The US National Popular Vote is a little bit closer

[bilby]

Lot's of truth here. Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities while fostering national unity.

Spoken like a true American*.

Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities and fostering global unity.

Americans' problem seems to be in recognising that the other 95% of the world even exists. As exemplified by the number of different nations represented at the baseball World Series; The anointing of the Super Bowl winners as "world champions"; and the above quoted post.











* Not necessarily a compliment

 

[Gospel]

I deserved that.

 

[TomC]

Without the EC, the GOP is in trouble. Even with the EC, the GOP is in trouble.

Exactly.
Without the EC and gerrymandering the Republican power would be circling the drain like their demographics are. Wedge issues just aren't working as well as they used to work.

Without all that, the Republican Party are just a bunch of ethically primitive holdouts from yesteryear.
Tom

 

[TomC]

I disserved that.

You keep coming up with these great lines.

I'm gonna start a thread "Gospel Truth"!
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I have this gut feeling telling me that if we get rid if the EC and go full popular vote the Know Nothing party will return and folks living in rural areas will become hostile towards urban folk. Small skirmishes replicating Shays' Rebellion of 1786-1787 will spout up in small towns with people being harassed in places their simply passing through on their way to somewhere else because of their state license plate.

Edit: Thanks Tom. I fixed it.

 

[Toni]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise

Yup, and it is outdated and as useless as the electric hand-dryer in the Death Valley restroom.

We didn’t lose sight of how big a task it was, b ut we don’t need to polish the turd any more.

WHY is it outdated?

I already said why. I will say it again:

Because people leave home and move from place to place so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people travel for leisure from place to place so much that regional identity is not what it was.
Because people leave the state for school so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people commute between states such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because immigrants arrive and bring their own cultures such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because television and radio create instant national news such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because the internet erases distance and creates lively communities such that regional identity is nothing like it was.

I have siblings in New England, the upper south and the great lakes. I have cousins in the plains, the mountains, the south, the northeast and the midwest. I have colleagues in a dozen states and as many countries. My internet Mommy-Group has beloved members from coast to coast and border to border including NYC and Houston.

Because the rural states are **NOT** backwoods hicks, they are national citizens and global community members with internet.

Because there is nothing “Delaware-ey” that would be lost by Delware’s citizens having the same voting power as every other citizen.


You keep saying that “rural flavor would be lost” and I keep telling you that rural identity does not equal state identity and that moreover, I live Rural in a populous state and the idea that our flavor is lost by sharing elections with urban people is Just. Not. True.

Lot's of truth here. Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities while fostering national unity. Finding a way to celebrate differences while working together as nations is crucial to avoid killing each other. Too bad my words are just hippie subculture jargon. I'm all for the popular vote. However I'd be lying if I said I believed that it would unify Americans.

I dunno, Gospel. Sounds a whole lot like what the Founding Fathers were trying to do. Of course they were a bunch of long hairs, too. Also largely slave holders who didn’t believe women needed rights, either, so obviously lots and lots of room for improvement .

 

[Toni]

Lot's of truth here. Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities while fostering national unity.

Spoken like a true American*.

Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities and fostering global unity.

Americans' problem seems to be in recognising that the other 95% of the world even exists. As exemplified by the number of different nations represented at the baseball World Series; The anointing of the Super Bowl winners as "world champions"; and the above quoted post.











* Not necessarily a compliment

Not really so much. There has generally been an isolationist streak amongst us, sure. But the last 7-8 years have really drilled home our need to set our own house in order.

Plus not everybody can be as imperialistic as Great Britain. Now there’s a needle to thread: keeping in mind the rightful needs of the rest of the world without actually colonizing them. We’re trying, though. See: Ukraine, for example. And trying to keep things to a slow comfortable roar with China.

 

[TomC]

Edit: Thanks Tom. I fixed it.

Fortunately, I preserved it for posterity.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

That’s only partly correct. The electoral college was a compromise

Yup, and it is outdated and as useless as the electric hand-dryer in the Death Valley restroom.

We didn’t lose sight of how big a task it was, b ut we don’t need to polish the turd any more.

WHY is it outdated?

I already said why. I will say it again:

Because people leave home and move from place to place so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people travel for leisure from place to place so much that regional identity is not what it was.
Because people leave the state for school so much that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because people commute between states such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because immigrants arrive and bring their own cultures such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because television and radio create instant national news such that regional identity is nothing like it was.
Because the internet erases distance and creates lively communities such that regional identity is nothing like it was.

I have siblings in New England, the upper south and the great lakes. I have cousins in the plains, the mountains, the south, the northeast and the midwest. I have colleagues in a dozen states and as many countries. My internet Mommy-Group has beloved members from coast to coast and border to border including NYC and Houston.

Because the rural states are **NOT** backwoods hicks, they are national citizens and global community members with internet.

Because there is nothing “Delaware-ey” that would be lost by Delware’s citizens having the same voting power as every other citizen.


You keep saying that “rural flavor would be lost” and I keep telling you that rural identity does not equal state identity and that moreover, I live Rural in a populous state and the idea that our flavor is lost by sharing elections with urban people is Just. Not. True.

Lot's of truth here. Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities while fostering national unity. Finding a way to celebrate differences while working together as nations is crucial to avoid killing each other. Too bad my words are just hippie subculture jargon. I'm all for the popular vote. However I'd be lying if I said I believed that it would unify Americans.

I dunno, Gospel. Sounds a whole lot like what the Founding Fathers were trying to do. Of course they were a bunch of long hairs, too. Also largely slave holders who didn’t believe women needed rights, either, so obviously lots and lots of room for improvement .

True, however just like they were concerned that the government would turn on it's people , they were also concerned about majority rule thus that whole Bill of Rights thingy.

 

[Emily Lake]

I remain undecided on this popular vote business. I say, let's wait until we hit a demographic equilibrium, a 50/50 split between diverse communities and our white compatriots. Kna mean? Then we can consider the popular vote. As it stands, there's an overabundance of eccentric folks across the political spectrum. Liberals, conservatives—you name it!

Like I said earlier... I could get behind a popular vote, but ONLY under a different voting system. Not with FPTP. Not the least of which is the ability of a majority with bad ideas to ruin it for everyone.

 

[Emily Lake]

Lot's of truth here. Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities while fostering national unity. Finding a way to celebrate differences while working together as nations is crucial to avoid killing each other. Too bad my words are just hippie subculture jargon. I'm all for the popular vote. However I'd be lying if I said I believed that it would unify Americans.

Honestly, I think the president might be the LEAST of the problems we've got. I mean, partisanship is a big problem, don't get me wrong... but "more people like this one guy" is not even close to a solution.

 

[Emily Lake]

I am no longer a proponent of the Electoral college. Ignoring the attempts of EC shenanigans of the last election, I think the Electoral College makes POTUS candidates concentrate on battle ground states - only those voters matter. Popular vote means all voters matter.

However, battleground states are more diverse (politically) than the big states.

Without the EC, the GOP is in trouble. Even with the EC, the GOP is in trouble. While Ohio and Iowa are trending red, Texas, North Carolina, and Georgia are trending purple. Without Georgia, the GOP is fucked! It is the second largest state EV wise for them, well, third now that Florida GOP has convinced Cubans, the Democrats want to reinstall Castro as the US President.

Genuine question: Why is it that so many staunch democrats are so completely convinced that the republican party is on the brink of collapse? The number of independents is growing, and democrats and republicans have roughly equal footholds in the remaining partisans. This is never going to result in one side "winning", you know that, right?

 

[Emily Lake]

Humanity's problem is striking a balance between acknowledging regional identities and fostering global unity.

I think we're a long, long, looooooong way from even beginning to approach global unity.

Also, national unity is how we avoid civil wars, so it's kind of important

 

[Emily Lake]

Without the EC, the GOP is in trouble. Even with the EC, the GOP is in trouble.

Exactly.
Without the EC and gerrymandering the Republican power would be circling the drain like their demographics are. Wedge issues just aren't working as well as they used to work.

Without all that, the Republican Party are just a bunch of ethically primitive holdouts from yesteryear.
Tom

Totally. Half the population of the US is absolutely circling the drain. Yep. Totally.

It genuinely boggles me that you guys are so completely convinced that you're on the brink of complete victory. You know it's never going to happen, right? We're structured in a way that inevitably creates a perpetual two-party system. It's NEVER going to result in one of those parties taking over. It's always going to be damn near a 50/50 split.

 

[TomC]

. Half the population of the US is absolutely circling the drain. Yep. Totally

What makes you think that TeaPartiers represent half the population?

If they did, they'd be in favor of free and fair elections.
Guess what?
Tom

 

[Emily Lake]

. Half the population of the US is absolutely circling the drain. Yep. Totally

What makes you think that TeaPartiers represent half the population?

If they did, they'd be in favor of free and fair elections.
Guess what?
Tom

What makes you think that the entire Republican Party is made up of Tea Partiers?

 

[TomC]

. Half the population of the US is absolutely circling the drain. Yep. Totally

What makes you think that TeaPartiers represent half the population?

If they did, they'd be in favor of free and fair elections.
Guess what?
Tom

What makes you think that the entire Republican Party is made up of Tea Partiers?

Trump.
MTG.
McConnell.
Gaetz.

Then there's the SCOTUS appointees.

Lots and lots of reasons.

Also the problem that RINOs like Romney and Cheney have.

That's a start.
Tom

 

[Rhea]

You live in a rural area and seem to resent the hell out of your fellow rural citizens for not thinking and behaving as you do.

You have not interpreted that correctly. I do not at all resent them for thinking and behaving differently than me. In general they do NOT think and behave differently than me. And yet, THEY RESENT ME. And that is the part I resent.

I have not painted 4x8 plywood with slurs against them and put it up by the roadside. I have not brought guns to their meetings. I have not written threatening letters and distributed them about town. I have not stuck video cameras in their faces and published it to militia members. I have not screamed at them in public meetings. I have not refused to do business with them when I find out they are Republicans, and I have not put screws in their tires.

And that is why I don’t buy for one second your tale that the humble salt of the earth rural folk never say a bad word about anybody.

 

[Rhea]

ts. As exemplified by the number of different nations represented at the baseball World Series;

You need to know that in this context, “world” does not mean planet earth. It means a newspaper in NYC.

 

[Rhea]

Without the EC and gerrymandering the Republican power would be circling the drain like their demographics are. Wedge issues just aren't working as well as they used to work.

But ! We have to “preserve!” and “balance!” The GOP “identity” !!!! Even if it means a bunch of peopole’s votes will never count!