Protests erupt in France over Macron’s retirement age push

[Toni]

Even if Pence had taken the more cowardly course and done as Trump demanded, I don’t believe for one second that the armed forces or the duly elected Senators and the Congressmen would have allowed the election results to have been overthrown. I think it would have been a protracted and bloody battle, but ultimately, democracy would have prevailed.

 

[Elixir]

I don’t believe for one second that the armed forces or the duly elected Senators and the Congressmen would have allowed the election results to have been overthrown.

The election would not have been certified, and there are constitutional provisions for that event. One State, one vote, Republicans would have won. At what point and in what way do you think the military (still under Trump's Command) would have "gone rogue"? What power do you imagine congresscritters had, and what will to exercise it? (IIRC the new Congress had just been seated, with a Republican majority overall - I'm betting not one of them would have broken ranks, even if doing so would have made any difference.)

I think it would have been a protracted and bloody battle, but ultimately, democracy would have prevailed.

I think it would have been over by the early hours of 1/7. If people objected they would have been shot.
It mystifies me that you are not even taking seriously how close we came to living in Trumpistan.

 

[Derec]

If not for that, we would right now be in the clutches of Hair Furor.

In the clutches of "an outbreak of public anger or excitement" over hair? Uh? That makes no sense.

Calling it an insurrection hits a mark about halfway between “it was peaceful tourists” and what actually happened.

What actually happened is somewhere between "peaceful tourists" and "insurrection".

Antifa/BLM actually managed to occupy territory and hold it for three weeks in Seattle, proclaiming "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" aka the New Seattle Soviet Republic. That is much closer to being an actual insurrection. Especially since the occupiers were - unlike the 1/6 rioters - heavily armed.

And yet, to my knowledge, not one of the Seattle insurrectionists was prosecuted either by King County or by the partisan hack Merrick Garland. Not even their leader, Warlord Raz Simone.

 

[Derec]

Calling January 6 a coup attempt is accurate. The fact that it was not effective is mostly because it was unexpected abd even unimaginable to most Americans and it lacked organization.

Organization and intent are necessary for it to qualify as a coup attempt though. I think most of the people at the Capitol were swept up in the excitement and just trespassed in the Capitol building. They nevertheless got the book thrown at them. On the other hand, people who actually occupied several blocks of a major US city for weeks get a pass just because they are leftist insurrectionists. Even though they had both organization and intent, not to mention being - unlike the 1/6 idiots - heavily armed.

 

[Derec]

so he is trying to ram this through a constitutional loophole.

Kinda like Biden has been trying to do with several things, most notably the student loan forgiveness. Other things too though. Like the eviction moratorium that even he admitted he likely had no legal power to do.

It is unfortunate that the French cannot garner a consensus for a sustainable and reasonable reform.

One of the few times I actually agree with you.

 

[Bomb#20]

It is unfortunate that the French cannot garner a consensus for a sustainable and reasonable reform.

One of the few times I actually agree with you.

One of my relatives used to be mayor of a small city. The single most consistent lesson his experience in office teaches is that trying to make the numbers work out is a thankless task.

 

[ZiprHead]

Admin hat on:

The subject of this thread is French protests over raising the retirement age. Not J6, BLM, etc. Those are derails and need to stop.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Admin hat on:

The subject of this thread is French protests over raising the retirement age. Not J6, BLM, etc. Those are derails and need to stop.

Step into the thread and first post I see is about January 6th. Then I was wondering if I clicked the right post.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The french are shooting themselves in the foot with their intransigence about retirement age, but it's their economy and they're the ones who'll pay the price. Only thing I worry is that Macron might get kicked out because of this bullshit and replaced with some Putinist puppet from left or right wings.

The best way to handle retirement age would be to tie it with life expectancy, so that it gets raised automatically without requiring political decisions.

Life expectancy? 72 is still too old to have to work, regardless if you live to 85 or 95.

 

[ZiprHead]

Admin hat on:

The subject of this thread is French protests over raising the retirement age. Not J6, BLM, etc. Those are derails and need to stop.

Step into the thread and first post I see is about January 6th. Then I was wondering if I clicked the right post.

I'm assuming Elixir responded before seeing the warning. I've done it myself.

 

[Elixir]

Admin hat on:

The subject of this thread is French protests over raising the retirement age. Not J6, BLM, etc. Those are derails and need to stop.

Step into the thread and first post I see is about January 6th. Then I was wondering if I clicked the right post.

I'm assuming Elixir responded before seeing the warning. I've done it myself.

Response deleted, moved to new thread and apologies.

I worked (somewhat happily) until 69 y/o, and a little beyond. I’d probably still be working if I had not been revulsed by having to serve Trump’s CBP and ICE.
French need to man up and face the 21st century. A little hard work and long hours won't kill you.

 

[TomC]

French need to man up and face the 21st century. A little hard work and long hours won't kill you.

Or maybe Americans need to recognize that they don't really need all that stuff they buy. Stop being led by the advertising agencies. Spend more time playing with your kids, indulging in a hobby, getting better educated, wandering the countryside, ...
Tom

ETA ~"working for a cause", I wish I'd included that in my list.~

 

[Elixir]

French need to man up and face the 21st century. A little hard work and long hours won't kill you.

Or maybe Americans need to recognize that they don't really need all that stuff they buy. Stop being led by the advertising agencies. Spend more time playing with your kids, indulging in a hobby, getting better educated, wandering the countryside, ...
Tom

I could have stopped working earlier, but actually felt like I was doing something for myself, my family, my country and a lot of people who were in dire straits. When that feeling went away, I stopped working. Anyone who feels they can no longer contribute because they're 62, has taken even worse care of themselves (and/or been far more unlucky) than I.

 

[Jayjay]

The french are shooting themselves in the foot with their intransigence about retirement age, but it's their economy and they're the ones who'll pay the price. Only thing I worry is that Macron might get kicked out because of this bullshit and replaced with some Putinist puppet from left or right wings.

The best way to handle retirement age would be to tie it with life expectancy, so that it gets raised automatically without requiring political decisions.

Life expectancy? 72 is still too old to have to work, regardless if you live to 85 or 95.

That's what one could've said about 62 or even 52 if you go back far enough. And tying retirement age to life expectancy doesn't mean year-per-year correspondence. It could mean for example that for every two-month increase in average life expectancy, retirement age is raised by one month. So people still get to enjoy longer retirements.

 

[Jarhyn]

Admin hat on:

The subject of this thread is French protests over raising the retirement age. Not J6, BLM, etc. Those are derails and need to stop.

Step into the thread and first post I see is about January 6th. Then I was wondering if I clicked the right post.

I'm assuming Elixir responded before seeing the warning. I've done it myself.

Response deleted, moved to new thread and apologies.

I worked (somewhat happily) until 69 y/o, and a little beyond. I’d probably still be working if I had not been revulsed by having to serve Trump’s CBP and ICE.
French need to man up and face the 21st century. A little hard work and long hours won't kill you.

I will say that not everyone can work that late in life. I'm middle aged at this point, and I will recognize that I seek to work meaningfully until I cannot, or others will not let me, whichever comes first.

Still, when it comes to actually doing that work, I do it slowly, methodically, and iteratively. It will be done once badly, then not so badly, and repeated until I reach a level of proficiency that is approaching elegance, but or which indicates a straight path clear to it from where I'm at.

Usually there are 3-4 things I'm doing at any one time around this model of behavior.

At some point, I expect my mind will go, and because I was young when I saw my grandad get Alzheimer's disease, I've spent the whole time from then until now applying "reality checks" and remembering to ask myself if I could be in a last memory making life hard for my loved ones and treating others badly. It's... I'll admit it has its own cost, but I would rather pay this cost than be an asshole to my loved ones, incapable of accepting it's my reality because I had lived a life expecting it would never be.

There are a few "bad ends" I posture against in similar ways.

When it happens, I need a legal structure to exist that provides places for people who are starting to fall apart and become unable to pursue their professions, and I accept that it happens to many far earlier than "retirement age" in many parts of the world.

Statistically, I think I'm due to gain 5 years on most folks as far as cancer goes, and my blood pressure is great, and always has been.

Still, I'm going to get a lot more physically weak over the years, and if something age- or decay-related happens to my mind I'm SOL there.

It's a scary prospect in a lot of ways to lose something I've been working on building up for so long, though, and being in a society that does not accept what I have done as "enough".

 

[Elixir]

I think “enough” isn’t the same thing for everyone. Certainly a person in a position of great responsibility who suffers early onset dementia should not continue in their usual capacity. But they should not retire to a corner, curl up and die (unless that’s what they want to do).
I outgrew or lost the ability to do what I had been doing at least three times over the decades. I’m more physically active now than I have been in years, but certainly don’t have the focus, drive or ability to perform my last job at peak - or even adequate - levels. But there are things I CAN still do, some better than ever.

 

[Jarhyn]

I think “enough” isn’t the same thing for everyone. Certainly a person in a position of great responsibility who suffers early onset dementia should not continue in their usual capacity. But they should not retire to a corner, curl up and die (unless that’s what they want to do).
I outgrew or lost the ability to do what I had been doing at least three times over the decades. I’m more physically active now than I have been in years, but certainly don’t have the focus, drive or ability to perform my last job at peak - or even adequate - levels. But there are things I CAN still do, some better than ever.

If my mind goes dull or cracks with age to the point I cannot contribute anything of worth to society, I would probably curl up and die, yes.

What I call "my mind" in this discussion is the part of me that identifies something I can develop as a skill, builds that until the output of process is what I expected when I started, and then finds something new to do that with.

Currently I'm working on fine tuning a simulation to contain only systems that can be abstracted and de-abstracted very quickly, while also only containing systems which are sustainable indefinitely, even in a chaotic simulation environment.

Mostly because I'm between jobs, and trying to get into HVAC FW/SW

 

[Jayjay]

Macron's government won the vote of confidence, but protestors vow to continue.

 

[Derec]

Life expectancy? 72 is still too old to have to work, regardless if you live to 85 or 95.

Life expectancy at retirement age is about how long benefits have to be paid, on average. As life expectancy increases, the government has to pay retirees their benefits longer. So your choices are either increase funding, or reduce benefits. If reducing benefits, either increase the age at which one starts drawing benefits or cut the amount paid every month. There are not that many distinct ways to address a funding crisis of a retirement system, and contrary to what many on the Left fervently believe, there is no such thing as a magic money tree.

 

[bilby]

French need to man up and face the 21st century. A little hard work and long hours won't kill you.

If you work in an office, probably not.

If you're working in a mine, it certainly can, and does.