The US National Popular Vote is a little bit closer

[T.G.G. Moogly]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise to get the less populous ( if you count only white people, who were who counted) on board.

This is simply false. Why do you keep repeating this?

I've shown how it is not true and so have others. Please show us some primary evidence to support your claim, and not just another link that says what you want it to say.

 

[Elixir]

I also think voting day should be either moved to Sunday or declared a holiday, but no one listens to me...

I could get behind that... if you could figure out a way to ensure that nobody ever gets hurt and needs to go to a hospital on voting day.

No need to vacate hospitals! The whole idea of making it a holiday would be to give people time to vote, and so they don't all have to do it at once. That means it doesn't take all damn day or night to vote. An hour, maybe. So you can have your usual Holiday staffing arrangement, whatever that is.

I'm more in favor of a universal vote by mail, or perhaps an electronic vote. Or maybe more than one day of voting.

Here, ballots come in the mail along with a voters guide. The courthouse is a few blocks from Safeway where we sometimes shop for food, the drop box is outside by the curb and it's all incredibly easy. Colorado is a model, and Jena Griswold is awesome.

 

[bilby]

The people are NOT “equally represented in the Senate.”

The States are.

That's EXACTLY as it is was intended to be.

FTFY.

It's debatable whether that was a sensible idea two hundred years ago, when people rarely moved interstate, communications were slow, and state identities were a better reflection of the majority of the residents' ideals.

It's a great deal more debatable whether that's a sensible idea today, when differences within states are often far greater than the differences between states. A resident of Houston is more likely to share political opinions with a resident of Chicago or New York City than with the sixty four residents of Loving County.

 

[lpetrich]

Third state this year advances effort to elect president by popular vote - Michigan is moving ahead with the National Popular Vote

David Eggert on Twitter: "At House Elections Committee hearing. The panel may vote to join Michigan with a compact so the winner of the national popular vote gets Michigan’s 15 electoral votes. #Mileg" / Twitter
then
David Eggert on Twitter: "Update: The popular vote bills were passed 6-2 on party lines by the Democratic-led panel. They will next be considered by the full Hiuse. #mileg" / Twitter

It then has to pass the full House and the Senate and be signed into law by the Governor, Gretchen Whitmer.

The NPV states currently have 205 EV's, and if MI joins in, 220 EV's. These states are possible joiners: ME 4, NH 4, PA 19, VA 13, WI 10, AZ 11, NV 6, with a total of 67 EV's. The NPV will go into effect if 270 EV's of states join in, about 50 for those those other states.

 

[Toni]

I think we often lose sight of the fact of just how enormous a task it was to form the United States.

Personally, I'm not talking about the trials and tribulations of rich white male slavers.

I'm talking about the modern world I live in.
The one where Citizens United is deemed Constitutional, but RoevWade is not. That world.

How about we talk about that? Not what was up a couple of centuries ago.
Tom

Sure sure but we ARE talking about what was decided and written into the fabric of our nation—and why it was so written.

This IS important if we are thinking about amending the constitution—which, btw, has still not been amended to grant equal rights gets to women!

It is not easy to amend the US Constitution by design. I, for one, am unconvinced that eliminating the electoral college would always ( or even mostly) give us the results we want, although most likely, Hillary would have been POTUS instead of trump. I wrote most likely because campaign tactics surely would have been somewhat different under a popular vote scheme.

I am also not convinced that if the last couple of elections which were decided by the electoral college contrary to popular vote had resulted in a Dem POTUS, we would be looking to eliminate the electoral college—even though there has been some talk if that for years.

I AM concerned in general about heavily populated regions having an unwarranted power over determining ‘what is best’ for less populous regions. I’ve spent my adulthood sometimes in urban centers and sometimes in rural centers. Even when I was a fairly devoted urbanite, the way that some areas wanted to arrange things in rural areas to suit the urbanites, with little care or consideration for those whose lives would be most affected did not sit well with me.

I think we need a balance and the electoral college helps in that regard.

 

[Toni]

The people are NOT “equally represented in the Senate.”

The States are.

That's EXACTLY as it is was intended to be.

FTFY.

It's debatable whether that was a sensible idea two hundred years ago, when people rarely moved interstate, communications were slow, and state identities were a better reflection of the majority of the residents' ideals.

It's a great deal more debatable whether that's a sensible idea today, when differences within states are often far greater than the differences between states. A resident of Houston is more likely to share political opinions with a resident of Chicago or New York City than with the sixty four residents of Loving County.

That depends entirely in the issue. I would not stand in any street in Houston and declare any similarities whatsoever with NYC. Same with Chicago. I don’t know how things are in Oz, but in the US, there is a lot of regional pride. There is also a lot of false assumptions made about the attitudes of more rural areas and what their biggest issues are, hint: it’s also jobs, economic security, adequate housing and health care. Everywhere. Always.

 

[Toni]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise to get the less populous ( if you count only white people, who were who counted) on board.

This is simply false. Why do you keep repeating this?

I've shown how it is not true and so have others. Please show us some primary evidence to support your claim, and not just another link that says what you want it to say.

I did post something up thread. You posted some opinion by someone in FactChecker, which is different than Fact Check and what ch cited no sources.

So apres vous, s’il vous plait.

 

[Toni]

Right. Intended by the landed gentry who designed this slaveowner-friendly system.

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise to get the less populous ( if you count only white people, who were who counted) on board.

I think we often lose sight of the fact of just how enormous a task it was to form the United States. Lots of compromises were made. Some possibly should not have been but they were.

Yup, and it is outdated and as useless as the electric hand-dryer in the Death Valley restroom.

We didn’t lose sight of how big a task it was, b ut we don’t need to polish the turd any more.

WHY is it outdated?

 

[laughing dog]

I am no longer a proponent of the Electoral college. Ignoring the attempts of EC shenanigans of the last election, I think the Electoral College makes POTUS candidates concentrate on battle ground states - only those voters matter. Popular vote means all voters matter.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise to get the less populous ( if you count only white people, who were who counted) on board.

This is simply false. Why do you keep repeating this?

I've shown how it is not true and so have others. Please show us some primary evidence to support your claim, and not just another link that says what you want it to say.

I did post something up thread. You posted some opinion by someone in FactChecker, which is different than Fact Check and what ch cited no sources.

So apres vous, s’il vous plait.

You posted a link that simply stated what you said and didn't cite any sources for the information. I posted a link that cited primary evidence that the EC is not based on state populations. There is absolutely no evidence in the historical record that the EC is about protecting states with small populations. This is a myth. Enjoy your fantasy.

 

[Rhea]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise

Yup, and it is outdated and as useless as the electric hand-dryer in the Death Valley restroom.

We didn’t lose sight of how big a task it was, b ut we don’t need to polish the turd any more.

WHY is it outdated?

I already said why. I will say it again:

Because people leave home and move from place to place so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people travel for leisure from place to place so much that regional identity is not what it was.
Because people leave the state for school so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people commute between states such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because immigrants arrive and bring their own cultures such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because television and radio create instant national news such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because the internet erases distance and creates lively communities such that regional identity is nothing like it was.

I have siblings in New England, the upper south and the great lakes. I have cousins in the plains, the mountains, the south, the northeast and the midwest. I have colleagues in a dozen states and as many countries. My internet Mommy-Group has beloved members from coast to coast and border to border including NYC and Houston.

Because the rural states are **NOT** backwoods hicks, they are national citizens and global community members with internet.

Because there is nothing “Delaware-ey” that would be lost by Delware’s citizens having the same voting power as every other citizen.


You keep saying that “rural flavor would be lost” and I keep telling you that rural identity does not equal state identity and that moreover, I live Rural in a populous state and the idea that our flavor is lost by sharing elections with urban people is Just. Not. True.

 

[Toni]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise

Yup, and it is outdated and as useless as the electric hand-dryer in the Death Valley restroom.

We didn’t lose sight of how big a task it was, b ut we don’t need to polish the turd any more.

WHY is it outdated?

I already said why. I will say it again:

Because people leave home and move from place to place so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people travel for leisure from place to place so much that regional identity is not what it was.
Because people leave the state for school so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people commute between states such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because immigrants arrive and bring their own cultures such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because television and radio create instant national news such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because the internet erases distance and creates lively communities such that regional identity is nothing like it was.

I have siblings in New England, the upper south and the great lakes. I have cousins in the plains, the mountains, the south, the northeast and the midwest. I have colleagues in a dozen states and as many countries. My internet Mommy-Group has beloved members from coast to coast and border to border including NYC and Houston.

Because the rural states are **NOT** backwoods hicks, they are national citizens and global community members with internet.

Because there is nothing “Delaware-ey” that would be lost by Delware’s citizens having the same voting power as every other citizen.


You keep saying that “rural flavor would be lost” and I keep telling you that rural identity does not equal state identity and that moreover, I live Rural in a populous state and the idea that our flavor is lost by sharing elections with urban people is Just. Not. True.

Yes, regional differences have flattened substantially but they still do exist.

You live in a rural area and seem to resent the hell out of your fellow rural citizens for not thinking and behaving as you do.

Like you, I have friends and relatives in and from every region of the US and also in Europe and Asia and the Mid-east and in Australia. I have relatives who grew up in trailers and relatives who grew up…with nannies and country homes and city apartments who summered on the Cape or in Europe. And ant least one who is on the very edge of homelessness. And everything in between. I am frequently struck by both the similarities and the differences between people who live in very similar and very dissimilar areas. The same is true of people who live in cities, in suburbs and in rural areas.

People have a tendency to see the world through lenses made up of their own experiences. People have the right and the responsibility to be able to make choices for themselves and fir their neighborhoods—whether that is comprised of a few Duden or hundreds of thousands of other people. People should be able to make choices they feel are in their own best interests and not have the particulars of their lives dictated by those who would never deign to set foot in their living room.

 

[Gospel]

I remain undecided on this popular vote business. I say, let's wait until we hit a demographic equilibrium, a 50/50 split between diverse communities and our white compatriots. Kna mean? Then we can consider the popular vote. As it stands, there's an overabundance of eccentric folks across the political spectrum. Liberals, conservatives—you name it!

 

[TomC]

a 50/50 split between diverse communities and our white compatriots.

What does this mean?
Are you framing the issue in terms of race?

I just want an American government that better represents the American people. A democratically elected POTUS would be a good start.
And the issue has the huge advantage of not requiring any involvement from the DC Swamp, and all their assorted interests.

Popular election of the President isn't a magic wand or anything. But it's a feasible start on taking back our country.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

a 50/50 split between diverse communities and our white compatriots.

What does this mean?
Are you framing the issue in terms of race?

I just want an American government that better represents the American people. A democratically elected POTUS would be a good start.
And the issue has the huge advantage of not requiring any involvement from the DC Swamp, and all their assorted interests.

Popular election of the President isn't a magic wand or anything. But it's a feasible start on taking back our country.
Tom

Look at the format. It's a comedic peace.

 

[TomC]

It's a comedic peace.

I'm totally stealing this line.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Just be sure to correct the spelling.

 

[TomC]

Just be sure to correct the spelling.

It's the spelling that makes it adorable.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise

Yup, and it is outdated and as useless as the electric hand-dryer in the Death Valley restroom.

We didn’t lose sight of how big a task it was, b ut we don’t need to polish the turd any more.

WHY is it outdated?

I already said why. I will say it again:

Because people leave home and move from place to place so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people travel for leisure from place to place so much that regional identity is not what it was.
Because people leave the state for school so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people commute between states such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because immigrants arrive and bring their own cultures such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because television and radio create instant national news such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because the internet erases distance and creates lively communities such that regional identity is nothing like it was.

I have siblings in New England, the upper south and the great lakes. I have cousins in the plains, the mountains, the south, the northeast and the midwest. I have colleagues in a dozen states and as many countries. My internet Mommy-Group has beloved members from coast to coast and border to border including NYC and Houston.

Because the rural states are **NOT** backwoods hicks, they are national citizens and global community members with internet.

Because there is nothing “Delaware-ey” that would be lost by Delware’s citizens having the same voting power as every other citizen.


You keep saying that “rural flavor would be lost” and I keep telling you that rural identity does not equal state identity and that moreover, I live Rural in a populous state and the idea that our flavor is lost by sharing elections with urban people is Just. Not. True.

Lot's of truth here. Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities while fostering national unity. Finding a way to celebrate differences while working together as nations is crucial to avoid killing each other. Too bad my words are just hippie subculture jargon. I'm all for the popular vote. However I'd be lying if I said I believed that it would unify Americans.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I am no longer a proponent of the Electoral college. Ignoring the attempts of EC shenanigans of the last election, I think the Electoral College makes POTUS candidates concentrate on battle ground states - only those voters matter. Popular vote means all voters matter.

However, battleground states are more diverse (politically) than the big states.

Without the EC, the GOP is in trouble. Even with the EC, the GOP is in trouble. While Ohio and Iowa are trending red, Texas, North Carolina, and Georgia are trending purple. Without Georgia, the GOP is fucked! It is the second largest state EV wise for them, well, third now that Florida GOP has convinced Cubans, the Democrats want to reinstall Castro as the US President.