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Louisiana Continues to Prove Just How Louisiana It Is

Jimmy Higgins

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article said:
The Justice Department released an investigative report Wednesday revealing that the Louisiana Department of Corrections is keeping over a quarter of its inmates in jail beyond their scheduled release dates, CNN reports. The department alleges that the LDOC has been "deliberately indifferent to the systemic overdetention of people in its custody" since at least 2012.

During its yearlong investigation, the Justice Department found that between Jan. and Apr. 2022, the LDOC held nearly 27 percent of the people scheduled for release beyond their scheduled departure. 24 percent of the nearly 4,100 people affected were held for a minimum of 90 extra days.
This reminds me of being in a hospital (in the US at least) with a loved one, and it is time to get out... but there is paperwork, maybe shot the patients needs, etc... and while you are ready to leave now, it could be hours.

I can't imagine being in jail and reaching the end of the sentence... and then staying in jail for 90+ more days. But how can we make this worse?
article said:
In a letter to Louisiana's governor attached to the report, the DOJ blames the violations on "systemic deficiencies in LDOC's policies and procedures related to the receipt of sentencing documents, computation of an incarcerated individuals' release dates, and employee training,"
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!
 
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!

At the risk of sticking a pin in your quivering outrage.

Ever consider the possibility that many inmates don't particularly want to leave? That they're rather comfortable living in a predictable environment, with taxpayers supplying everything that they really need?

That prison is better than the real world where they have to take responsibility for pretty much everything?
Tom
 
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!

At the risk of sticking a pin in your quivering outrage.

Ever consider the possibility that many inmates don't particularly want to leave? That they're rather comfortable living in a predictable environment, with taxpayers supplying everything that they really need?

That prison is better than the real world where they have to take responsibility for pretty much everything?
Tom
You may not be aware of this, but pretty much the defining feature of prison is that the inmates don't have any choice whatsoever about when they're going to be released.
 
You may not be aware of this, but pretty much the defining feature of prison is that the inmates don't have any choice whatsoever about when they're going to be released.
Why do you think I'm unaware of this?

You might not be aware of this, but lots of people prefer a predictable life where someone else handles the decisions and pays.

I'm not one, neither are you or Jimmy I'm sure. Nobody on this forum is.

But they're out there. I've known some in my long and checkered past. I'm confident it has a good deal to do with recidivism. People who have been controlled for months or years find the real world overwhelming.
Tom
 
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!
At the risk of sticking a pin in your quivering outrage.
That sentence isn't complete.
Ever consider the possibility that many inmates don't particularly want to leave? That they're rather comfortable living in a predictable environment, with taxpayers supplying everything that they really need?

That prison is better than the real world where they have to take responsibility for pretty much everything?
Gee, I guess that perspective makes this look much better and the DOJ was just trying to help reduce prison costs for Louisiana who was accidentally imprisoning people for longer than they should have been. I also apparently forgot how nice prison is... with the pre-arranged meals, housing, and sodomy.
 
That sentence isn't complete.
Report me to my favorite English teacher, Mrs Fox.
Excellent teacher and grammar nazi.

Oh noes! Another incomplete sentence...
, I guess that perspective makes this look much better and the DOJ was just trying to help reduce prison costs for Louisiana who was accidentally imprisoning people for longer than they should have been. I also apparently forgot how nice prison is... with the pre-arranged meals, housing, and sodomy.
No, I'm pointing out that humans are complex.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that "nearly 27%" of Louisiana inmates aren't looking at release the way most of us would. They're thinking "I've got no money and no place and no car. I've got nobody and am barely employable.
This place ain't great, but it's better than what I got outside."
They aren't standing at the door of their cell yelling "Lemme out!"

I don't claim to know. But I do know that there're people like that.
Tom
 
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!

At the risk of sticking a pin in your quivering outrage.

Ever consider the possibility that many inmates don't particularly want to leave? That they're rather comfortable living in a predictable environment, with taxpayers supplying everything that they really need?

That prison is better than the real world where they have to take responsibility for pretty much everything?
Tom
You sound a lot like my father, may he rest in peace. Not in the best way.

Yes, some people DO become institutionalized. This is an argument AGAINST long sentences for non-violent crimes, particularly for young people. Someone who went to prison for 10+ years when they were a teenager will likely have somewhat mixed feelings upon being released.

It also argues very strongly for rehabilitation programs to help those who have been imprisoned gain pertinent skills (life, job, education) to help them avoid re-offending.

Of course, if society did a better job of providing pertinent life skills including education and job training, as well as addiction recovery, there would be less crime in the first place.

Life was never, ever like an episode of Andy Griffith or Mayberry RFD. Or Happy Days or Laverne and Shirley.
 
I guess that perspective makes this look much better and the DOJ was just trying to help reduce prison costs for Louisiana who was accidentally imprisoning people for longer than they should have been. I also apparently forgot how nice prison is... with the pre-arranged meals, housing, and sodomy.
No, I'm pointing out that humans are complex.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that "nearly 27%" of Louisiana inmates aren't looking at release the way most of us would. They're thinking "I've got no money and no place and no car. I've got nobody and am barely employable.
This place ain't great, but it's better than what I got outside."
They aren't standing at the door of their cell yelling "Lemme out!"

I don't claim to know.
No, but you know... it's the first thing you posted about it. Like you just had to disagree.

Hmmm... people are being kept in prison longer than they should. How can I spin that? I know, they want to stay in prison.

Of course, we visit the fact that the DOJ is investigating it in the first place. I mean, if people weren't trying to get out... why would the DOJ be investigating?
But I do know that there're people like that.
Well these are the people in your neighborhood.

You may not be aware of this, but pretty much the defining feature of prison is that the inmates don't have any choice whatsoever about when they're going to be released.
Why do you think I'm unaware of this?

You might not be aware of this, but lots of people prefer a predictable life where someone else handles the decisions and pays.

I'm not one, neither are you or Jimmy I'm sure. Nobody on this forum is.
I don't know... you are selling this prison life thing pretty well, I'm giving it second thought. The one time I was in a prison (for work), it seemed kind of sucky. But clearly I wasn't giving it a serious enough look.
 
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!

At the risk of sticking a pin in your quivering outrage.

Ever consider the possibility that many inmates don't particularly want to leave? That they're rather comfortable living in a predictable environment, with taxpayers supplying everything that they really need?

That prison is better than the real world where they have to take responsibility for pretty much everything?
Tom
You sound a lot like my father, may he rest in peace. Not in the best way.

Yes, some people DO become institutionalized. This is an argument AGAINST long sentences for non-violent crimes, particularly for young people. Someone who went to prison for 10+ years when they were a teenager will likely have somewhat mixed feelings upon being released.

It also argues very strongly for rehabilitation programs to help those who have been imprisoned gain pertinent skills (life, job, education) to help them avoid re-offending.

Of course, if society did a better job of providing pertinent life skills including education and job training, as well as addiction recovery, there would be less crime in the first place.

Life was never, ever like an episode of Andy Griffith or Mayberry RFD. Or Happy Days or Laverne and Shirley.
You forgot that we need to make prison life harder, because it is a Utopian paradise with free room and board, internet access, and sodomy. People aren't committing crimes in Louisiana just for the fun of it... it is for that Prison Paradiso experience.
 
If I'm reading this right... it isn't because of malice, but because of incompetence. Malice would be awful, but at least one could imagine people just hating criminals and convicts. But for it to be because "DUUUUUHHHHH!" I can't imagine!

At the risk of sticking a pin in your quivering outrage.

Ever consider the possibility that many inmates don't particularly want to leave? That they're rather comfortable living in a predictable environment, with taxpayers supplying everything that they really need?

That prison is better than the real world where they have to take responsibility for pretty much everything?
Tom
You sound a lot like my father, may he rest in peace. Not in the best way.

Yes, some people DO become institutionalized. This is an argument AGAINST long sentences for non-violent crimes, particularly for young people. Someone who went to prison for 10+ years when they were a teenager will likely have somewhat mixed feelings upon being released.

It also argues very strongly for rehabilitation programs to help those who have been imprisoned gain pertinent skills (life, job, education) to help them avoid re-offending.

Of course, if society did a better job of providing pertinent life skills including education and job training, as well as addiction recovery, there would be less crime in the first place.

Life was never, ever like an episode of Andy Griffith or Mayberry RFD. Or Happy Days or Laverne and Shirley.
You forgot that we need to make prison life harder, because it is a Utopian paradise with free room and board, internet access, and sodomy. People aren't committing crimes in Louisiana just for the fun of it... it is for that Prison Paradiso experience.
Many states charge inmates. Pay to stay is common. There is a lady in Connecticut that owes $87,000 for 2 1/2 year sentence.
 
I would note that Louisiana is a slave labor state. I volunteer for an anti-slavery organization here in the US, and there was a strong effort to outlaw the practice by ballot measure in November. But the "lawful imprisonment exception" had been written back into the measure as a pragmatic compromise before Article 7 even came before voters, and they overwhelmingly rejected the measure anyway: less than forty percent of voters said yea to even the very compromised version of the bill.

So prisons in the state have every reason to try and find excuses for prolonged sentences, if they care at all, and indeed I agree with the DOJ that simple indifference is a major factor here. But it's easy to be indifferent when indifference is profitable and your victims are voiceless.
 
According to this article: https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees

every state except Hawaii charges inmates per day for the time they are incarcerated, at rates that vary from $20 to $80/day.
“A person can be charged $20 to $80 a day for their incarceration,” said author Brittany Friedman, an assistant professor of sociology and a faculty affiliate of Rutgers' criminal justice program. “That per diem rate can lead to hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees when a person gets out of prison. To recoup fees, states use civil means such as lawsuits and wage garnishment against currently and formerly incarcerated people, and regularly use administrative means such as seizing employment pensions, tax refunds and public benefits to satisfy the debt.”

Friedman says states require incarcerated people to declare their assets upon arrival to the prison and actively examine their inmate accounts to uncover any assets. People with pensions, savings accounts or regular deposits to their inmate accounts by friends and family members are at risk of suit.
Given the barriers to employment and housing faced by many/most formerly incarcerated persons, it is a miracle that anyone ever manages not to re-offend. Never mind institutionalization.
 
I would note that Louisiana is a slave labor state. I volunteer for an anti-slavery organization here in the US, and there was a strong effort to outlaw the practice by ballot measure in November. But the "lawful imprisonment exception" had been written back into the measure as a pragmatic compromise before Article 7 even came before voters, and they overwhelmingly rejected the measure anyway: less than forty percent of voters said yea to even the very compromised version of the bill.

So prisons in the state have every reason to try and find excuses for prolonged sentences, if they care at all, and indeed I agree with the DOJ that simple indifference is a major factor here. But it's easy to be indifferent when indifference is profitable and your victims are voiceless.

I wish I could disagree with your post here, but I can't.

Like I said to Toni upthread, our prison system is a disgrace. There's no legitimate reason for the crap that goes on. It should be about rehabilitation and reducing recidivism.
Tom
 
every state except Hawaii charges inmates per day for the time they are incarcerated, at rates that vary from $20 to $80/day
They have to, just to keep the lights on. We incarcerate more than .07% of our national population at any one time, and that number which has been climbing over the last decade... despite many states overtly trying to reduce sentences and expand bail and probation. Government funding alone cannot feed, house, and medicate 2 million people on a permanent basis on the skinflint budgets prisons are actually given. We will almost certainly see the expected "contribution" prisoners are billed multiply in scale over the next few years, as prison budgets continue to shrink and prison population continues to explode. Half of our government tries to use mass imprisonment as a solution to nearly every social ill imaginable, and the other Party "looks the other way" far more often than they try to confront prison reform directly. Whether pro or anti, prison reform is not, and has never been, a winning issue with voters. People don't like to vote about things they'd prefer not to think about, and they are quick to shoot the messenger.

I note that charging prisoners for their "hotel stay" is not a very efficient way to pay the bills; very few prisoners are actually capable of paying their obligation away, and most states don't actively pursue them as it would cost more to do so than they would get in return. But they will place a lien that allows them to claim "back" their money should a former prisoner come into any sort of financial success later down the line. Some ex-inmates don't so much as realize the lien (or even the bill) is there until the government recovers their share from, say, the payout from a later lawsuit, or state lottery win. One of the many quiet ways we encourage recidivism through policy. This sort of thing happens often enough to offset the leaking of prison budgets to some degree, even if the expected rate of repayment is tiny.
 
You may not be aware of this, but pretty much the defining feature of prison is that the inmates don't have any choice whatsoever about when they're going to be released.
Why do you think I'm unaware of this?

You might not be aware of this, but lots of people prefer a predictable life where someone else handles the decisions and pays.

I'm not one, neither are you or Jimmy I'm sure. Nobody on this forum is.

But they're out there. I've known some in my long and checkered past. I'm confident it has a good deal to do with recidivism. People who have been controlled for months or years find the real world overwhelming.
Tom
I'm aware that many people who have been in prison long term are happier behind bars; But that's completely irrelevant to the OP, because prisoners don't get to choose

There's no suggestion whatsoever that the people who are not released on time are staying in prison because they choose to do so, and that would be an extraordinary thing for any prison system to offer.

The OP is about people being imprisoned beyond their release date. Even if some of them are secretly glad about it, their opinions aren't the reason for it, and it's still a massive violation of their rights.
 
You may not be aware of this, but pretty much the defining feature of prison is that the inmates don't have any choice whatsoever about when they're going to be released.
Why do you think I'm unaware of this?

You might not be aware of this, but lots of people prefer a predictable life where someone else handles the decisions and pays.

I'm not one, neither are you or Jimmy I'm sure. Nobody on this forum is.

But they're out there. I've known some in my long and checkered past. I'm confident it has a good deal to do with recidivism. People who have been controlled for months or years find the real world overwhelming.
Tom
I'm aware that many people who have been in prison long term are happier behind bars; But that's completely irrelevant to the OP, because prisoners don't get to choose

There's no suggestion whatsoever that the people who are not released on time are staying in prison because they choose to do so, and that would be an extraordinary thing for any prison system to offer.

The OP is about people being imprisoned beyond their release date. Even if some of them are secretly glad about it, their opinions aren't the reason for it, and it's still a massive violation of their rights.
I don't think that very many prisoners are happier behind bars. I think that some feel safer. Some feel safer because active threats against their life are more serious outside of prison than inside of prison. Some, especially those who have been incarcerated for long periods of time, may feel...safer because prison is familiar. The devil you know is often seen as more palatable than the one you do not know. For some, they know how to do prison. There's no way to fuck that up. Being free (or rather, 'free' because depending on the state, the formerly incarcerated face a lot of heavy burdens from difficulty in obtaining employment to prohibitions from voting, difficulty obtaining housing, and more.) is not free, nor is it without risk. Free, one has the potential to fail: to not get a job that will pay rent; to always be stuck in debt and behind in bail; of never establishing healthy ties with family members. People keep paying their entire lives.
 
I don't think that very many prisoners are happier behind bars.

And even in benighted Louisiana about 3/4 book out the day they are able.

The complicated question is "What about the rest?" Are they being held against their will or have they no better options on the outside? Those are very different issues.
I don't claim to have an informed opinion. But I do know that lots of people get out and then go back in very quickly.

To me, that's the really big problem. I don't claim to have any understanding of that, much less answers or suggestions.
Tom
 
every state except Hawaii charges inmates per day for the time they are incarcerated, at rates that vary from $20 to $80/day
They have to, just to keep the lights on. We incarcerate more than .07% of our national population at any one time, and that number which has been climbing over the last decade... despite many states overtly trying to reduce sentences and expand bail and probation. Government funding alone cannot feed, house, and medicate 2 million people on a permanent basis on the skinflint budgets prisons are actually given. We will almost certainly see the expected "contribution" prisoners are billed multiply in scale over the next few years, as prison budgets continue to shrink and prison population continues to explode. Half of our government tries to use mass imprisonment as a solution to nearly every social ill imaginable, and the other Party "looks the other way" far more often than they try to confront prison reform directly. Whether pro or anti, prison reform is not, and has never been, a winning issue with voters. People don't like to vote about things they'd prefer not to think about, and they are quick to shoot the messenger.

I note that charging prisoners for their "hotel stay" is not a very efficient way to pay the bills; very few prisoners are actually capable of paying their obligation away, and most states don't actively pursue them as it would cost more to do so than they would get in return. But they will place a lien that allows them to claim "back" their money should a former prisoner come into any sort of financial success later down the line. Some ex-inmates don't so much as realize the lien (or even the bill) is there until the government recovers their share from, say, the payout from a later lawsuit, or state lottery win. One of the many quiet ways we encourage recidivism through policy. This sort of thing happens often enough to offset the leaking of prison budgets to some degree, even if the expected rate of repayment is tiny.
The lady in Connecticut inherited her mother's house. She may have to sell it to pay the debt.
 
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