Split Conservatives Feel Attacked (was Special Counsel 2)

[Rhea]

What a lot of conservatives feel is attacked.

oh, first time?
yeah that’s hard. Wait’ll year 400.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What a lot of conservatives feel is attacked.

oh, first time?
yeah that’s hard. Wait’ll year 400.

Feel? What does feeling have to do with anything if I'm an adult and I can think and act rationally? I'm supposed to have mastered those "feelings" that controlled my behavior when I was a child.

 

[Toni]

What a lot of conservatives feel is attacked.

oh, first time?
yeah that’s hard. Wait’ll year 400.

Feel? What does feeling have to do with anything if I'm an adult and I can think and act rationally? I'm supposed to have mastered those "feelings" that controlled my behavior when I was a child.

‘Supposed to’ is the operative phrase here.

But sincerely: Fuck that shit. There is nothing wrong and everything right about feelings. We’re supposed to have feelings. We’re supposed to acknowledge our feelings and the feelings of other people.

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

 

[bigfield]

It is more urgent today than ever before that we look for common ground. There is a lot there. We just need to pay more attention to it.

LIke what?

I can only think of really fundamental stuff like Maslowe's hierarchy of needs.

Can you think of any policies that would appeal to people based on this common ground?

As far as I can tell people who live in different environs and have different social and economic priorities usually benefit from different government policies, and therefore fall into different political interest groups to be carved out and won over. Politics inevitabilty pits such interest groups against each other.

I don't even know what people in country towns need to make their lives significantly and immediately better but I'm pretty sure it's quite different than what I need in the suburbs/city.

 

[Elixir]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

 

[laughing dog]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

That is all well and good, but it ignores an observational reality that a large promotion of people who are chronologically adults have not mastered their feelings to such a degree. And I would add I see no difference in proportions based on ideology. In my view, it is part of the human condition.

 

[Toni]

It is more urgent today than ever before that we look for common ground. There is a lot there. We just need to pay more attention to it.

LIke what?

I can only think of really fundamental stuff like Maslowe's hierarchy of needs.

Can you think of any policies that would appeal to people based on this common ground?

As far as I can tell people who live in different environs and have different social and economic priorities usually benefit from different government policies, and therefore fall into different political interest groups to be carved out and won over. Politics inevitabilty pits such interest groups against each other.

I don't even know what people in country towns need to make their lives significantly and immediately better but I'm pretty sure it's quite different than what I need in the suburbs/city.

Good jobs
Good education
Good healthcare
Good roads
Access to goods and services needed by families, from north through old age
Good internet access
Respect

Honestly, it’s not a lot different between small town rural and suburban or even urban. Everyone wants to have good jobs, access to good health care and good education. They want an economically secure future for their families. They want to be treated as equals. They want to be treated with respect.

Now, some of that means different things to different people, sure. But people tend to know when others think they matter and when others look down upon them. Even without Ivy League educations.

 

[Toni]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.

 

[Elixir]

a large promotion of people who are chronologically adults have not mastered their feelings to such a degree

Has it always been so, or has a culture of immaturity risen with the anti truth cult of personality that has enveloped some 30% of the American public?
Seems to me that Trumpism is, at its heart, a permission slip for a range of infantile behavioral responses to intrusive realities (like Trump’s criminal conduct).

Perhaps it has always existed and Trumpism just focuses it, but I think it’s actually new.
For most of my life I felt like there was broad general agreement across the social spectrum about what was good and what was bad, and it seems that now, that has been turned on it’s head.

 

[Elixir]

people tend to know when others think they matter and when others look down upon them. Even without Ivy League educations.

My town and my County have undergone radical transformation in the 26 years I’ve lived here. 25 years ago there was an insurgency of artists and musicians - you know, “enlightened” types who tended to look down on the locals, whether they were unemployed former molybdenum miners, cattle ranchers or hay farmers. Then in the early 2000s, the money started to show up. Tech employees were suddenly able to live wherever they wanted, and hordes of them descended on the area. That seemed to have a surprising equalizing effect. Local rancher’s’ knowledge of the local ecology, for instance, became valuable to people whose interest was purely recreational. Artists representations started becoming more literal and less interpretive, making it accessible even to those locals who have been rightfully fearful of displacement.
I actually felt like a new community was emerging, one that embraced the unity of purpose of a diverse population.
Then came 2016, and it all went to hell. By 2020 there were flag-flying monster trucks with gun-totin’ idiots driving around, honking and yelling, and annoying the other 60% of the population.
To this day I don’t know who those idiots are/were. Certainly nobody I knew, and I know a LOT of political conservatives. It’s almost like that contingent was from somewhere else and was sicced on our community by some malevolent outside force.
One thing for sure; whoever they are/were, they certainly resurrected the local pastime of looking down on people.

 

[laughing dog]

a large promotion of people who are chronologically adults have not mastered their feelings to such a degree

Has it always been so, or has a culture of immaturity risen with the anti truth cult of personality that has enveloped some 30% of the American public?
Seems to me that Trumpism is, at its heart, a permission slip for a range of infantile behavioral responses to intrusive realities (like Trump’s criminal conduct).

Perhaps it has always existed and Trumpism just focuses it, but I think it’s actually new.
For most of my life I felt like there was broad general agreement across the social spectrum about what was good and what was bad, and it seems that now, that has been turned on it’s head.

You ask a good question. I like to think that the proportions haven’t changed haven’t changed much. I like to think what has changed is the avenues for quick public dissemination. But what I like to think is true and what is true are not necessarily the same.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.

Indeed. Of course when conservatives are proudly telling liberals "fuck your feelings", makes it a but harder to empathize... especially while supporting the actual policies that'd help conservatives in economically lagging areas... while the conservatives actively reject those policies.

 

[Toni]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.

Indeed. Of course when conservatives are proudly telling liberals "fuck your feelings", makes it a but harder to empathize... especially while supporting the actual policies that'd help conservatives in economically lagging areas... while the conservatives actively reject those policies.

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.

When conservatives cry fuck your feelings ( which, tbh, I only hear liberals talk about) maybe it should occur to liberals that what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years. Or it seems that way to conservatives.

In this thread or another I wrote about a family member’s farm that was taken by imminent domain to put in a necessary stretch of interstate, for which they were compensated but it destroyed a multigenerational farmstead—and forced a retirement of someone who wasn’t ready.
Now, if this were an urban black neighborhood, there would be a plot of sympathy for the loss of homes, and more importantly, neighborhood.

It’s the same damn thing. But liberals feel sorry for urban black peopl, many f whom have the same conservative family values as the rural farmers who, where I grew up were white. There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.

People are people are people.

And yeah,, during the Obama era, I suddenly started to see big jacked up trucks with the stars and bats flying in this very far from the Mason Dixon state.

 

[Elixir]

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU.

You HEAR that?
I suspect that you FEEL it.

what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years.

UNsaid, and almost purely unintended.
Stupid people have been ignored and ridiculed by smart people, and ignorant people have been ridiculed and ignored by informed people since time immemorial. We can change that if there’s some reason to heed the stupid and the ignorant, I suppose. Seems like you, Toni, are doing your best to heed their concerns. How’s that working out?
BTW, I freely ridicule or ignore the stupid and the ignorant as groups, but treat the stupid/ignorant individuals with due consideration and respect, just for their basic humanity - which varies very little between us. Nonetheless I dont want them making decisions for the rest of us.

 

[Toni]

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU.

You HEAR that?
I suspect that you FEEL it.

what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years.

UNsaid, and almost purely unintended.
Stupid people have been ignored and ridiculed by smart people, and ignorant people have been ridiculed and ignored by informed people since time immemorial. We can change that if there’s some reason to heed the stupid and the ignorant, I suppose. Seems like you, Toni, are doing your best to heed their concerns. How’s that working out?
BTW, I freely ridicule or ignore the stupid and the ignorant as groups, but treat the stupid/ignorant individuals with due consideration and respect, just for their basic humanity - which varies very little between us. Nonetheless I dont want them making decisions for the rest of us.

So: rural and small town people are stupid.

Got it.

How is it working out for you when you ridicule and look down on people with whom you disagree? Changed any hearts and minds yet?

This, btw, is how we all lose.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.

Indeed. Of course when conservatives are proudly telling liberals "fuck your feelings", makes it a but harder to empathize... especially while supporting the actual policies that'd help conservatives in economically lagging areas... while the conservatives actively reject those policies.

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.

When conservatives cry fuck your feelings ( which, tbh, I only hear liberals talk about) maybe it should occur to liberals that what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years. Or it seems that way to conservatives.

In this thread or another I wrote about a family member’s farm that was taken by imminent domain to put in a necessary stretch of interstate, for which they were compensated but it destroyed a multigenerational farmstead—and forced a retirement of someone who wasn’t ready.
Now, if this were an urban black neighborhood, there would be a plot of sympathy for the loss of homes, and more importantly, neighborhood.

It’s the same damn thing. But liberals feel sorry for urban black peopl, many f whom have the same conservative family values as the rural farmers who, where I grew up were white. There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.

People are people are people.

And yeah,, during the Obama era, I suddenly started to see big jacked up trucks with the stars and bats flying in this very far from the Mason Dixon state.

Have conservatives ever done anything wrong, or is everything bad the fault of meanie liberals?

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.

Perhaps you're mistaking the recognition that black people have it much worse as a lack of sympathy for white people.

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”

The racist history of America's interstate highway boom

Construction of the U.S. Interstate Highway System tore through the nation’s urban areas with freeways that, through intention and indifference, carved up Black communities

www.latimes.com

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.

If you think liberals are mean, wait until you hear about what right-wingers say about the left/center:

groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
pro-crime
racist against white people

 

[Ford]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.

Indeed. Of course when conservatives are proudly telling liberals "fuck your feelings", makes it a but harder to empathize... especially while supporting the actual policies that'd help conservatives in economically lagging areas... while the conservatives actively reject those policies.

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.

When conservatives cry fuck your feelings ( which, tbh, I only hear liberals talk about) maybe it should occur to liberals that what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years. Or it seems that way to conservatives.

When it comes to the charges against Trump, feelings ain't got nothing to do with it. He flat-out broke the law and bragged about it to boot.

Yet he's absolutely appealing to feelings in his very public defense. Conservatives who are rallying to his side are also appealing to feelings. "Why is it that Biden isn't being prosecuted? Why wasn't there a raid on Hillary's house? Why hasn't someone done something about Obama taking 98 billion classified documents and storing them in a crack house in Chicago? Our guy is being treated unfairly! It's all unfair!"

I don't know about y'all, but one of the first lessons I learned from my parents is that life isn't always fair. Your feelings are gonna get hurt. Things are going to happen that seem horribly unfair. Part of being an adult is understanding this fact and dealing with it like an adult.

Trump and his shrinking cadre of fawning sycophants can't seem to do this, and instead of being contrite, are leaning into the "it's just not fair!" narrative. Pushing whataboutism to the limits. Trying to tell us that a man who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and has been (allegedly) a billionaire since Magnum P.I. was on television is now somehow suddenly a victim of an unfair system.

Really?

 

[Toni]

Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.

Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)

I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.

Indeed. Of course when conservatives are proudly telling liberals "fuck your feelings", makes it a but harder to empathize... especially while supporting the actual policies that'd help conservatives in economically lagging areas... while the conservatives actively reject those policies.

But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.

When conservatives cry fuck your feelings ( which, tbh, I only hear liberals talk about) maybe it should occur to liberals that what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years. Or it seems that way to conservatives.

In this thread or another I wrote about a family member’s farm that was taken by imminent domain to put in a necessary stretch of interstate, for which they were compensated but it destroyed a multigenerational farmstead—and forced a retirement of someone who wasn’t ready.
Now, if this were an urban black neighborhood, there would be a plot of sympathy for the loss of homes, and more importantly, neighborhood.

It’s the same damn thing. But liberals feel sorry for urban black peopl, many f whom have the same conservative family values as the rural farmers who, where I grew up were white. There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.

People are people are people.

And yeah,, during the Obama era, I suddenly started to see big jacked up trucks with the stars and bats flying in this very far from the Mason Dixon state.

Have conservatives ever done anything wrong, or is everything bad the fault of meanie liberals?

Have you ever made a thoughtful post that made an honest attempt to understand the conversation or are you just in it for the lols?