The hush money indictment

[Shadowy Man]

Exactly. If the Republicans can be fine with what Clinton did and not make a big deal out of it and his fitness for office, why can't Democrats just drop the issue for Trump? Sheesh...

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If only everyone believed that.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, Trump is a rich white guy being prosecuted by an uppity black “liberal” DA .

Why are you leftists always so obsessed with race?
This would be no different had the DA been named Garcon, Boudin, Krasner or Schmidt.
At the same time, the Georgia case is much more solid, and the Fulton DA is a black woman.

Add in he got some nooky from a porn star and he becomes a hero to a certain sector of society.

It's deja vu all over again (Clinton with Monica in the Oral Office).

Monica was during Presidency, Stormy was before presidency. No one voted for Clinton after Lewinsky came out.

Really ruined Clinton's chance at a third term, didn't it?

 

[Derec]

Fuck no! He can’t even face the fact that Trump is charged with CLASS 1 felony falsifications of records. Bragg didn’t “make it” a felony, it was a felony when Trump allegedly did it.

Falsifying business records is normally a misdemeanor. I am not a lawyer, and I take it, neither are you.
But legal commentators (who tend to dislike Trump btw) seem to agree that Bragg did a lot of legal gymnastics to turn what is normally a misdemeanor into a felony.
Now, if Bragg were some prosecutor who is known for going for highest possible charge across the board, that would be one thing. Except, he prefers charging crimes that are normally felonies as misdemeanors.

Soft-on-crime Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg has downgraded more than half his felony cases to misdemeanors — while also managing to lose half of the felony cases that do reach court.
Since taking office on Jan. 1, Bragg has downgraded 52% of felony cases to misdemeanors — compared to 39% in all of 2019. Between 2013 and 2020, under District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr., the percentage of cases the office downgraded had never exceeded 40%, according to data made public by the DA’s office.
When serious felony charges are brought, Bragg’s office wins a conviction just 51% of the time — down from 68% in 2019, the last year before the pandemic disrupted the court system.
[...]
A short time later, career criminal William Rolon was busted for threatening a store worker with a knife and charged only with a misdemeanor, leading a judge to stunningly tell him he should “feel lucky” because of Bragg’s new policies.
[...]Bragg was accused of giving a sweetheart plea deal in August to Justin Washington, accused of raping a teen-age relative, only for Washington to be arrested on new sex-crime charges the next month. The DA’s office said he would seek a greater sentence in the rape case.

So what is different? Could it be the politics?

But in the warped little mind of an INAT,

Except for cheap insults, you have nothing.

it can’t be possible that their fascist mascot ever did wrong enough to be busted by some off-color NY lib’rul.

Trump did plenty wrong. Going after him for hush money is bad strategy though.

 

[Derec]

Georgia needs to come to trial sooner than NY.

Fulton County is currently busy with the RICO case against Young Slime Life aka Young Thug et al.
YSL RICO trial | Jury selection enters fourth month, could last through summer: Attorneys
I can't imagine Fulton County being ready to try Trump anytime soon.

 

[Derec]

Yes, what Trump did in NY, in GA and in Washington DC was orders of magnitude worse than ribbing a bodega or a bank, fir that matter.

You leftists love to downplay the seriousness of ribberies[sic] and thefts. "How he gonna get his money" and all that. But they affect regular people far more than misreported hush money.

Trump was attempting to subvert free and fair elections.

In Georgia yes. In NY he merely wanted to hide an affair. How is that worse, much less "orders of magnitude worse" than some thug sticking a gun or a knife in somebody's face and demanding they hand over their hard-earned possessions? Surely you can't be serious!

If we do not have free and fair elections, we do not have a country. If the laws do not apply to everyone, then we have no law.

I do not agree with the premise that "free and fair elections" are nullified if you don't know that a candidate had sex with a porn star and paid her not to babble about it.

 

[Toni]

Yes, what Trump did in NY, in GA and in Washington DC was orders of magnitude worse than ribbing a bodega or a bank, fir that matter.

You leftists love to downplay the seriousness of ribberies[sic] and thefts. "How he gonna get his money" and all that. But they affect regular people far more than misreported hush money.

Trump was attempting to subvert free and fair elections.

In Georgia yes. In NY he merely wanted to hide an affair. How is that worse, much less "orders of magnitude worse" than some thug sticking a gun or a knife in somebody's face and demanding they hand over their hard-earned possessions? Surely you can't be serious!

If we do not have free and fair elections, we do not have a country. If the laws do not apply to everyone, then we have no law.

I do not agree with the premise that "free and fair elections" are nullified if you don't know that a candidate had sex with a porn star and paid her not to babble about it.

Again: nobody gives a rat's ass about what consenting adult Trump had sex with. I doubt even his wife does. That he is a cad and tries to have sex with anyone he finds attractive is well known to all and no surprise to anyone, much less the religious right who comprise the biggest portion of his supporters.

However, paying former sex partners (there are at least two) and a doorman (to keep quiet about an illegitimate child) to keep quiet so as to not harm election prospects --and then fraudulently passing the money through your lawyer in an effort to get around both tax laws and campaign finance laws is a bad bad thing.

If Trump had simply paid the money directly himself or even did not pay anyone off and let the world know what a stud he is sleeping with porn stars and hotel maids, etc. he would not be facing these charges. And it would not have affected his chances at winning his election.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Georgia needs to come to trial sooner than NY.

Fulton County is currently busy with the RICO case against Young Slime Life aka Young Thug et al.
YSL RICO trial | Jury selection enters fourth month, could last through summer: Attorneys
I can't imagine Fulton County being ready to try Trump anytime soon.

LOL. I’m expecting the findings of the special grand jury to be presented to the new session of the conventional grand jury as soon as it’s seated at the beginning of May, and for charges to be brought shortly after. But dream on.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Indeed!

The issue I've had with Daniels and just about all the other crap was Clinton's second term and this insistence that these right-wing voters gave a fuck about "family values".

 

[Derec]

Your incomprehension is not an indicator of my estimation of those crimes' importance.

I comprehend fully. You and other leftists routinely dismiss the importance of property damage, theft, robberies etc.

Bragg's job isn't to argue, Derec.

Of course it is. That's what lawyers do. Make arguments.
Now, a big chunk of his job these days is leadership and administrative. He may outsource the actual "making arguments" part of the job to an ADA. But he is still the boss.

His job is to gather up enough evidence that a consensus of 12 people will re4commend for or against charges,

You still do not understand how grand juries work. You do not need consensus.

then to bring those charges if recommended - as long as he believes there is strong enough evidence for DEPARTMENT LAWYERS to obtain a conviction.

And yet he and his office are derelict in doing this in many much more clear cut cases of violent crime.

Pretty much all the "argument" is going to come from the defense anyhow,

Both the prosecution and defense make arguments in criminal trials.

Bragg is probably aware that Trump is not some robber who knocked over a liquor store or a BLM protester,

He would not be bringing up charges if Trump was any of those people. He likes those people. Set a cop car on fire? Rob a store at knifepoint? No biggie. Hide some hush money? Crime of the fucking century.

The Hill, not known for leftist propaganda - you can read it, I know you can!

I also know better than to take everything prosecutor says without a big box of Morton's. Remember Mike Nifong?

 

[Derec]

No, I said it was misdemeanors that Bragg worked really hard to make into felonies.
Note that when he first took over the office, he didn't want to prosecute actual felonies, to wit most armed robberies, as felonies, and only public pressure led him to abandon that policy.

“Most felonies”? Do you have actual evidence to support

I said "most robberies". It was in his memo when he first came in. He was later pressured into reversing it, but it shows what he really wanted to do.

your attempted smear of a black DA?

Again your obsession with race. Sigh.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Toni]

Your incomprehension is not an indicator of my estimation of those crimes' importance.

I comprehend fully. You and other leftists routinely dismiss the importance of property damage, theft, robberies etc.

Bragg's job isn't to argue, Derec.

Of course it is. That's what lawyers do. Make arguments.
Now, a big chunk of his job these days is leadership and administrative. He may outsource the actual "making arguments" part of the job to an ADA. But he is still the boss.

His job is to gather up enough evidence that a consensus of 12 people will re4commend for or against charges,

You still do not understand how grand juries work. You do not need consensus.

then to bring those charges if recommended - as long as he believes there is strong enough evidence for DEPARTMENT LAWYERS to obtain a conviction.

And yet he and his office are derelict in doing this in many much more clear cut cases of violent crime.

Pretty much all the "argument" is going to come from the defense anyhow,

Both the prosecution and defense make arguments in criminal trials.

Bragg is probably aware that Trump is not some robber who knocked over a liquor store or a BLM protester,

He would not be bringing up charges if Trump was any of those people. He likes those people. Set a cop car on fire? Rob a store at knifepoint? No biggie. Hide some hush money? Crime of the fucking century.

The Hill, not known for leftist propaganda - you can read it, I know you can!

I also know better than to take everything prosecutor says without a big box of Morton's. Remember Mike Nifong?

You realize that Bragg is not the only NYC DA, right? Those other cases are being pursued. More than one case can be investigated, more than one grand jury can sit at any given time within NYC.

Justice does not demand that all the cases that involve people that Derec doesn’t like get taken care of before cases of national importance.

Again: this is NOT about Trump’s sex life. It’s about his criminal actions.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Once the trial gets rolling, I’m going to drive up to Wilmington and try to watch it in person for a day. This could be the biggest thing since OJ. Watching one of these cretins get sliced and diced would be awesome.

 

[Elixir]

Now, a big chunk of his job these days is leadership and administrative.

Lol!
And the rest? Delivering pizza?

Justice does not demand that all the cases that involve people that Derec doesn’t like get taken care of before cases of national importance.

Obviously that depends who you ask.

 

[Ford]

Your incomprehension is not an indicator of my estimation of those crimes' importance.

I comprehend fully. You and other leftists routinely dismiss the importance of property damage, theft, robberies etc.

Bragg's job isn't to argue, Derec.

Of course it is. That's what lawyers do. Make arguments.
Now, a big chunk of his job these days is leadership and administrative. He may outsource the actual "making arguments" part of the job to an ADA. But he is still the boss.

His job is to gather up enough evidence that a consensus of 12 people will re4commend for or against charges,

You still do not understand how grand juries work. You do not need consensus.

then to bring those charges if recommended - as long as he believes there is strong enough evidence for DEPARTMENT LAWYERS to obtain a conviction.

And yet he and his office are derelict in doing this in many much more clear cut cases of violent crime.

Pretty much all the "argument" is going to come from the defense anyhow,

Both the prosecution and defense make arguments in criminal trials.

Bragg is probably aware that Trump is not some robber who knocked over a liquor store or a BLM protester,

He would not be bringing up charges if Trump was any of those people. He likes those people. Set a cop car on fire? Rob a store at knifepoint? No biggie. Hide some hush money? Crime of the fucking century.

The Hill, not known for leftist propaganda - you can read it, I know you can!

I also know better than to take everything prosecutor says without a big box of Morton's. Remember Mike Nifong?

You realize that Bragg is not the only NYC DA, right? Those other cases are being pursued. More than one case can be investigated, more than one grand jury can sit at any given time within NYC.

That has clearly not occurred to an alarmingly large number of people. The idea that the largest city in America has just this one guy working on "crime" is absurd, but that's the narrative that's being peddled by the right.

To hear them tell it, Bragg's just this one overworked bureaucrat in a little office pursuing purse snatchers and other minor scofflaws, but he set aside those duties to go after Trump...ostensibly at the behest of George Soros. While Bragg is "distracted" by this minor case, "thugs" (totally not a dog whistle) will run rampant on the streets of the Big Apple. It is Olympic level mental gymnastics.

 

[Derec]

You realize that Bragg is not the only NYC DA, right?

I know. There are four others, one each for the other four boroughs/counties that comprise NYC: Eric Gonzalez (Brooklyn/Kings), Melinda Katz (Queens), Darcel Clark (The Bronx) and Michael McMahon (Staten Island/Richmond).

Those other cases are being pursued. More than one case can be investigated, more than one grand jury can sit at any given time within NYC.

Well duh. But the DA of each county sets policy about what cases to prosecute and what charges to seek.

Justice does not demand that all the cases that involve people that Derec doesn’t like get taken care of before cases of national importance.

Who said that? You are knocking over straw men.
My point was that Bragg wants to downgrade crimes like armed robberies. And yet he is upgrading in this case, which also happens to be targeting a political enemy. Coincidence? I think not.

One note on your "cases that involve people that Derec doesn’t like". That makes it sound as if it was somehow strange that I do not like people like William Rolon.
Robbery Charge Reduced Under New Manhattan DA's Reform Policies: Sources

Investigators say another armed robbery case in Manhattan has been reduced to a charge of shoplifting by the new Manhattan district attorney.
Investigators say this time it was a suspect who wielded a pocketknife while stealing about $2,000 worth of cold medicine from a Duane Reade along Delancey Street in Lower Manhattan over the weekend. Video from inside the store shows the manager who was allegedly threatened by the suspect.
Police arrested 43-year-old William Rolon, saying it was the second time he hit the store — and his 39th arrest overall. But instead of charging Rolon with robbery, sources said prosecutors dropped the charges to petit larceny – a misdemeanor – even though the manager told police she was terrified.

Do you not think that robbing a store with a knife should be charged as the felony that it is, i.e. armed robbery? And that it should not be downgraded to a "petit larceny", esp. not with him being a repeat offender. By the way, even without the knife and threats this should be grand larceny, not petit larceny since Rolon stole $2k worth of stuff. By the way, he stole cold medicine. Probably containing pseudoephedrine, which means he likely stole it in order to make some meth.

Court transcripts obtained by News reveal the judge overseeing the case questioned the facts of the complaint, saying they appeared to make out a robbery in the first degree. According to the transcripts, the judge went on to confirm with prosecutors that two weeks ago, the case would have been charged as a robbery, but that they have opted to charge the case as a misdemeanor based on the new district attorney’s memorandum

"New district attorney" being none other than Alvin "Chipmunk" Bragg.

Again: this is NOT about Trump’s sex life. It’s about his criminal actions.

These alleged criminal actions revolve around him trying to hide his sex life. It is as silly to pretend that they don't as to pretend that the Clinton case was about perjury, not oral sex.

 

[Derec]

That has clearly not occurred to an alarmingly large number of people.

Everybody here knows that. This is one of the sillier straw men you keep erecting and knocking down.
Nobody has suggested that Manhattan DA's office is just Alvin Bragg by his lonesome in some city hall closet.

The idea that the largest city in America has just this one guy working on "crime" is absurd, but that's the narrative that's being peddled by the right.

Again, nobody is suggesting that, so drop this nonsense.
Alvin Bragg does run the Manhattan DA's office. Thus, what happens is his responsibility.
When we criticize the president for something, we do not envision that he is the only one in all of the executive branch of US government either. But he does run it. Ultimately, it is his responsibility even if the staff is huge. No different than with Bragg.

To hear them tell it, Bragg's just this one overworked bureaucrat in a little office pursuing purse snatchers and other minor scofflaws, but he set aside those duties to go after Trump...

No, he set those aside long before going after Trump for ideological reasons. And for the record, purse snatching involves violence and is thus properly a robbery, a violent felony, and not a minor violation like unpaid parking tickets.
That said, I think I have some Scofflaw Basement IPA in the fridge. Thanks for reminding me.

ostensibly at the behest of George Soros.

Behest or not, he did receive funds from Soros.

It is Olympic level mental gymnastics.

It's the other way around. If strawmanning were an Olympic sport, you'd be a medal contender. And Toni'd be right there with you in the women's competition.

 

[Toni]

You realize that Bragg is not the only NYC DA, right?

I know. There are four others, one each for the other four boroughs/counties that comprise NYC: Eric Gonzalez (Brooklyn/Kings), Melinda Katz (Queens), Darcel Clark (The Bronx) and Michael McMahon (Staten Island/Richmond).

Those other cases are being pursued. More than one case can be investigated, more than one grand jury can sit at any given time within NYC.

Well duh. But the DA of each county sets policy about what cases to prosecute and what charges to seek.

Justice does not demand that all the cases that involve people that Derec doesn’t like get taken care of before cases of national importance.

Who said that? You are knocking over straw men.
My point was that Bragg wants to downgrade crimes like armed robberies. And yet he is upgrading in this case, which also happens to be targeting a political enemy. Coincidence? I think not.

One note on your "cases that involve people that Derec doesn’t like". That makes it sound as if it was somehow strange that I do not like people like William Rolon.
Robbery Charge Reduced Under New Manhattan DA's Reform Policies: Sources

Investigators say another armed robbery case in Manhattan has been reduced to a charge of shoplifting by the new Manhattan district attorney.
Investigators say this time it was a suspect who wielded a pocketknife while stealing about $2,000 worth of cold medicine from a Duane Reade along Delancey Street in Lower Manhattan over the weekend. Video from inside the store shows the manager who was allegedly threatened by the suspect.
Police arrested 43-year-old William Rolon, saying it was the second time he hit the store — and his 39th arrest overall. But instead of charging Rolon with robbery, sources said prosecutors dropped the charges to petit larceny – a misdemeanor – even though the manager told police she was terrified.

Do you not think that robbing a store with a knife should be charged as the felony that it is, i.e. armed robbery? And that it should not be downgraded to a "petit larceny", esp. not with him being a repeat offender. By the way, even without the knife and threats this should be grand larceny, not petit larceny since Rolon stole $2k worth of stuff. By the way, he stole cold medicine. Probably containing pseudoephedrine, which means he likely stole it in order to make some meth.

Court transcripts obtained by News reveal the judge overseeing the case questioned the facts of the complaint, saying they appeared to make out a robbery in the first degree. According to the transcripts, the judge went on to confirm with prosecutors that two weeks ago, the case would have been charged as a robbery, but that they have opted to charge the case as a misdemeanor based on the new district attorney’s memorandum

"New district attorney" being none other than Alvin "Chipmunk" Bragg.

Again: this is NOT about Trump’s sex life. It’s about his criminal actions.

These alleged criminal actions revolve around him trying to hide his sex life. It is as silly to pretend that they don't as to pretend that the Clinton case was about perjury, not oral sex.

No, Derec’s. I realize you have a massive hard on for throwing as many black people in prison as possible but you’re not stupid. You have to realize how massive this case is—and that it’s minor relative to the other charges Trump is likely to face in Georgia and federal charges relating to his actions before and on Jan. 6 2021.

This is absolutely not about Trump’s sex life. Nobody gives a shit about who he fucks. I’m sure Melania is grateful to each and every women who is willing to accommodate him. It’s about the corrupt and illegal dealings that he employs to conceal what he thinks might interfere with his goals.

Trying to subvert elections is a threat to the country every bit as much as crashing planes into the Pentagon.

 

[Derec]

No, Derec’s. I realize you have a massive hard on for throwing as many black people in prison as possible but you’re not stupid.

Who said anything about "black"? You leftists are the ones who keep bringing up race apropos of nothing.
Everybody who commits armed robbery should go to prison. Everybody who steals cars should go to prison. Everybody who knocks a woman down and snatches her purse should go to prison. Regardless of race. I do not have a "massive hard on" for throwing black people in prison. At the same time, nobody should be given a pass because of their race out of some misguided sense of "equity".
The perp in the case I brought up previously isn't even black, fwiw.
Now, I have to ask you: why do you not think that armed robberies and similar crimes should be charged as felonies? Because many guilty of those crimes are black?

You have to realize how massive this case is—

Yes. As big as that office is, it will consume a lot of their resources. Other cases may be delayed or dropped altogether. Not that Bragg would mind one bit. He likes thugs.

and that it’s minor relative to the other charges Trump is likely to face in Georgia and federal charges relating to his actions before and on Jan. 6 2021.

You do realize that the pending federal case is about Mar-a-Lago documents and not about 1/6? And you are right that the Bragg case is the most trivial of the three. And I hope you realize that it relies on some legal gymnastics to charge it as a felony. That from the DA that has a reputation for undercharging.

Trying to subvert elections is a threat to the country every bit as much as crashing planes into the Pentagon.

Misreporting hush money is not "subverting elections". That is blatant hyperbole. Though not nearly as big as comparing it to 9/11. The Islamic terrorist attack on the Pentagon killed 64 people on the plane and 125 on the ground. The total for the entire 9/11 was ~3k dead. So have some fucking decency, please!

 

[Toni]

On what evidence do you base your assertion that 'Bragg loves thugs?'

No, I do not realize that the pending federal case is about stolen documents found at Mar a Lago. I am certain there will be such a case brought. There is also very likely charges to be brought regarding Jan 6. But Jack E Smith does not confide in me and so far, those charges have not been brought nor made public.

Misreporting hushmoney to further or to cover up another crime/crimes IS what elevates misdemeanors to felonies in NY. THAT is why the charges are felonies and not simply misdemeanors. I'm sure you are aware of that. It must have just slipped your mind.