Split Electric Vehicles (from Twitter idiot)

[Derec]

If you're charging your car in Florida, you're still doing the CO₂ thing. Same with most of the US apart from the NW areas, and NY state where there's lots of hydropower.

There are always some CO₂ emissions. But in general, your CO₂-mpg equivalent will be better than most gasoline cars in most of the US, including Florida.

Possible caveat - this map is from an article from 2018. I doubt that things have changed drastically since then though.

In any case, more nuclear would drive these mpgs much higher though.

 

[Derec]

I don't get all the hate outside of his stupid tweets.

I don't either. There is an irrational amount of visceral hate against the guy.

In fact our government seems to want to aid foreign car makers over Tesla with the EV tax credit rules.

In the original Biden plan they wanted to ice out Tesla entirely, simply because they were not subject to UAW. Petty politics.

 

[Derec]

Tesla's Ludacris cruise control?

Huh? The rapper? You may be confusing it with the Ludicrous Mode?

This also explains Tesla Model S Plaid.

 

[Derec]

All things equal, I don't think EV is helping the environment much. Certainly cornering the market on $100,000 EVs is also an achievement, but not particularly useful for the average Joe. Yes, he sells cheaper ones, but you can't go on vacation in them.

But that's how technology develops. It is at first expensive, so it is found in the upper price segments. Then technology matures, gets less expensive both through technology improvements and efficiencies of scale. That's what happened in the automotive world with all sorts of advancements. They were first put in expensive cars like the Mercedes S Class but then found their way down-market.

Making EVs subcompact glorified golf carts, like car companies did in the 90s and early 2000s, was a mistake. Going that way, we'd have the G-Wiz Mk VI or something, and not Tesla Model 3 or electric F150 or Mercedes EQE. No, starting with $100k sports cars was the right move.

 

[Derec]

Yes there is zero emissions AS YOU DRIVE. There are still emissions generated from using the electricity to charge up from coal fired power plants.

Easier to control emissions from a hundreds of power plant smokestacks than from hundreds of millions of tailpipes. And power plants tend not to be in cities where many people can breathe them in.
That said, coal is a diminishing source of US electricity production. It lost a lot of share since 2010 or so. Thanks in large part to fracking/shale revolution.

The quip about "coal-powered cars" is largely outdated now. Of course, hardcore environmentalists hate fracking and many of them hate nuclear too. Which is a real shame.

There are emissions to make the car and the lithium for the battery is mined somewhere - usually 3rd world countries that have little to no environmental controls.

Which is one of the reasons (the other being national security; we can't allow mining to be dominated by China) we need more lithium (as well as rare earth and good old copper) mining in the US. Of course, environmentalists (and Indians) tend to be against mining too.
Plans To Dig the Biggest Lithium Mine in the US Face Mounting Opposition

Thankfully there is recycling of the lithium car batteries now once your all done with the vehicle.

Yes. Unlike oil, lithium in batteries does not get used up and can be used for new batteries.

 

[Derec]

The ultimate solution is will be the hydrogen tech Toyota is working on. But that is way down the line. The main point being not to get so focused on the disadvantages of dirty batteries not to see the forest from the trees

While H₂ fuel cell vehicles may be a solution for certain applications where BEVs are not viable, I do not see them being the dominant player. Making hydrogen and then making electricity back is inefficient and hydrogen is difficult to store. Furthermore, I am sure EV owners love the idea of charging cheaply at home - with H₂ you are 100% relying on a centralized fuel infrastructure like legacy gasoline as diesel.

 

[Derec]

But yes, helium isn't in abundance these days.

Not surprising. Helium is the 2nd lightest element and gas, and as a noble gas does not get bound in compounds (unlike reactive hydrogen).
So the only sources are helium (from α decay in Earth's interior) getting trapped in rock formations. That's why traditionally helium has been found together with natural gas.
But those rock formations have been tapped for over a 100 years now, and uranium and thorium in the deep Earth are slow to make more.

 

[Derec]

Do I need to rent a car every time I need or want to drive more than 100 miles? Yes, a Tesla gets one further, but again, what is the point on paying extra for a car I can't drive everywhere I want?

Plenty of EVs these days get >100 miles to a charge. You don't need a Tesla for that.

 

[Derec]

If you have a massive solar array that can generate around 300kWh of electricity per day, and a bank of a dozen Powerwall style batteries, then you could probably charge a Tesla 3 overnight using just solar power. The charging equipment would likely cost considerably more than the car, though.

The biggest Tesla 3 battery is 82 kWh and would rarely be (almost) empty. Are you proposing <30% post-solar panel efficiency here?

The problem you're always going to face is that there's a significant loss in charging any battery, and going Solar>Home Battery>Car Battery entails doubling that loss.

There will always be losses, but I think you are exaggerating them.
That said, I see nothing wrong with charging from the grid at night. Yes, most US electricity is still fossil, but coal is a far smaller share than it used to be. Natural gas has lower CO₂ emissions than coal and is far cleaner re other emissions. And large central power plants can be much more efficient and control their emissions far better than individual cars operating at variable engine speeds (ICE engines tend to be most efficient in a narrow band of engine speeds).

I would love to see US adopt more nuclear. The current energy mix is not a detriment to wider EV adoption however.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do I need to rent a car every time I need or want to drive more than 100 miles? Yes, a Tesla gets one further, but again, what is the point on paying extra for a car I can't drive everywhere I want?

Plenty of EVs these days get >100 miles to a charge. You don't need a Tesla for that.

You need to be able to get back, right?

 

[Gospel]

Do I need to rent a car every time I need or want to drive more than 100 miles? Yes, a Tesla gets one further, but again, what is the point on paying extra for a car I can't drive everywhere I want?

Plenty of EVs these days get >100 miles to a charge. You don't need a Tesla for that.

You need to be able to get back, right?

Please elaborate. I've driven from FL to NC and was able to get back in the same EV I left in taking under 1hr for breaks on a roughly 20hr round trip. That is significantly further than the one you complain about having a life shattering 40 minute wait to recharge. Bruh, I left my house on a full charge in Orlando Florida and didn't have to charge until I reached St George in NC!!

Edit: By I, I really mean my wife and I.

Edit2: Sorry we did actually make a 25 minute stop to charge in Savannah. She just reminded me. Zoinks! That was to eat so, I forgot we did a charge as well.

 

[ZiprHead]

Do I need to rent a car every time I need or want to drive more than 100 miles? Yes, a Tesla gets one further, but again, what is the point on paying extra for a car I can't drive everywhere I want?

Plenty of EVs these days get >100 miles to a charge. You don't need a Tesla for that.

You need to be able to get back, right?

My wife works in the next county NW of here. Derec's EV example would be great for her to get there and back with plenty to spare.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Wyoming, a resolution to recommend residents buy ICE vehicles and phase out the sale of EVs.

They should have written it in crayon.

The Drive article.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wyoming, a resolution to recommend residents buy ICE vehicles and phase out the sale of EVs.

They should have written it in crayon.

The Drive article.

Do I need to guess which side of the aisle this legislation came from?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Use this https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

Edit: That one should show more than just Tesla chargers.

Edit: Is there a place you know of (other than the one you go to) that the map also shows the same absence of chargers? I'm not a camper so I wouldn't know where to look. I just need a test case so I can try for myself without doxing you.

I don't hide where I am--Las Vegas. I picked the visitor center of Death Valley as my objective--actually it was 35.91215, -116.58582. It's the intersection of Jubilee Pass Road and a dirt track that AFIAK only has a number, not a name. Actually, anywhere within about 2 hours of Las Vegas--the only supercharger I'm aware of lies 2 hours NE of here, St. George, Utah--and I almost never go that way because the travel time gets too high for day hiking.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Wyoming, a resolution to recommend residents buy ICE vehicles and phase out the sale of EVs.

They should have written it in crayon.

The Drive article.

Do I need to guess which side of the aisle this legislation came from?

Aisle? Look at the rosters and try to imagine this aisle.
https://www.wyoleg.gov/Legislators

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Wyoming, a resolution to recommend residents buy ICE vehicles and phase out the sale of EVs.

They should have written it in crayon.

The Drive article.

Do I need to guess which side of the aisle this legislation came from?

Is Texas still making incandescent light bulbs?

 

[ZiprHead]

What's their next big idea? Putting lead back into gas and paint?

 

[steve_bank]

Tesla's market was upscale peole who could afford the price. I doubt the environment was what Musk was thinking about. He created a luxury product for which there was a ready market..

As to Chinese competition , from reporting American manufacturers are all phasing out mass production of gas cars,

It is illconcieved with probable unintended negative consequences. What happens if powr goes down in an area for week? Emergency vehicles?

State ad federal mandates to end sales of gas cars by a fixed date is irrational. The infrastructure is not there and there is no coherent national plan to address it. The grid will be inadequate.

An orderly tradition should be tied to infrastructure.

There are already problems being reported, finding charging stations that actually work.

Biden givng money away for charging staions is not enough, tere has to be a pln. But that is left modus operandi, spend a lot of money in a good cause without any way to measure progress or attainment of goals.

 

[Ford]

If I had to buy an EV today it would be the Bolt. It's the best deal out there for the price and for range. But I'm gonna hang onto my 2009 Honda Fit forever.

I was just talking about this today at my job.

A co-worker has a Chevy Bolt EUV on order.

Our autonomous vehicles are based on the Bolt, but as test beds, they're crap when it comes to creature comforts. Yet when I drove our support car - a stock Bolt - I was like "this isn't bad. If they built a slightly larger and nicer version, I'd consider it."

Not long after, the Bolt EUV debuted. A slightly larger and nicer version of the Bolt. My co-worker is a hardcore Toyota fan (he has a Prius), his wife hates Chevy vehicles (and American cars in general), but after test driving the EUV, they were both sold.

We have multiple charging stations at work, and I can't deny the appeal of ditching my weekly trip to the gas station in favor of an EV.