Protests erupt in France over Macron’s retirement age push

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Article:

PARIS (AP) — Angry protesters took over the streets in Paris on Friday, trying to pressure lawmakers to bring down French President Emmanuel Macron’s government and doom the unpopular retirement age increase he’s trying to impose without a vote in the National Assembly.

A day after Prime Minister Elisabeth Borne invoked a special constitutional power to skirt a vote in the chaotic lower chamber, lawmakers on the right and left filed no-confidence motions that are expected to be voted on early next week.

Crowds gathered throughout the day Friday, halting cars along a Paris ring road and blocking university campuses. Sanitation workers extended their 12-day strike, leaving piles of foul-smelling rubbish across the capital and blockading Europe’s largest incineration site.

Leaders of the influential leftist CGT union have called on people to leave schools, factories, refineries and other workplaces to force Macron to abandon his plan to make the French to work two more years, until 64, before receiving a full pension.

A protest is great, so is a no confidence vote. Someone still has to solve the economic problem, but it would appear that people would rather pay more than shift the retirement age...and they feel so strongly about it, they are out in the streets.

It makes me wonder why aren't people mass protesting in the US whenever GOP tries funny business like this with SS? Or more broadly, we had the Jan 6th coup attempt, but we don't seem to be very organized with economic citizen reaction and demonstrations. What's up with that?

 

[Jarhyn]

Article:

PARIS (AP) — Angry protesters took over the streets in Paris on Friday, trying to pressure lawmakers to bring down French President Emmanuel Macron’s government and doom the unpopular retirement age increase he’s trying to impose without a vote in the National Assembly.

A day after Prime Minister Elisabeth Borne invoked a special constitutional power to skirt a vote in the chaotic lower chamber, lawmakers on the right and left filed no-confidence motions that are expected to be voted on early next week.

Crowds gathered throughout the day Friday, halting cars along a Paris ring road and blocking university campuses. Sanitation workers extended their 12-day strike, leaving piles of foul-smelling rubbish across the capital and blockading Europe’s largest incineration site.

Leaders of the influential leftist CGT union have called on people to leave schools, factories, refineries and other workplaces to force Macron to abandon his plan to make the French to work two more years, until 64, before receiving a full pension.

A protest is great, so is a no confidence vote. Someone still has to solve the economic problem, but it would appear that people would rather pay more than shift the retirement age...and they feel so strongly about it, they are out in the streets.

It makes me wonder why aren't people mass protesting in the US whenever GOP tries funny business like this with SS? Or more broadly, we had the Jan 6th coup attempt, but we don't seem to be very organized with economic citizen reaction and demonstrations. What's up with that?

A police state with a history of using bullshit to violently disrupt progressive efforts for decades?

 

[Gospel]

Protesting is a crime in America. We're just to sissy to put it on paper.

 

[Jayjay]

The french are shooting themselves in the foot with their intransigence about retirement age, but it's their economy and they're the ones who'll pay the price. Only thing I worry is that Macron might get kicked out because of this bullshit and replaced with some Putinist puppet from left or right wings.

The best way to handle retirement age would be to tie it with life expectancy, so that it gets raised automatically without requiring political decisions.

 

[laughing dog]

Article:

PARIS (AP) — Angry protesters took over the streets in Paris on Friday, trying to pressure lawmakers to bring down French President Emmanuel Macron’s government and doom the unpopular retirement age increase he’s trying to impose without a vote in the National Assembly.

A day after Prime Minister Elisabeth Borne invoked a special constitutional power to skirt a vote in the chaotic lower chamber, lawmakers on the right and left filed no-confidence motions that are expected to be voted on early next week.

Crowds gathered throughout the day Friday, halting cars along a Paris ring road and blocking university campuses. Sanitation workers extended their 12-day strike, leaving piles of foul-smelling rubbish across the capital and blockading Europe’s largest incineration site.

Leaders of the influential leftist CGT union have called on people to leave schools, factories, refineries and other workplaces to force Macron to abandon his plan to make the French to work two more years, until 64, before receiving a full pension.

A protest is great, so is a no confidence vote. Someone still has to solve the economic problem, but it would appear that people would rather pay more than shift the retirement age...and they feel so strongly about it, they are out in the streets.

It makes me wonder why aren't people mass protesting in the US whenever GOP tries funny business like this with SS? Or more broadly, we had the Jan 6th coup attempt, but we don't seem to be very organized with economic citizen reaction and demonstrations. What's up with that?

The French have a long history of a much different cultural view of the appropriate work-life balance.

 

[jonatha]

The best way to handle retirement age would be to tie it with life expectancy, so that it gets raised automatically without requiring political decisions.

I agree but it's not going to make a huge difference.

Average Remaining Life Expectancy for Those Surviving to Age 65 in 1940: 12.7 years (M) 14.7 years (F).

In 1990: 15.3 and 19.6, respectively.

Social Security History

 

[Jayjay]

The best way to handle retirement age would be to tie it with life expectancy, so that it gets raised automatically without requiring political decisions.

I agree but it's not going to make a huge difference.

Average Remaining Life Expectancy for Those Surviving to Age 65 in 1940: 12.7 years (M) 14.7 years (F).

In 1990: 15.3 and 19.6, respectively.

Social Security History

I think the pace is going to accelerate in the 21st century.

 

[bilby]

The problem is that politicians and civil servants find it difficult to imagine that one might not be able to work until an arbitrary age, barring illness or injury.

But the fact is that while pushing papers around a desk is their concept of "work", many people are doing jobs that you simply cannot continue to do into your sixties.

And for those people, raising the retirement age gives them a cruel choice of continuing to do work they're physically incapable of doing, until the inevitable injury grants them the right to an invalid pension (or the release of death); or to stop working, and starve for lack of any income.

Perhaps a lower retirement age for blue-collar workers would help.

Or maybe Macron could take over as a sanitation worker, lifting heavy garbage cans for eight hours a day, six days a week. After all, he's only 45 years old, so it should be a doddle for him if he thinks a 64 year old can do it.

 

[Derec]

A protest is great, so is a no confidence vote.

Define "great"? Peacefully protesting is a right, but in itself it is only a tool, and value neutral as such.
Now, as to the content of the protest, France has long had an unsustainably low retirement age (62), that has not taken into account increases in life expectancy. So I cannot agree with those protesters. They need to grow up and work until they are 64.

Now, violently protesting, like many of these French are doing, is not a right, and it's definitely not "great".

It makes me wonder why aren't people mass protesting in the US whenever GOP tries funny business like this with SS?

They prefer to mass protest/riot when a pipeline was built (2016), or when an armed robber was killed by police (as in 2020). Or when people from North Carolina, Massachusetts or Venezuela get mad about Atlanta building a police training center (2023). Priorities!

Or more broadly, we had the Jan 6th coup attempt, but we don't seem to be very organized with economic citizen reaction and demonstrations. What's up with that?

Calling it a "coup attempt" is an exaggeration. The 2020 insurrection was orders of magnitude more violent, and yet most perps were never prosecuted because of sympathetic DAs.

 

[Derec]

Protesting is a crime in America. We're just to sissy to put it on paper.

Peacefully protesting is not a crime.
Rioting, looting, arson etc. are very different things, and are crimes. Unfortunately, these laws are very unevenly enforced. The book is thrown at January 6th rioters, while most 2020 rioters never got prosecuted.

 

[Derec]

Average Remaining Life Expectancy for Those Surviving to Age 65 in 1940: 12.7 years (M) 14.7 years (F).
In 1990: 15.3 and 19.6, respectively.

Social Security History

Even those numbers would justify raising retirement age by 2 years, as Macron has done.
But, of course, we really need numbers based on 62, not 65, and taken in France, not US.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Why the French are protesting against pension reform

The demonstrators aren't alone. Polls show that 70% of the French are opposed to the plans — and counting.

It comprises general branches for private employees and public servants, and 27 so-called special pension schemes for, for example, ballet dancers or police officers that benefit from an earlier retirement.

I can't find more on these "special pension schemes" but it sounds like those with more demanding jobs are given consideration.

And from 2027 on, people will need to work for 43 years — instead of the current 42 — to receive a full-rate pension.

If you're a blue collar person you're going to be entering the daily grind much sooner than those who have attended university.

"The government only wants to balance its budget, also to offset the impact of tax rebates for companies. They are, bit by bit, dismantling our social model."
"The expert commission does predict a deficit in the coming years, but we could finance that by increasing employers' and employees' charges, which many people would prefer to the reform,"
-Michael Zemmour, an economist at Paris 1 Pantheon-Sorbonne University

"It really comes down to the question of what kind of society we want to live in — one ruled through market-orientated rationality or one which is focused on reducing inequalities."
-Daniele Linhart, a sociologist specializing in work relations and director emeritus at public research institution CNRS.

Priorities? Cultural differences. The more engrained a people are into a market oriented society, the more issues they have with their government. When government and corporations collude at the expense of people's quality of life and are coming at you from every angle, priorities change.
If in the US it's all you can do to put food on the table and keep a roof over your head, retirement is something other people get to worry about. Knowing you're going to be working until you drop, you're hardly worried about the GOPs latest shenanigans with Social Security. You are a broken animal. You protest only when they start killing you.

 

[Elixir]

Sheesh. They already only work like, 5 hours a day, three days a week and get eight months of paid vacation and free healthcare…

 

[TomC]

Sheesh. They already only work like, 5 hours a day, three days a week and get eight months of paid vacation and free healthcare…

And have high rates of unemployment because even other French people don't want to hire them.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Protesting is a crime in America. We're just to sissy to put it on paper.

Peacefully protesting is not a crime.

It certainly can be. Depending on the locale, blocking sidewalks or a roadway, creating a “disturbance” or lacking a permit can get someone arrested.

Rioting, looting, arson etc. are very different things, and are crimes. Unfortunately, these laws are very unevenly enforced. The book is thrown at January 6th rioters, while most 2020 rioters never got prosecuted.

Most Jan 6 rioters did not get prosecuted. Those who were either publicly admitted their participation or were easily identified on film. Finally, insurrection is a more serious crime than rioting.

 

[Elixir]

insurrection is a more serious crime than rioting.

Only if there’s Property Damage. Which is far far worse than murder, especially if the murderer is a RW fanatic or a cop.

 

[laughing dog]

To answer the OP, the French have a long tradition of mass protests . (
 List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France goes back to the middle ages). The Gilles Jaunes in 2019 is but one example. Add in their longstanding view of the appropriate work-life balance, and this is no surprise.

Pension "reform" has been a discussion in the public precedes President Macron. The current funding mechanism is unsustainable. Some combination of reforms (funding or eligibility) will have to occur at some point.

Right now, Macron does not have a legislative majority with his party. If the other rightist parties (who have also tried to raise the retirement age in the past) actually committed to this "reform", it would pass through the regular democratic process. Apparently, these deputies either will not commit or President Macron does not trust them, so he is trying to ram this through a constitutional loophole.

It is unfortunate that the French cannot garner a consensus for a sustainable and reasonable reform.

 

[robnisch]

35-hour workweek - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you average for a year with vacation it is more like 26 hours.

ETA: They just don't need or want to work as much as we in the US do.

 

[Toni]

A protest is great, so is a no confidence vote.

Define "great"? Peacefully protesting is a right, but in itself it is only a tool, and value neutral as such.
Now, as to the content of the protest, France has long had an unsustainably low retirement age (62), that has not taken into account increases in life expectancy. So I cannot agree with those protesters. They need to grow up and work until they are 64.

Now, violently protesting, like many of these French are doing, is not a right, and it's definitely not "great".

It makes me wonder why aren't people mass protesting in the US whenever GOP tries funny business like this with SS?

They prefer to mass protest/riot when a pipeline was built (2016), or when an armed robber was killed by police (as in 2020). Or when people from North Carolina, Massachusetts or Venezuela get mad about Atlanta building a police training center (2023). Priorities!

Or more broadly, we had the Jan 6th coup attempt, but we don't seem to be very organized with economic citizen reaction and demonstrations. What's up with that?

Calling it a "coup attempt" is an exaggeration. The 2020 insurrection was orders of magnitude more violent, and yet most perps were never prosecuted because of sympathetic DAs.

Calling January 6 a coup attempt is accurate. The fact that it was not effective is mostly because it was unexpected abd even unimaginable to most Americans and it lacked organization.

 

[Elixir]

Calling January 6 a coup attempt is accurate. The fact that it was not effective is mostly because it was unexpected abd even unimaginable to most Americans and it lacked organization.

Despite that, it came down to Pence overruling the USSS who tried to remove him from the premises, as Trump had instructed.
If not for that, we would right now be in the clutches of Hair Furor.
I wouldn’t trust Mikey to watch my dog for three minutes, but had to rely on him to prevent the coup from succeeding.
Calling it an insurrection hits a mark about halfway between “it was peaceful tourists” and what actually happened.