As a geeky kid, with some vaguely effeminate tendencies, I can tell you flat out. That statement is bullshit.
Tom

No, no. Maybe not for your generation, but starting a few decades ago it was considered okay. It was the counter to the fundamentalist conversion therapy. Do you think that because you were vaguely effeminate as a child you were born in the wrong body? That you needed hormone injections and surgery to try to appear feminine? Aren’t you glad you’re not an effeminate male child today in the midst of the gender cult?

 

[ZiprHead]

Where is this gender cult located? Do they have offices? Franchise programs? Is there a meeting scheduled somewhere so I can attend and see it for myself?

Or is it really the right-wing and QAnon assholes filling your heads with fear, which conservatives thrive on. Then they send bomb threats to hospitals because some asshole said they do trans surgeries on children (They don't, BTW). They have armed neo-nazis surround and protest drag shows. They shoot out an entire community's power supply to stop a drag show.

The real cult is on your side, and they are dangerous to everyone.

 

[Oleg]

Where is this gender cult located? Do they have offices? Franchise programs? Is there a meeting scheduled somewhere so I can attend and see it for myself?

Or is it really the right-wing and QAnon assholes filling your heads with fear, which conservatives thrive on. Then they send bomb threats to hospitals because some asshole said they do trans surgeries on children (They don't, BTW). They have armed neo-nazis surround and protest drag shows. They shoot out an entire community's power supply to stop a drag show.

The real cult is on your side, and they are dangerous to everyone.

 

[Oleg]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

You've fallen for the trans-panic deception.

 

[ZiprHead]

Where is this gender cult located? Do they have offices? Franchise programs? Is there a meeting scheduled somewhere so I can attend and see it for myself?

Or is it really the right-wing and QAnon assholes filling your heads with fear, which conservatives thrive on. Then they send bomb threats to hospitals because some asshole said they do trans surgeries on children (They don't, BTW). They have armed neo-nazis surround and protest drag shows. They shoot out an entire community's power supply to stop a drag show.

The real cult is on your side, and they are dangerous to everyone.

Does that really match up with this statement?

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

 

[Oleg]

A lot of absolutes and strawmen being thrown around here.

No strawmen at all. Young children are preyed upon by the gender cult if they have gender non-conforming behavior. Metaphor is right to hate the gender cult.

You've fallen for the trans-panic deception.

Um, okay.

 

[Arctish]

Libs of Tik Tok at the top and an ad for Project Veritas at the bottom.

Hmm, do I accept what it says blindly or do I do my own research?

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Metaphor]

Libs of Tik Tok at the top and an ad for Project Veritas at the bottom.

Hmm, do I accept what is says blindly or do I do my own research?

Decisions, decisions.

Of course, do your own research.

Unfortunately you won't be able to research the Dean's posts on Twitter, because he deleted his account after this video came out.

 

[Toni]

I think it is rather cavalier to proclaim a binary when there are such messy shades of grey.

Sex is binary, Jarhyn. There are two, and only two, gamete types in humans. There is no third reproductive strategy.

People said the same bullshit you did, but about homosexuals, claiming that it was not possible for someone to be born gay, too,

It is impossible. Babies don't have a sexual orientation.

No you should not. The context in the title gives singular "shooter", so anyone whom the public education system has not utterly failed should be fine.

No. The pronoun has introduced ambiguities. For example, some news stories are ambiguous about whether 'they' refers to the shooter alone, or the shooter and his legal team.

My oldest son was an inveterate flirt with women in the grocery check out line before he was 6 months old. The general scientific belief is that sexuality is established at some point in early childhood. Certainly people change or discover or understand their own sexuality throughout their lives. Some people discover that, although they always considered themselves attracted only to one sex that at some point in their lives, that changes, usually when they fall in love with someone they never expected to love. Some people are asexual, or ACE. Some people feel an interest in sex early on; some have a very delayed interest in sex. Aside from genetic and other biological influences, trauma can also influence development, delaying recognition of sexual feelings or sometimes cause precocious interest in sex.
One thing most people figure out is that their own particular feelings and experiences are not universal.

Sexuality and gender are expressed in many, many languages across the world, across countries and across cultures and across time. Language is fluid and changes as does all form of expression. I do not understand why you are so fixated on how the current version of English expresses gender and sex. Some languages assign gender to inanimate objects; some assign no gender at all.

 

[Arctish]

Libs of Tik Tok at the top and an ad for Project Veritas at the bottom.

Hmm, do I accept what is says blindly or do I do my own research?

Decisions, decisions.

Of course, do your own research.

Unfortunately you won't be able to research the Dean's posts on Twitter, because he deleted his account after this video came out.

I can research the claims that appear in the image of the Tik Tok post, which I did.

Turns out, the Libs of Tik Tok were reacting to the assertions of a senior fellow at a conservative think tank, and then painting a lurid picture of teachers handing out dildos, lube, and butt plugs to their students (free stuff, yay!). I haven't read the actual training documents that were sent out so I really can't say what's in them. Frankly, I have my doubts a Children's hospital recommended butt plugs but I can believe it wanted students to know the importance of lube if they're going to use one.

Meanwhile, at the hospital: Activists Rejoice As Lurie Children's Hospital Vows To Stop Genital Surgeries On Intersex Children: 'We're Not Used To Victories'

Lurie Children’s Hospital could become the first institution to stop cosmetic surgeries on children who are born intersex — having genital traits that don’t fit binary ideas of male or female — amid mounting pressure from its employees and activists.

The hospital announced in a public apology Tuesday it was moving to end the surgeries on intersex children’s genitals unless the procedures are medically necessary or until patients are old enough to give meaningful consent to the procedures.

“We recognize the painful history and complex emotions associated with intersex surgery and how, for many years, the medical field has failed these children,” hospital officials said in a statement.

Sounds like Lurie Children's Hospital is on the right track there.

 

[Metaphor]

Sexuality and gender are expressed in many, many languages across the world, across countries and across cultures and across time. Language is fluid and changes as does all form of expression.

Language is indeed fluid but it is also a democracy. Or, at least, it used to be, before pronoun demanders and their enablers. It used to be, before Australia decided it can use the force of the State to make me utter things I do not believe.

I do not understand why you are so fixated on how the current version of English expresses gender and sex. Some languages assign gender to inanimate objects; some assign no gender at all.

English does not 'express' gender at all. The idea that the sexed pronouns - he, she - and the unsexed they - refer to the 'gender' or 'gender identity' of the target is nonsense. You have been warned, Toni. When you decide the target of a pronoun gets to determine their pronoun, you have no escape clause when neopronouns are demaded. Have a gander on Tik Tok for the variety of neopronouns you will be expected to learn.

Oh, and when you see 'she/they', you better mix it up, you better not just use 'she', because the target of the pronouns will be evaluating your she/they ratio, and it better be right.

 

[Metaphor]

Libs of Tik Tok at the top and an ad for Project Veritas at the bottom.

Hmm, do I accept what is says blindly or do I do my own research?

Decisions, decisions.

Of course, do your own research.

Unfortunately you won't be able to research the Dean's posts on Twitter, because he deleted his account after this video came out.

I can research the claims that appear in the image of the Tik Tok post, which I did.

Turns out, the Libs of Tik Tok were reacting to the assertions of a senior fellow at a conservative think tank, and then painting a lurid picture of teachers handing out dildos, lube, and butt plugs to their students (free stuff, yay!). I haven't read the actual training documents that were sent out so I really can't say what's in them. Frankly, I have my doubts a Children's hospital recommended butt plugs but I can believe it wanted students to know the importance of lube if they're going to use one.

Meanwhile, at the hospital: Activists Rejoice As Lurie Children's Hospital Vows To Stop Genital Surgeries On Intersex Children: 'We're Not Used To Victories'

Lurie Children’s Hospital could become the first institution to stop cosmetic surgeries on children who are born intersex — having genital traits that don’t fit binary ideas of male or female — amid mounting pressure from its employees and activists.

The hospital announced in a public apology Tuesday it was moving to end the surgeries on intersex children’s genitals unless the procedures are medically necessary or until patients are old enough to give meaningful consent to the procedures.

“We recognize the painful history and complex emotions associated with intersex surgery and how, for many years, the medical field has failed these children,” hospital officials said in a statement.

Sounds like Lurie Children's Hospital is on the right track there.

Yes. Imagine just not mutilating the genitals of children. What a concept.

Unless the children claim a gender identity different from their birth sex. Now, that's a good reason to mutilate the bodies of children.

 

[Arctish]

Yes. Imagine just not mutilating the genitals of children. What a concept.

Unless the children claim a gender identity different from their birth sex. Now, that's a good reason to mutilate the bodies of children.

Are you suggesting the Lurie Children's Hospital in Chicago mutilates children?

What is you evidence? I hope it isn't a Tik Tok video from a deleted account.

 

[Metaphor]

Yes. Imagine just not mutilating the genitals of children. What a concept.

Unless the children claim a gender identity different from their birth sex. Now, that's a good reason to mutilate the bodies of children.

Are you suggesting the Lurie Children's Hospital in Chicago mutilates children?

Since up until that announcement they were performing medically unnecessary procedures on the genitals of intersex children, yes.

Also, it is my understanding that most hospitals in America circumcise the penises of baby boys, with about 80% of men in America being circumcised. So yes, hospitals in America have been the site of the mutilation of over a hundred million boys.