• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Intellectual Property Law

If anyone is clinging to an idea out of a sense of fashion, it's you, Bomb.

Originally, copyrights only lasted for 7 years. Their original intent was to allow the creator to make money. Now copyrights last for a ridiculous amount of time past the life of the original copyright holder, not to make more money for the original creator, but to make more money for whatever corporate entity bought the rights from the creator (or made the creator sign away his or her rights for a pittance).

I know it's fashionable to put the needs of the aristocracy above the needs of society, but the system we have no longer encourages artists to create, it only encourages big corporations to hire more lawyers to sue people.

But the US sueing laws is a different problem that also should be solved.
Dont mix them up.

.. exactly what the establishment (in this case, the Chamber of Commerce) wants you to believe. "Tort Reform" is a solution in search of a problem. The notion that 'frivolous lawsuits' are a problem for our economy has been lavishly marketed by our 'friends', the Chamber of Commerce, whose sole purpose of existing is to expand the rights of corporations by limiting the rights of consumers.

IP is a general term used to categorize the nuanced different types of intangible, but very real, property. It is true that the laws are different for different types of property. Not mentioned above (but also very important) is DNA. Is DNA a copyrightable thing? Today, it is.

there are many issues, but I agree that lumping different laws together by some abstract common attribute is not helpful.
 
One must first ask, "what is property"? People are no longer considered (potential) property. Therefore, analogies relating to ANY kind of property and slavery is outdated and irrelevant in a conversation occurring this century.

Bomb, if not to have Tort Law protect the work others do, for the purpose of making a living, than what should protect such things? Are you proposing that non-physical creations have no ownership rights? This might be a good time to remind you of this forum's EULA / ToS. Apparently, you don't 'believe' in them either, since they protect a thing that has no mass.

How about your social security number. It has no physical manifestation... I cannot "steal' it. So, therefore, I can use it however I see fit.. get whatever loans I want with it.. right? If you personally fail to protect it then others have the RIGHT to it... That seems to me to follow from your argument.
 
If you buy my book, you do not purchase the right to make a copy and resell it.
I agree. That's why I referred to it as an unauthorized copy. With the legitimate purchase of your book was no granted right by the author to neither copy nor sell your book.

If it is a peculiar kind of theft, the only thing which distinguishes it from other theft is my inability to protect my property. If you do not consider the content of my book to be mine, then it's a greater challenge.
What strikes my attention is the scope of the term "theft". To illustrate, consider the common mistake of conflating a lie with dishonesty. Even if every instance of a lie was an instance of dishonesty, not every instance of dishonesty would therefore be an instance of a lie. The issue before me isn't whether the selling a copy of your book is wrong ... I'd happily concede that point. What have I taken that is yours? The content of your book is yours. The content of the copy I made with my money is mine. I see a distinction, and the distinction I see is the difference between the original book and a copy of the original book. Yes, there would be no content of a copy if not for the content of the original, but I didn't steal the content of the original (recall, I purchased the book), nor did I steal the content of the copy (I used my quarters). Call it wrong, and I'll agree, but call it theft and I'll merely understand.
 
I agree. That's why I referred to it as an unauthorized copy. With the legitimate purchase of your book was no granted right by the author to neither copy nor sell your book.

If it is a peculiar kind of theft, the only thing which distinguishes it from other theft is my inability to protect my property. If you do not consider the content of my book to be mine, then it's a greater challenge.
What strikes my attention is the scope of the term "theft". To illustrate, consider the common mistake of conflating a lie with dishonesty. Even if every instance of a lie was an instance of dishonesty, not every instance of dishonesty would therefore be an instance of a lie. The issue before me isn't whether the selling a copy of your book is wrong ... I'd happily concede that point. What have I taken that is yours? The content of your book is yours. The content of the copy I made with my money is mine. I see a distinction, and the distinction I see is the difference between the original book and a copy of the original book. Yes, there would be no content of a copy if not for the content of the original, but I didn't steal the content of the original (recall, I purchased the book), nor did I steal the content of the copy (I used my quarters). Call it wrong, and I'll agree, but call it theft and I'll merely understand.

The difference between agreeing and understanding appears to depend upon ownership of the ox.
 
But the US sueing laws is a different problem that also should be solved.
Dont mix them up.

.. exactly what the establishment (in this case, the Chamber of Commerce) wants you to believe. "Tort Reform" is a solution in search of a problem. The notion that 'frivolous lawsuits' are a problem for our economy has been lavishly marketed by our 'friends', the Chamber of Commerce, whose sole purpose of existing is to expand the rights of corporations by limiting the rights of consumers.

IP is a general term used to categorize the nuanced different types of intangible, but very real, property. It is true that the laws are different for different types of property. Not mentioned above (but also very important) is DNA. Is DNA a copyrightable thing? Today, it is.

there are many issues, but I agree that lumping different laws together by some abstract common attribute is not helpful.

It's a very real problem--but the "answers" are totally off base. They're based on limiting damages rather than addressing the true problems.

1) The biggest problem is joint and several liability. The result is when you have a very obvious but deadbeat (or effectively deadbeat given the claims they'll be facing) wrongdoer you jump through all sorts of hoops to get somebody with deep pockets included and stick the whole bill on them. (For an extreme example consider a local case. A baby with brain damage. Now, that's probably just bad luck but there's no way to prove it wasn't a doctor's error during delivery. Trial #1--90% of the blame is assigned to the woman. I forget the allocation of the rest of it but it was moot as the law here says if you're more than 50% responsible you can't collect, period. Trial #2, filed in the name of the baby, still 90% her fault but they managed to get 5% of the fault assigned to a doctor who examined her once several hours before the baby was born. He's the only party involved with a penny--and the whole $6 million judgment landed on him.)

2) Sympathy verdicts. All too often when you have a rich defendant and an obviously suffering plaintiff and the facts of the case are inconclusive the plaintiff will get a lot of money. I would change the standard of evidence to require some actual evidence of wrongdoing--cases lacking evidence either way automatically go to the defendant.

3) The use of baseless lawsuits as a threat. No hint of wrongdoing but one can often make bills go away by hinting at suing the doc.


As for the effects of it--half the cost of a general aviation airplane is the liability cost, even though it's very rarely the manufacturer that's at fault.
 
I've posted this point maybe a dozen times throughout the years on this board and I know Bronzeage has seen it before but I'll do it again.

Copyright infringement is not theft. Certainly not legally in the US. Here is the case that established that fact Dowling v. United States.

Justice Blackmore gave compelling reasoning why its not theft.

Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple "goods, wares, [or] merchandise," interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
The key word that defines theft is deprive. If you haven't deprived someone of something you can't have stolen from them. Just like you haven't stolen someone's house if you simply trespassed there while the owner was away.
 
I've posted this point maybe a dozen times throughout the years on this board and I know Bronzeage has seen it before but I'll do it again.

Copyright infringement is not theft. Certainly not legally in the US. Here is the case that established that fact Dowling v. United States.

Justice Blackmore gave compelling reasoning why its not theft.

Since the statutorily defined property rights of a copyright holder have a character distinct from the possessory interest of the owner of simple "goods, wares, [or] merchandise," interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The infringer of a copyright does not assume physical control over the copyright nor wholly deprive its owner of its use. Infringement implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
The key word that defines theft is deprive. If you haven't deprived someone of something you can't have stolen from them. Just like you haven't stolen someone's house if you simply trespassed there while the owner was away.

No. You dont get it. The text just says that the copyright was not stolen. There is still something dowlong was deprived of, but just not the copyright.
 
I've posted this point maybe a dozen times throughout the years on this board and I know Bronzeage has seen it before but I'll do it again.

Copyright infringement is not theft. Certainly not legally in the US. Here is the case that established that fact Dowling v. United States.

Justice Blackmore gave compelling reasoning why its not theft.

The key word that defines theft is deprive. If you haven't deprived someone of something you can't have stolen from them. Just like you haven't stolen someone's house if you simply trespassed there while the owner was away.

No. You dont get it. The text just says that the copyright was not stolen. There is still something dowlong was deprived of, but just not the copyright.

Does the deprivation constitute thievery?
 
But not nearly as old as the concept of copyright or the concept of patent.


You're putting the cart before the horse. First show that there is such a thing as intellectual property. You might as well claim humans can be property, label abolitionists and runaway slaves "thieves", and offer the circumstance that your neighbors will help you recover your slave as evidence that the people who don't accept that you own him are wrong.

"Intellectual property" is a French term. There's no basis for it in Anglo-American law. Copyright is a statutory government grant of temporary monopoly, not a Common Law property right. (Donaldson v Beckett, 1774.) Likewise, the U.S. Constitution treats copyrights and patents as unilateral contracts, not as property.

I consider my book to be my intellectual property, all 126,780 words, arranged in a unique order, which tells a coherent story. It is available as printed matter and a digital file. Your analogy with slavery seems very strange, but when any thief tries to justify their actions, it always sounds strange.

If you were to buy a copy of my book and make copies of it, to either sell or distribute for free, you have stolen more than one copy of a book. Maybe I should have written it in French.

Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.

If you own the text, than making an illegitimate copy simply is no property crime at all. You still have the text afterwards, and can do with it whatever you were going to do with it without impediment.

If you own the right to control distribution, than arguably piracy is a form of vandalism but still no theft: You had something (ability to exclusively control distribution) which you no longer have - but the perpetrator does not gain that same thing through the act - even if he can now distribute the text, he never will be able to do so exclusively since you still can make copies available to everyone he's unwilling to do business with. It remains vandalism even when it's done commercially: The perpetuator gains something of value, but it's not the thing you lost, which is lost to everybody. An analogy might be burning your house down, filming the event, and getting rich from the page traffic that spectacular video generates. That would be a crime certainly, but theft it is not.

There are valid arguments for copyright, but "it's theft, and just like any other theft" isn't one of them.
 
I consider my book to be my intellectual property, all 126,780 words, arranged in a unique order, which tells a coherent story. It is available as printed matter and a digital file. Your analogy with slavery seems very strange, but when any thief tries to justify their actions, it always sounds strange.

If you were to buy a copy of my book and make copies of it, to either sell or distribute for free, you have stolen more than one copy of a book. Maybe I should have written it in French.

Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.

If you own the text, than making an illegitimate copy simply is no property crime at all. You still have the text afterwards, and can do with it whatever you were going to do with it without impediment.

If you own the right to control distribution, than arguably piracy is a form of vandalism but still no theft: You had something (ability to exclusively control distribution) which you no longer have - but the perpetrator does not gain that same thing through the act - even if he can now distribute the text, he never will be able to do so exclusively since you still can make copies available to everyone he's unwilling to do business with. It remains vandalism even when it's done commercially: The perpetuator gains something of value, but it's not the thing you lost, which is lost to everybody. An analogy might be burning your house down, filming the event, and getting rich from the page traffic that spectacular video generates. That would be a crime certainly, but theft it is not.

There are valid arguments for copyright, but "it's theft, and just like any other theft" isn't one of them.

The rationalization, "I didn't steal anything from you because what I took can't be protected and what can't be protected, can't be owned," is as good as any.
 
Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.
What is stolen is the opportunity.
 
I already said in what respect they're analogous: they're analogous in that the argument Bronzeage made could equally well have been made about slaves; ... Until you or someone else exhibits some way in which the parallel breaks down, relying on his argument for the existence of intellectual property is a special-pleading fallacy. Can you exhibit such a breakdown? (Conversely, if you can't exhibit such a breakdown, but you regard a sequence of words as ownable for some different reason from the argument Bronzeage gave, then the legitimacy of my analogy is moot since it only existed for the purpose of rebutting Bronzeage's argument.) ...

A slave is a human being who can suffer and have his life and family destroyed by assholes more powerful than him; a book is the production of a human mind and cannot suffer, has no feelings, rights, or anything else: it's just a series of words strung together in a unique fashion. A slave trader or slave owner has no legitimate claim on a human being,
Are you trying to rescue Bronzeage's argument? The differences you're bringing up have no connection to the reasons he offered. A slave's suffering doesn't stop a slaver from holding him prisoner, doesn't stop the neighbors from siding with the slaver, and doesn't stop the slaver from considering the slave rightfully his; a book's lack of feelings doesn't make exclusivity enforceable, doesn't make the neighbors regard people who copy it as thieves, and doesn't make the author's considering that he owns it any stronger a feeling than the slaver's.

If you're offering your own argument and aren't trying to rescue Bronzeage's argument, then there's no reason for us to discuss slavery any further since I only brought it up because it demonstrates that his argument was illogical. The slavery analogy was never meant to refute all arguments for intellectual property, only Bronzeage's.

For instance, this is a completely different and considerably better argument for it:

but an author's claim to a piece of work is legitimate, by virtue of the fact that she has produced it.
Certainly; just as a caveman's claim to the hand axe he produced is legitimate. If another caveman grabbed the hand axe and walked off with it he'd be in the wrong; likewise, if a reader grabbed the author's manuscript and drove off with it he'd be in the wrong. But if another caveman sees the first one making the hand axe, thinks "What a good idea!", and starts making one just like it, do you think that the second caveman is in the wrong? Imitating one another has been such an integral part of our ancestors' survival strategy for so many millions of years that we call it "aping". At some point in our evolutionary past did it suddenly become the same thing as grabbing something and walking off with it?

If you think producing something gives you a legitimate claim that other people have no right to copy what you produced, here's another example to consider. Twenty years ago the grocery stores around here had decent kiwi fruit from New Zealand for a few months of the year; the rest of the year only California-grown crud. Some clever person in New Zealand had produced a business plan: "I'll get the farmers here to sell me their fruit that gets ripe in abundance here at this time of year, I'll put it on a boat, and I'll sell it in California; and people there will pay me a lot more than I'll be paying for it because the kiwi fruit that grows there in abundance tastes like crud." It worked; it was a good business plan. But things have changed in the last twenty years. Today I can get tasty kiwi fruit in my grocery store most of the year, imported from Chile and Italy. It appears some less clever Chileans and Italians saw what the New Zealander was doing, thought "What a good idea!", and started copying her business plan.

My question to you is, do you think that this New Zealander has a legitimate claim that she has a right to prohibit the Chileans and Italians from copying her business plan, by virtue of the fact that she has produced it?

This isn't to say that other people have a right to copy Bronzeage's book. There are all sorts of things people have no right to do even though they aren't theft. In this case, his claim that others have no right to copy his book is legitimate, by virtue of the fact that Congress passed a copyright law as authorized by the Constitution, and the term of the copyright hasn't expired yet. Congress made a deal with Bronzeage: "You write a book, and in exchange we'll take away a part of other people's right to copy it and give that right to you." That's the same deal the city council makes with fire fighters: "You put out fires, and we'll take away a part of other people's money and give that money to you." A person who won't give up his right to copy the book so Congress can keep its promise is the same kind of person as one who won't give up his money so the city council can keep its promise. Not a thief; a tax evader.

So what difference does it make? Does it matter whether the wrongdoer is a thief or a tax cheat? Does it matter whether a copyright is property or a contract? Yes, it absolutely matters. People's widespread habit of erroneously thinking of information as something that can be owned gives Disney and its clones cover to endlessly extend copyrights to longer and longer periods, thereby turning the Constitution's requirement that the government-granted monopoly be for a limited time into a de facto dead letter. A hand axe doesn't become part of the commons seventy years after the guy who made it dies. It can be passed down to his descendants forever. So if we're pretending that information is the same thing as a hand axe, then why should there be any such thing as copyright expiration, or, for that matter, fair use, parodies, derivative works, or even temporary copies in your computer's memory? That's what's at stake here, not just Bronzeage's need to call people who disagree with him thieves whether we infringe his copyright or not.
 
No. You dont get it. The text just says that the copyright was not stolen. There is still something dowlong was deprived of, but just not the copyright.
Maybe I should have clearly stated not wholly deprived. An infringer is possibly depriving the copyright owner some income if they would have purchased the copyrighted work instead of viewed it by illicit means. But like he said thats a more complex set of property interests than the term theft covers.
 
Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.
What is stolen is the opportunity.

Which opportunity? The opportunity to grant third parties access isn't stolen because the original owner still can do that. The opportunity for doing so exclusively is destroyed but not stolen because neither the perpetrator nor the original owner now has it.

- - - Updated - - -

Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.

If you own the text, than making an illegitimate copy simply is no property crime at all. You still have the text afterwards, and can do with it whatever you were going to do with it without impediment.

If you own the right to control distribution, than arguably piracy is a form of vandalism but still no theft: You had something (ability to exclusively control distribution) which you no longer have - but the perpetrator does not gain that same thing through the act - even if he can now distribute the text, he never will be able to do so exclusively since you still can make copies available to everyone he's unwilling to do business with. It remains vandalism even when it's done commercially: The perpetuator gains something of value, but it's not the thing you lost, which is lost to everybody. An analogy might be burning your house down, filming the event, and getting rich from the page traffic that spectacular video generates. That would be a crime certainly, but theft it is not.

There are valid arguments for copyright, but "it's theft, and just like any other theft" isn't one of them.

The rationalization, "I didn't steal anything from you because what I took can't be protected and what can't be protected, can't be owned," is as good as any.

Good thing then that this has no relation whatsoever to what I wrote.

Try again after reading my post maybe?
 
What is stolen is the opportunity.

Which opportunity? The opportunity to grant third parties access isn't stolen because the original owner still can do that. The opportunity for doing so exclusively is destroyed but not stolen because neither the perpetrator nor the original owner now has it.
So consumables cannot be stolen???
 
Which opportunity? The opportunity to grant third parties access isn't stolen because the original owner still can do that. The opportunity for doing so exclusively is destroyed but not stolen because neither the perpetrator nor the original owner now has it.
So consumables cannot be stolen???

Of course they can. The act of stealing, by which person A is illegitimately stripped of ownership of an item which person B gains, is logically independent and prior to the act of consumption.

Care to answer my question?
 
What is stolen is the opportunity.

Which opportunity? The opportunity to grant third parties access isn't stolen because the original owner still can do that. The opportunity for doing so exclusively is destroyed but not stolen because neither the perpetrator nor the original owner now has it.

- - - Updated - - -

Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.

If you own the text, than making an illegitimate copy simply is no property crime at all. You still have the text afterwards, and can do with it whatever you were going to do with it without impediment.

If you own the right to control distribution, than arguably piracy is a form of vandalism but still no theft: You had something (ability to exclusively control distribution) which you no longer have - but the perpetrator does not gain that same thing through the act - even if he can now distribute the text, he never will be able to do so exclusively since you still can make copies available to everyone he's unwilling to do business with. It remains vandalism even when it's done commercially: The perpetuator gains something of value, but it's not the thing you lost, which is lost to everybody. An analogy might be burning your house down, filming the event, and getting rich from the page traffic that spectacular video generates. That would be a crime certainly, but theft it is not.

There are valid arguments for copyright, but "it's theft, and just like any other theft" isn't one of them.

The rationalization, "I didn't steal anything from you because what I took can't be protected and what can't be protected, can't be owned," is as good as any.

Good thing then that this has no relation whatsoever to what I wrote.

Try again after reading my post maybe?

If your argument was valid, no one would mind if you snuck into a theater without paying for a ticket. The movie still exists.
 
Which opportunity? The opportunity to grant third parties access isn't stolen because the original owner still can do that. The opportunity for doing so exclusively is destroyed but not stolen because neither the perpetrator nor the original owner now has it.

- - - Updated - - -

Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.

If you own the text, than making an illegitimate copy simply is no property crime at all. You still have the text afterwards, and can do with it whatever you were going to do with it without impediment.

If you own the right to control distribution, than arguably piracy is a form of vandalism but still no theft: You had something (ability to exclusively control distribution) which you no longer have - but the perpetrator does not gain that same thing through the act - even if he can now distribute the text, he never will be able to do so exclusively since you still can make copies available to everyone he's unwilling to do business with. It remains vandalism even when it's done commercially: The perpetuator gains something of value, but it's not the thing you lost, which is lost to everybody. An analogy might be burning your house down, filming the event, and getting rich from the page traffic that spectacular video generates. That would be a crime certainly, but theft it is not.

There are valid arguments for copyright, but "it's theft, and just like any other theft" isn't one of them.

The rationalization, "I didn't steal anything from you because what I took can't be protected and what can't be protected, can't be owned," is as good as any.

Good thing then that this has no relation whatsoever to what I wrote.

Try again after reading my post maybe?

If your argument was valid, no one would mind if you snuck into a theater without paying for a ticket. The movie still exists.

Sneaking into a movie theatre without paying isn't theft. It is possible for things to be illegal, immoral, or even fattening, without also being theft.

Just because someone objects to your actions, that doesn't make them theft.

Just because someone argues that a particular course of action is not theft, does not make their argument one of support for that action.

If you were to claim that somebody punching you in the face was theft, then there would be plenty of people here to point out that you are wrong, regardless of whether they condone your being punched in the face, or indeed, punches in the face in general.

If someone buys your book, makes a copy, and sells that copy, then they have done you wrong. But they haven't committed theft, any more than they would have committed theft had they instead punched you in the face.
 
Which opportunity? The opportunity to grant third parties access isn't stolen because the original owner still can do that. The opportunity for doing so exclusively is destroyed but not stolen because neither the perpetrator nor the original owner now has it.

- - - Updated - - -

Theft is a process by which ownership of / control over an item is illegitimately transferred from one person to another. We first have to ask, when you say you consider your book "all 126,780 words" and all your property, do you mean the text, or the exclusive right to control who gets access to the text? It will turn out that in neither case a copyright infringement qualifies for theft, but what exactly it is and whether it is any property crime at all depends on what you claim to own.

If you own the text, than making an illegitimate copy simply is no property crime at all. You still have the text afterwards, and can do with it whatever you were going to do with it without impediment.

If you own the right to control distribution, than arguably piracy is a form of vandalism but still no theft: You had something (ability to exclusively control distribution) which you no longer have - but the perpetrator does not gain that same thing through the act - even if he can now distribute the text, he never will be able to do so exclusively since you still can make copies available to everyone he's unwilling to do business with. It remains vandalism even when it's done commercially: The perpetuator gains something of value, but it's not the thing you lost, which is lost to everybody. An analogy might be burning your house down, filming the event, and getting rich from the page traffic that spectacular video generates. That would be a crime certainly, but theft it is not.

There are valid arguments for copyright, but "it's theft, and just like any other theft" isn't one of them.

The rationalization, "I didn't steal anything from you because what I took can't be protected and what can't be protected, can't be owned," is as good as any.

Good thing then that this has no relation whatsoever to what I wrote.

Try again after reading my post maybe?

If your argument was valid, no one would mind if you snuck into a theater without paying for a ticket. The movie still exists.

Sneaking into a movie theatre without paying isn't theft. It is possible for things to be illegal, immoral, or even fattening, without also being theft.

Just because someone objects to your actions, that doesn't make them theft.

Just because someone argues that a particular course of action is not theft, does not make their argument one of support for that action.

If you were to claim that somebody punching you in the face was theft, then there would be plenty of people here to point out that you are wrong, regardless of whether they condone your being punched in the face, or indeed, punches in the face in general.

If someone buys your book, makes a copy, and sells that copy, then they have done you wrong. But they haven't committed theft, any more than they would have committed theft had they instead punched you in the face.

Well, there you go. It's not theft, by definition. It's some other kind of act, probably slightly lower on the moral scale.

I'm not convinced. I think most of this philosophical wrangling is what one sees when people who consider themselves to be good and moral discover a temptation which comes with little risk.
 
Back
Top Bottom