Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Loren Pechtel]

Never used a gun, habitually makes up shit like "the AR15 is just like any other .22 caliber hunting rifle", gets educated, and still doesn't learn. Revolvers are semiautomatics. Fucking hopeless.

Yup. It is indeed hopeless. The poster is only one among many who have fallen victim to the obfuscations, deceptions and outright lies of the gun industry. Like this poster, they really don’t want to learn about guns. Facts might get in the way of their a priori delusions.

They're the same in the important aspects.

Not really. If you rapid fire a revolver there will be considerably more waver than would occur with a semi- auto. At least with me using them.

ETA: Once upon a time I had a roomie who owned a beautiful pearl handled long barrel Colt .22 revolver. We used to plink with it a lot. It was deadly accurate if you took your time, but I wanted to learn to “fan” six shots. Got to where I could empty the cylinder real quick, but damned if I could hit a can at 20 feet doing that.

Reload time is also considerably longer with a revolver.

Reload time is almost never a factor.

It certainly is in a mass shooting.

Or had you forgotten what the topic of the thread is?

No. We have a total of one mass shooting where reloading was actually relevant and even there speed didn't matter because the guy messed up and couldn't actually reload. Otherwise nobody has been under time pressure to reload. The Vegas guy brought a ton of guns instead of reloading, everyone else has had far more time than they needed.

 

[Derec]

Overkilled? He put 5 rounds into the robber after he went down and was lying prone on the floor.

Yes, overkill. How would you call it?

The last of which was after the shooter had taken the gun off him. Clearly someone who had not been paying attention in a concealed carry certification class where they explain the state laws to you and advise people on how to act in self defense.

We seem to agree on that at least.

I would say the first four shots are questionable - it can be seen both ways, and it is impossible to know what was going through the shooter's mind. But he did shoot him in the back as the robber was attempting to walk away from him - that much is a fact. ]

Here we disagree. First four shots are clear self-defense to me. And of course the bad guy is turned away - the shooter does not want to be seen pulling his gun.

Shots 5 through 9, not so much. He wasn't defending anybody, he wanted tokill him.

Yeah. The only excuse he might use is adrenaline. And even that is iffy for the coup de grâce.

 

[Derec]

No it doesn't, that is NOT what semiautomatic means.

Please read what I write in context. That sentence was not meant as a full definition of semiautomatic. I also did not call revolvers semiautomatic, although they are similar in some ways.

Autoloaders like the AR15, 1911, Glock 17 etc use the energy from the last cartridge to drive the ejector, feed a fresh cartridge into the breech, and put the hammer/striker pin into battery. Revolvers don't do that.

Double action revolvers are functionally similar to semiautos. Both will advance the next round with each trigger pull and are ready to shoot again. Semiautos use gas pressure to do it, revolvers use a mechanical linkage. Kind of like the difference between turbochargers and superchargers. Both compress intake air, but differ in how they do it. Oh, and revolvers do not eject spent casings. Makes it easier to police one's brass.

Revolvers are NOT semiautomatic autoloaders.

I never said that revolvers were semiautomatic. You just want to argue, which is frustrating.

And we're back to square one. Never used a gun, habitually makes up shit like "the AR15 is just like any other .22 caliber hunting rifle", gets educated, and still doesn't learn.

Yes, we are back to square one. But because of you, not me.
There are .223 hunting rifles not affected by the 1990s "assault weapon" ban but with very similar ballistic characteristics to AR15s. There are also rifles not subject to the ban firing a cartridge similar to (if not identical) to the 7.62x39 used by the AK47. That was my point and you know it. You keep ignoring it and instead prefer to keep getting hung up on the third digit after the decimal point.

Revolvers are semiautomatics. Fucking hopeless.

I never called revolvers semiautomatic. But they (at least re double action revolvers) function similarly. You pull the trigger, it fires, you may pull the trigger again. Fucking hopeless is right. But it is you, and your gotcha games, that are hopeless. Not me.

 

[Derec]

Yup. It is indeed hopeless. The poster is only one among many who have fallen victim to the obfuscations, deceptions and outright lies of the gun industry. Like this poster, they really don’t want to learn about guns. Facts might get in the way of their a priori delusions.

The one who is obfuscating and playing gotcha games is attrib. Like arguing over third digit after the decimal point for weeks (and ignoring the actual point I made) or pretending I made claims I never did.

Not really. If you rapid fire a revolver there will be considerably more waver than would occur with a semi- auto. At least with me using them.

A good point, finally. I do not know how ported revolvers compare though.

 

[Derec]

It certainly is in a mass shooting.
Or had you forgotten what the topic of the thread is?

Hence my idea with the backpack-o-revolvers and dropping empty ones.
Although it may be easier, post a hypothetical total semi-auto ban (advocated by some on here and maybe even by Biden if we take him at his gaffe-prone word), for any serious mass shooter, to get a ghost (or any illegal) semi auto than to bother with legal guns. When semiauto handguns are outlawed, only outlaws will have semiauto handguns.

Note also that definitions of mass shootings differ, but all tend to be within the capabilities of a revolver without reloading.

Mass shootings are not just Sandy Hook, Parkland, Virginia Tech etc. Those are outliers even among mass shootings.

 

[bilby]

Mass shootings are not just Sandy Hook, Parkland, Virginia Tech etc. Those are outliers even among mass shootings.

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

That should make you think.

But I'm aware that it won't.

 

[Elixir]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

The concept of outliers is only “necessary” to excuse the constant killing that goes on in the US.
Countries that are not beholden to the gun industry (virtually all except the US) don’t have any need to categorize their mass murders.

 

[bilby]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

The concept of outliers is only “necessary” to excuse the constant killing that goes on in the US.
Countries that are not beholden to the gun industry (virtually all except the US) don’t have any need to categorize their mass murders.

We don't have enough of them to categorise.

In the past twenty years, we have had an average of one mass murder every two years; Adjusting for population, that would be the equivalent of about seven mass murders per annum in the USA.

That's using the broadest definition of a mass murder; 4 or more dead, including the perpetrator, any location, any reason, any weapon/means.

Note that the graphic above lists only US shooting murders, and excludes other weapons.

 

[Elixir]

We don't have enough of them to categorise.

Nor does any other Country that isn’t awash in guns.
But that’s probably a coincidence. I’d have to ask our arms and ballistics expert from Atlanta.

 

[Oleg]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

Different demographics.

 

[ZiprHead]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

Different demographics.

WTF is that supposed to mean?

 

[Oleg]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

Different demographics.

WTF is that supposed to mean?

In the US, black males are wildly overrepresented as homicide offenders and victims. This is true even for mass shootings. In 2021, 75% of mass shooters were black.

Mass shooting database

mass-shootings.info

A Drumbeat of Multiple Shootings, but America Isn’t Listening (Published 2016)

Most shootings with four deaths or injuries are invisible outside their communities. And most of the lives they scar are black.

www.nytimes.com

Over all, though, nearly three-fourths of victims and suspected assailants whose race could be identified were black. Some experts suggest that helps explain why the drumbeat of dead and wounded does not inspire more outrage.

Demographics matter.

 

[Patooka]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

Different demographics.

You know, I was wondering if you would point out how white people are superior but them you went all Stefan Molyneux and openly articulated darkies are the real problem. I'm just disappointed you didn't wheel out the "fact" niggers make 13% of the population but cause 50% of crime. Because poverty and discrimination aren't the problem, niggers are the problem.

There, I said the quiet part out loud for you. You're welcome.

 

[Elixir]

Of the 600+ "mass shooting" perps in the US in 2022, how many were white people?

 

[Derec]

In the US, black males are wildly overrepresented as homicide offenders and victims. This is true even for mass shootings. In 2021, 75% of mass shooters were black.

Don't you know that white males are automatically the problem, no matter what. Fauxgressivism is never having to say that certain groups (blacks, women, Muslims) people are responsible for anything.

Over all, though, nearly three-fourths of victims and suspected assailants whose race could be identified were black. Some experts suggest that helps explain why the drumbeat of dead and wounded does not inspire more outrage.

It does inspire outrage, as long as whitey can be blamed somehow. See Patooka's reply.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Shots 5 through 9, not so much. He wasn't defending anybody, he wanted tokill him.

Yeah. The only excuse he might use is adrenaline. And even that is iffy for the coup de grâce.

5 through 8 could be explained by the inherent delay of deciding that a target is no longer a threat. #9, though, is out-and-out murder to me.

 

[Derec]

I'm just disappointed you didn't wheel out the "fact" niggers make 13% of the population but cause 50% of crime.

Why did you put that in scare quotes? It is an actual fact, not a "fact".

Because poverty and discrimination aren't the problem, niggers are the problem.

You are the one using racial slurs, not me or Oleg. Let the record reflect that.
What "poverty" or "discrimination" caused, for example, Kenyatta Lee Oglesby to shoot up his girlfriend's family?
Or some teens to shoot at a fellow 15 year old near Atlantic Station in Atlanta, killing him and a 12 year old in their own crew?
It is soft bigotry of low expectations to blame everybody but the perpetrators when so-called "people of color" commit violent crimes. To the left, it's always somebody else's fault, usually somebody white.

There, I said the quiet part out loud for you. You're welcome.

It seems you fauxgressives are the only ones who are. Should make you think about your own way of thinking here.

 

[Patooka]

I'm just disappointed you didn't wheel out the "fact" niggers make 13% of the population but cause 50% of crime.

Why did you put that in scare quotes? It is an actual fact, not a "fact".

Because poverty and discrimination aren't the problem, niggers are the problem.

You are the one using racial slurs, not me or Oleg. Let the record reflect that.
What "poverty" or "discrimination" caused, for example, Kenyatta Lee Oglesby to shoot up his girlfriend's family?
Or some teens to shoot at a fellow 15 year old near Atlantic Station in Atlanta, killing him and a 12 year old in their own crew?
It is soft bigotry of low expectations to blame everybody but the perpetrators when so-called "people of color" commit violent crimes. To the left, it's always somebody else's fault, usually somebody white.

There, I said the quiet part out loud for you. You're welcome.

It seems you fauxgressives are the only ones who are. Should make you think about your own way of thinking here.

I'm honestly surprised you leaped to Oleg's defense. I did not see that coming.

 

[Derec]

I'm honestly surprised you leaped to Oleg's defense. I did not see that coming.

Why? I do not agree with him on everything, but he is not wrong here.
If a certain demographic group commits 5 or 6x the homicides than another (as US blacks do, no matter what the reasons might be), then demographics have to be taken into account when comparing homicide rates across countries with different demographic breakdowns.

 

[Oleg]

Only the USA has enough mass shootings for the concept of "outliers" to be necessary.

Different demographics.

You know, I was wondering if you would point out how white people are superior but them you went all Stefan Molyneux and openly articulated darkies are the real problem. I'm just disappointed you didn't wheel out the "fact" niggers make 13% of the population but cause 50% of crime. Because poverty and discrimination aren't the problem, niggers are the problem.

There, I said the quiet part out loud for you. You're welcome.

Eh, do you deny the stat? Yes or no? You're never gonna fix a problem if you refuse to acknowledge facts you do not like.