Split Electric Vehicles (from Twitter idiot)

[Gospel]

NE Ohio? What city exactly? I put in Cleveland OH to Tobermory ON and it has two stops 20min for one and 10min for the other with arriving in 8hr 17min. Could be I'm using the wrong City? I even tried Buffalo NY to see if there was a shortage of Chargers coming from that side of the lake and theirs's still no 40 minute charge required.

 

[Gospel]

Wait are you calling the 25+10=35min the 40 minute charge? Then yes it is 40 minutes. You don't care for stops (I forgot that). To me that's a smoke break and meal time that I would normally take using an ICE vehicle anyway. To me that's not a big enough of a deal breaker to do the CO2 thing for a leisure trip. Again that's just me. It's also not proof that EV's are not viable for road trips. Yes, depending on conditions it takes longer, that does not mean it can't be or shouldn't be done.

 

[Gospel]

Also, Orlando to Vancouver, is about two days of driving. Obviously, this one has breaks in it. But going from 47 hours to 60 hours, and pretending it ain't slowing one down is silly.

Pretending that people who drive ICE vehicles don't take breaks is silly. What I think our miscommunication is about is I don't care about the breaks and getting to my destination faster than someone driving an ICE vehicle is. That's preference. What I'm disputing is the claim that you can't drive an EV everywhere.

Edit: Not to mention that while I get there in a hypothetical 20 more hours, it would costs me nearly half as much in fuel.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

NE Ohio? What city exactly? I put in Cleveland OH to Tobermory ON and it has two stops 20min for one and 10min for the other with arriving in 8hr 17min. Could be I'm using the wrong City? I even tried Buffalo NY to see if there was a shortage of Chargers coming from that side of the lake and theirs's still no 40 minute charge required.

View attachment 41862

So, if one starts in Cleveland, you get those two stations. One starts in Akron, they get two different stations (Toledo and Sarnia... well Port Huron). Funny. The interesting thing is it is about 200 miles to Tobermory from Port Huron/Sarnia. You'd drive right by a charger on the way to Tobermory.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Also, Orlando to Vancouver, is about two days of driving. Obviously, this one has breaks in it. But going from 47 hours to 60 hours, and pretending it ain't slowing one down is silly.

Pretending that people who drive ICE vehicles don't take breaks is silly. What I think our miscommunication is about is I don't care about the breaks and getting to my destination faster than someone driving an ICE vehicle is. That's preference. What I'm disputing is the claim that you can't drive an EV everywhere.

Not without charging. The Tesla Model S will get you pretty much anywhere. But again... too damn expensive.

Edit: Not to mention that while I get there in a hypothetical 20 more hours, it would costs me nearly half as much in fuel.

You don't get to use that argument if the "travel" time is bumped up more than 30%!

 

[Gospel]

NE Ohio? What city exactly? I put in Cleveland OH to Tobermory ON and it has two stops 20min for one and 10min for the other with arriving in 8hr 17min. Could be I'm using the wrong City? I even tried Buffalo NY to see if there was a shortage of Chargers coming from that side of the lake and theirs's still no 40 minute charge required.

View attachment 41862

So, if one starts in Cleveland, you get those two stations. One starts in Akron, they get two different stations. Funny.

Yeah. There are a lot of chargers so depending on where you start a mile can make a difference between which charger it routes. You can actually chose your own charging locations from inside the Tesla.

 

[Gospel]

You don't get to use that argument if the "travel" time is bumped up more than 30%!

I'm confused. Are you saying I can't talk about how much it costs because of how long it takes in an EV? Fair enough. you can't talk about how long it takes because of how much it costs in a ICE.

 

[Gospel]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, because my Tesla can actually do 350 miles I don't have to stop every 200 miles. In some cases I can skip Tesla stops and just hit another one instead. Don't let the router fool you, there are more Chargers in route than it lets on. Sometimes it makes sense to drive a mile out of your way to save time when stopping at a charger along the highway sooner than needed doesn't make sense.

Edit: Repeating what I said before. That map only uses Tesla chargers. There is also Electrify America & Charge Point chargers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You don't get to use that argument if the "travel" time is bumped up more than 30%!

I'm confused. Are you saying I can't talk about how much it costs because of how long it takes in an EV? Fair enough. you can't talk about how long it takes because of how much it costs in a ICE.

If it takes 10 more hours to drive, that could be another hotel night.

So are we at the point in the discussion where you are ignoring you admit that time delay in driving an electric vehicle can add up on long distance travel?

Can you just let it go, and admit "yes, long distance travel with an electric car has downsides regarding charging... unless you pay close to or more than 6 digits for an EV"?

 

[Gospel]

If it takes 10 more hours to drive, that could be another hotel night.

Who needs hotel rooms if you have a Model Y or X. You can sleep in your car and use your Anytime Fitness membership for showers.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have enough helium

Helium is actually in very short supply. It's used in medical and physics research but we're wasting it on childrens party balloons.

But we don't have many blimps in use, the helium isn't a big issue.

I do loathe party balloons, though. I'm tired of bringing the remains out of the wilderness. Once you're a mile in litter drops to near zero, but I keep finding mylar balloons that eventually came to ground.

 

[Gospel]

So that rules out solar power as the electricity source

Only in the absence of storage.

Yeah, people have been using Solar to charge there Teslas at home for a while now. There are actually Solar EV chargers in the wild.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not sure what that even means. Most Americans drive less than 30 miles per day. I can't find a single EV out there that can't do 30 miles in one day. ICE vehicles should be flooding the rental market if we're gonna talk about the needs of a large percentage of Americans. It's cheaper to have a Nissan leaf for daily and rent a freaking Ferrari for the occasional long road trips than it is to hold on to that full ICE vehicle every day.

Edit: Ok I'm overexaggerating with the Ferrari but you know what I mean.

Average distance per day has little bearing on what car people choose. You don't choose based on 50% need, you choose base on something like 99% need.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not sure what that even means. Most Americans drive less than 30 miles per day. I can't find a single EV out there that can't do 30 miles in one day. ICE vehicles should be flooding the rental market if we're gonna talk about the needs of a large percentage of Americans. It's cheaper to have a Nissan leaf for daily and rent a freaking Ferrari for the occasional long road trips than it is to hold on to that full ICE vehicle every day.

Edit: Ok I'm overexaggerating with the Ferrari but you know what I mean.

Do I need to rent a car every time I need or want to drive more than 100 miles? Yes, a Tesla gets one further, but again, what is the point on paying extra for a car I can't drive everywhere I want? I don't drive very far very often, but much more often than it'd make sense to pay a premium... and then the added expense of renting a car.

Exactly. I could perfectly well use an electric in town, but it wouldn't be a good idea for hiking (and that's something that I do on a weekly basis or more, weather permitting.) Very few people would buy a car that means they're renting multiple times per year because they don't have enough car.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At a home, there can be batteries

Isn’t that where most people park their cars at night?

If you have a massive solar array that can generate around 300kWh of electricity per day, and a bank of a dozen Powerwall style batteries, then you could probably charge a Tesla 3 overnight using just solar power. The charging equipment would likely cost considerably more than the car, though.

The problem you're always going to face is that there's a significant loss in charging any battery, and going Solar>Home Battery>Car Battery entails doubling that loss.

AFIAK there is currently no storage system with a life cycle cost less than the typical grid cost of power. The only non-transient real world storage systems I'm aware of are stored-work systems, not stored-power systems. (Example: Run the AC at night, make ice. Cool the building during the day with that ice. It's storing cold, not power.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You keep saying you can't drive a Tesla everywhere you want and that's just not true.

I can drive from Orlando Florida to Vancouver, BC, Canada in 60hrs & 16min. All the red blips below are Tesla chargers with an average 20 minute charge time.
View attachment 41860

Try it yourself https://www.tesla.com/trips

I just tried it with the best approximation to my last hiking trip I could given the lookup ability of that system. Chargers: Zero. The battery state would have been unacceptably low on anything but the S. (In practice I would actually have been ok as my true destination was simply a point along the road, not the closest named point I entered.)

 

[Gospel]

Use this https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

Edit: That one should show more than just Tesla chargers.

Edit: Is there a place you know of (other than the one you go to) that the map also shows the same absence of chargers? I'm not a camper so I wouldn't know where to look. I just need a test case so I can try for myself without doxing you.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If I had to buy an EV today it would be the Bolt. It's the best deal out there for the price and for range. But I'm gonna hang onto my 2009 Honda Fit forever.

 

[bilby]

Wait are you calling the 25+10=35min the 40 minute charge? Then yes it is 40 minutes. You don't care for stops (I forgot that). To me that's a smoke break and meal time that I would normally take using an ICE vehicle anyway. To me that's not a big enough of a deal breaker to do the CO2 thing for a leisure trip. Again that's just me. It's also not proof that EV's are not viable for road trips. Yes, depending on conditions it takes longer, that does not mean it can't be or shouldn't be done.

If you're charging your car in Florida, you're still doing the CO₂ thing. Same with most of the US apart from the NW areas, and NY state where there's lots of hydropower.

 

[Derec]

First off, he didn't create Tesla, he came in after it was created, and I think forced out the founders.

He did not create it, true, but he did get it pretty early on and has developed it into what it has become.

He doesn't give a shit about the environment or EVs, he cares about his fortune.

Based on what are you claiming that "he doesn't give a shit about the environment"?

So he got government investment early on, but works against the government investing in any other EV company.

Isn't it kind of the other way around? Biden going out of his way not to invite Tesla to an EV summit. Also trying to make Teslas not eligible for a tax credit.

He produces expensive luxury EVs, rather than working to make them affordable and able to be a viable option for a lot of people.

The Tesla approach was exactly the right way to make EVs go mainstream. EV technology, esp. batteries, is expensive, and was much more so in mid-2000s when the original Roadster was developed.
Until then, what few EVs were available were small cars which were much more expensive than comparable ICE cars. But in luxury segment, one could have an EV that did not cost the double what a comparable ICE car would cost. That made say a Roadster an attractive option for somebody looking to spend $100k on a car. A subcompact should cost $12-15k. If it costs $25 or even $40k nobody would be buying.

He keeps people interested with various vaporware, promising amazing things to come in the next couple years for investors, but somehow never materialize. (hyperloop, solar panel shingles, electric truck)

Hyperloop is not part of Tesla, I don't think. Don't conflate companies! And many of the projects have been released: numerous Tesla models after the original Roaster (S, 3, X, Y). There is the Power Wall. And first semis have been delivered, so that is not vaporware. Neither are the shingles.
You are right that some things have been overhyped and pushed way too quickly. Notably the self-driving features.

He convinced states to not invest in high speed public trains, and instead invest in his projects that don't deliver. He tries to convince people he is Tony Stark, when he is more of a Trump, all show and little substance.

He is orders of magnitude more substantive than Trump.
And Tony Stark is a fictional character. If you expect anything akin to the ark reactor from reality, you will be disappointed every time.
Musk/Tesla should not be measured against such a ridiculous yardstick.
Reality is that Tesla has made electric cars viable and has pushed the legacy carmakers to enter that segment. Without Tesla, I doubt we would have the number and quality of EV models in 2022 we have.

I've heard other car companies are starting to make decent EVs, and that the military is having EVs developed for the field. Now that will be a big help if the military can go electric for a lot of its vehicles.

Which would not have happened at this rate if these companies were not pushed by Tesla.