CA Reparations Task Force

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem was banks were made to write enough loans to blacks regardless of whether there were enough qualified black borrowers.

I cannot imagine why you believe that.

We're talking bankers here. The kind of folks who can buy and sell U.S. senators. The kind who got the government to bail out their asses with semi trucks full of $100 bills.

The idea that the government forced them into bankruptcy by the Bush administration's Woke policies is way out there in conspiracy theory land.
Tom

You're not addressing my point at all.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No one has so much as suggested taking money from non-Blacks, as far as I know. Nor would such a proposal succeed. I'm perfectly fine with my state making good on its debts, even if that requires drawing from the tax pool. We tax heavily in this state compared to many others, exactly because that's how you fund a functional government, and we prefer things that way. We have as an electorate many times over okayed large expenditures on social investment, and it has made us a prosperous and powerful force within the union. The local yokels keep putting skeezy ballot measures and recall efforts on the docket, just so we can affirm once again, if anyone still needed to know, that Californians still are and always will be willing take care of our own, all of our own, to the best of our ability. The people of this state are much better than our corrupt leadership in that regard.

Giving money to blacks is the same thing as taking money from non-blacks.

 

[Politesse]

No one has so much as suggested taking money from non-Blacks, as far as I know. Nor would such a proposal succeed. I'm perfectly fine with my state making good on its debts, even if that requires drawing from the tax pool. We tax heavily in this state compared to many others, exactly because that's how you fund a functional government, and we prefer things that way. We have as an electorate many times over okayed large expenditures on social investment, and it has made us a prosperous and powerful force within the union. The local yokels keep putting skeezy ballot measures and recall efforts on the docket, just so we can affirm once again, if anyone still needed to know, that Californians still are and always will be willing take care of our own, all of our own, to the best of our ability. The people of this state are much better than our corrupt leadership in that regard.

Giving money to blacks is the same thing as taking money from non-blacks.

No, it really isn't. If I steal ten dollars from you and the law man makes me give it back, that isn't "the government taking money from non-idiots", that's just you getting the money back that never should have been stolen from you in the first place. It's your money to begin with, I have no right to it just because I took it.

 

[TomC]

No, it really isn't. If I steal ten dollars from you and the law man makes me give it back, that isn't "the government taking money from non-idiots", that's just you getting the money back that never should have been stolen from you in the first place.

But that's not what we're talking about.
If the law man takes ten dollars from you and gives it to someone else because they're Irish or Black or Trans or something, that's the law man stealing from you.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

No, it really isn't. If I steal ten dollars from you and the law man makes me give it back, that isn't "the government taking money from non-idiots", that's just you getting the money back that never should have been stolen from you in the first place.

But that's not what we're talking about.
If the law man takes ten dollars from you and gives it to someone else because they're Irish or Black or Trans or something, that's the law man stealing from you.
Tom

But the people in question aren't being given money because they're "Irish or Black or Trans or something." They are being compensated for discriminatory injury that has already occurred. That they are all Black is a reflection of why the policies under review were targeting them in the first place, but even if one or either of these recommendations were excepted, it would take more than a skin color to qualify for compensation.

 

[Politesse]

When a government screws over its citizens, it has to recompense them for those damages.

You'd rather California Blacks take matters into their own hands, then? Some organizations did try this approach for a while, but it ended very badly.

 

[TomC]

But the people in question aren't being given money because they're "Irish or Black or Trans or something." They are being compensated for discriminatory injury that has already occurred.

Sorry, I read the OP.

So
"Max Fennell who said that every person should get $350,000 in compensation to close the racial wealth gap and Black-owned businesses should receive $250,000, which would help them to flourish. Fennell added: 'It's a debt that's owed, we worked for free,' he said. 'We're not asking; we're telling you. The tangibles of what I'm asking for is $350,000 per black American in California that's tangible, small business grant $250,000 and land 15-20 acres.' "

Fennell is an idiot, who doesn't speak for anyone? Why is this even a question?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

No, it really isn't. If I steal ten dollars from you and the law man makes me give it back, that isn't "the government taking money from non-idiots", that's just you getting the money back that never should have been stolen from you in the first place.

But that's not what we're talking about.
If the law man takes ten dollars from you and gives it to someone else because they're Irish or Black or Trans or something, that's the law man stealing from you.
Tom

But the people in question aren't being given money because they're "Irish or Black or Trans or something." They are being compensated for discriminatory injury that has already occurred. That they are all Black is a reflection of why the policies under review were targeting them in the first place, but even if one or either of these recommendations were excepted, it would take more than a skin color to qualify for compensation.

There is income redistribution and takings all the time. For example, Californians get subsidized water. I don't here any outrage over that, and it is been going on for decades. Hell, they are talking about stealing water from the Midwest.

But if someone says "lets study reparations for slavery", you'd think someone was advocating forced cannabilism. If my recollection is correct, the last time there was reparations for slavery, the British government compensated slave owners for their loss.

 

[TomC]

There is income redistribution and takings all the time. For example, Californians get subsidized water. I don't here any outrage over that, and it is been going on for decades. Hell, they are talking about stealing water from the Midwest.

I don't see the racist part there.

What I'm seeing here is institutional racism.
Tom

 

[Oleg]

You'd rather California Blacks take matters into their own hands, then? Some organizations did try this approach for a while, but it ended very badly.

Everyone should oppose government imposing a racial caste system.

 

[laughing dog]

You'd rather California Blacks take matters into their own hands, then? Some organizations did try this approach for a while, but it ended very badly.

Everyone should oppose government imposing a racial caste system.

No one is imposing a racial caste system, so what prompted that straw man?

 

[laughing dog]

There is income redistribution and takings all the time. For example, Californians get subsidized water. I don't here any outrage over that, and it is been going on for decades. Hell, they are talking about stealing water from the Midwest.

I don't see the racist part there.

That's because no one said it was racist. It is an example of one group subsidizing ( or being taken from) another in our federal system. It happens all of the time.

But why are conservatives having meltdowns over a commission that is supposed to come up with recommendations for the state of California? I can understand how specific recommendations would upset someone, but this commission has not even finished it study, let alone made any recommendations. And yet we are seeing in this thread, alarms and complaints over imaginary outcomes.

 

[Oleg]

You'd rather California Blacks take matters into their own hands, then? Some organizations did try this approach for a while, but it ended very badly.

Everyone should oppose government imposing a racial caste system.

No one is imposing a racial caste system, so what prompted that straw man?

A system that provides advantage and imposes disadvantages based on race is a caste system.

 

[TomC]

That's because no one said it was racist. It is an example of one group subsidizing ( or being taken from) another in our federal system. It happens all of the time.

Which is why it's utterly irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
Which is extremely racist.
Tom

 

[Oleg]

That's because no one said it was racist. It is an example of one group subsidizing ( or being taken from) another in our federal system. It happens all of the time.

Which is why atheist objections to tax dollars spent on religion are incoherent. They’re just subsidizing another group.

 

[laughing dog]

That's because no one said it was racist. It is an example of one group subsidizing ( or being taken from) another in our federal system. It happens all of the time.

Which is why it's utterly irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

I completely understand that you don't get it.

 

[laughing dog]

You'd rather California Blacks take matters into their own hands, then? Some organizations did try this approach for a while, but it ended very badly.

Everyone should oppose government imposing a racial caste system.

No one is imposing a racial caste system, so what prompted that straw man?

A system that provides advantage and imposes disadvantages based on race is a caste system.

Again, no one is imposing a racial caste system because there are no reparations.

 

[TomC]

That's because no one said it was racist. It is an example of one group subsidizing ( or being taken from) another in our federal system. It happens all of the time.

Which is why it's utterly irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

I completely understand that you don't get it.

So explain.
Californians are getting subsidized water. Nothing to do with race.

I'm still not fond of the concept, why are Californian people getting water subsidized by people in other states?

The OP is about Californians getting money based on race. That's institutional racism. It was 100 years ago and it still is today.

What's that got to do with water?
Tom

 

[Politesse]

There is no debt as such.

Bullshit. You steal, you owe.

Your attachment to group culpability isn't something I share. If I didn't steal anything, I don't owe anything.
If a government prior to my existence did something wrong, that's not on me.
Tom

Which is why it is the government, not you, who is now on the hook.

 

[Politesse]

What I resent is the premise that people should get cash payouts due to their race, and only due to their race.
Tom

A non-existent problem.