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Split Conservatives Feel Attacked (was Special Counsel 2)

To notify a split thread.
But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.
If you think liberals are mean, wait until you hear about what right-wingers say about the left/center:

groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
pro-crime
racist against white people

Honestly this Toni.
While there is plenty of blame to spread around, I don't see nearly the amount of caustic vitriol from center/left as conservative people.
Tom
 
I will say that treason and espionage has not been established, as far as a I know. He'd have to intentionally leak this stuff to our enemies, which I think we technically lack. And Betrayal isn't a crime, though it could easily be an impeachable thing, if as President.
The bolded is not necessary to charge someone under the espionage act.
 
Feelings: We all got ‘em.
We all need to deal with them.
Stuffing them down inside until we are numb to anything except outrage is not being a mature grown up.
Letting our feelings rule our actions and responses is the antithesis of being a mature grownup.
Mastering our feelings doesn’t mean suppressing them as you imply. TGG is talking about knowing the difference between an impulse (feeling) and a considered response/action, and choosing the appropriate one in a given situation.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, TGG)
I agree that is how mature adults manage their emotions and how they respect other people’s emotions.
Indeed. Of course when conservatives are proudly telling liberals "fuck your feelings", makes it a but harder to empathize... especially while supporting the actual policies that'd help conservatives in economically lagging areas... while the conservatives actively reject those policies.
But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.

When conservatives cry fuck your feelings ( which, tbh, I only hear liberals talk about) maybe it should occur to liberals that what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years. Or it seems that way to conservatives.

When it comes to the charges against Trump, feelings ain't got nothing to do with it. He flat-out broke the law and bragged about it to boot.

Yet he's absolutely appealing to feelings in his very public defense. Conservatives who are rallying to his side are also appealing to feelings. "Why is it that Biden isn't being prosecuted? Why wasn't there a raid on Hillary's house? Why hasn't someone done something about Obama taking 98 billion classified documents and storing them in a crack house in Chicago? Our guy is being treated unfairly! It's all unfair!"

I don't know about y'all, but one of the first lessons I learned from my parents is that life isn't always fair. Your feelings are gonna get hurt. Things are going to happen that seem horribly unfair. Part of being an adult is understanding this fact and dealing with it like an adult.

Trump and his shrinking cadre of fawning sycophants can't seem to do this, and instead of being contrite, are leaning into the "it's just not fair!" narrative. Pushing whataboutism to the limits. Trying to tell us that a man who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and has been (allegedly) a billionaire since Magnum P.I. was on television is now somehow suddenly a victim of an unfair system.

Really?
Do you think I disagree?

I cannot understand how/why any decent human being would have even considered voting for him.

And yet, there are plenty of people I know who ARE decent, hardworking human beings. They are 100% wrong about anything and everything they thought Trump would do for them or our country or the world.
 
But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.
If you think liberals are mean, wait until you hear about what right-wingers say about the left/center:

groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
pro-crime
racist against white people

Honestly this Toni.
While there is plenty of blame to spread around, I don't see nearly the amount of caustic vitriol from center/left as conservative people.
Tom
Really? Look at the shit being flung at me because I said that conservatives want mostly the same things liberals want. And I’m pretty much considered a radical leftist feminazi with.TERF leanings because I dare to say that yep, some women are gonna freak out when unexpectedly confronted by a male appearing person in a women’s only space.

So go ahead and tell me how nice liberals are.

People are people are people. And a bunch of us need to grow the fuck up and learn to get along.
 
But what I hear from a lot of my fellow liberals is a lot of unstated fuck your feelings and we college educated people know what’s best for YOU. Wrapped up in a lot of politically correct verbiage, of course.
If you think liberals are mean, wait until you hear about what right-wingers say about the left/center:

groomers
pedophiles
baby killers
cannibals
drink the blood of children
satanic
demonic
beta males
low-T
soy boys
gay liberal agenda
they're replacing whites with poor dirty brown people
white genocide
pro-crime
racist against white people
I’ve raised too many kids and had too many siblings not to recognize the old But Ma! They started it first!

Besides, you are confusing Fox News and NewsMax with conservatives. And a lot of other confusion…
 
There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.
Perhaps you're mistaking the recognition that black people have it much worse as a lack of sympathy for white people.

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”

Or perhaps you are unable to consider that there exists a possibility of finding some common ground.

Y’all seem to want civil war because somehow you cannot understand that understanding someone has a different perspective than yours is not the same thing as agreeing with them. Real mature.
 
Look at the shit being flung at me
I don't see anyone flinging shit at you. I see you defending fascists and some other people responding accordingly.
I said that conservatives want mostly the same things liberals want.
This is a meaningless bromide. You could say the same about Nazis and Jewish people in Germany circa 1920s and '30s. The important bit is the disagreement on what should or shouldn't be done regarding "the Jewish question".
 
There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.
Perhaps you're mistaking the recognition that black people have it much worse as a lack of sympathy for white people.

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”

Or perhaps you are unable to consider that there exists a possibility of finding some common ground.

Y’all seem to want civil war because somehow you cannot understand that understanding someone has a different perspective than yours is not the same thing as agreeing with them. Real mature.
Refusing to bothsides and coddle fascists =/= "want a civil war".
 
There is to me, a clear racial component to the sympathy and empathy white liberal people are willing to show sympathy for.
Perhaps you're mistaking the recognition that black people have it much worse as a lack of sympathy for white people.

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”

Or perhaps you are unable to consider that there exists a possibility of finding some common ground.

Y’all seem to want civil war because somehow you cannot understand that understanding someone has a different perspective than yours is not the same thing as agreeing with them. Real mature.
Refusing to bothsides and coddle fascists =/= "want a civil war".
Refusing to read with comprehension and consider that you’re actually talking to someone who agrees with your politics like they are beneath your consideration because they DARE to say that we need to look for common ground is irrational and not likely to further your cause. This ain’t Instagram or TikTok, ya know. You aren’t gonna be able to cash in on your likes.
 

And yet, there are plenty of people I know who ARE decent, hardworking human beings. They are 100% wrong about anything and everything they thought Trump would do for them or our country or the world.


I cannot understand how/why any decent human being would have even considered voting for him.
I can kind of understand why they'd have voted for him in 2016. He was a TV celebrity who exuded success (even though it was all bullshit) and appealed to "regular" Americans.

In 2020? I struggle to grasp why after 4 years of his painfully obvious incompetence anyone would vote for him, but they did.

Next year? I am at a loss to explain why. But if he's the nominee, tens of millions will check that box at the ballot. I don't for one second think he'll win, but still...
 
When conservatives cry fuck your feelings ( which, tbh, I only hear liberals talk about) maybe it should occur to liberals that what is unsaid is that the feelings and sensibilities of conservatives have been ignored and ridiculed by liberals for years. Or it seems that way to conservatives.
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Whataboutism is pointless. Yes there are thoughtless and/ or vile people on all sides of the aisle. Offering an explanation why someone may think or feel a certain is not defending anyone.

People’s feelings are their feelings. Dismissing the feeling for whatever reason does not make those feelings disappear. If one wishes to make life better in the USA, all sides need to understand each other and hopefully stop trying to destroy each other. That is obviously the message in Toni’s posts in this thread.
 

I cannot understand how/why any decent human being would have even considered voting for him.

And yet, there are plenty of people I know who ARE decent, hardworking human beings. They are 100% wrong about anything and everything they thought Trump would do for them or our country or the world.
So at what point is it ok to ridicule the opinion of someone who clearly isn’t reaching their political opinions through reasoned discourse? Am I supposed to respect the opinion of some who is actively ignoring reality? Who chooses ignorance over honest introspection? I understand that there are plenty of hard-working, nice, good people out there with giant gaping holes in their ability to think logically when it comes to politics. And I understand that admonishing them for that likely isn’t going to Change their minds, more likely to make them more entrenched. But that’s not a good reason to not point out how ridiculous they are being.
 
Really? Look at the shit being flung at me because I said that conservatives want mostly the same things liberals want.
Who's flinging shit at you? People are disagreeing with you and explaining why and being quite civil. That isn't flinging shit.
 

I cannot understand how/why any decent human being would have even considered voting for him.

And yet, there are plenty of people I know who ARE decent, hardworking human beings. They are 100% wrong about anything and everything they thought Trump would do for them or our country or the world.
So at what point is it ok to ridicule the opinion of someone who clearly isn’t reaching their political opinions through reasoned discourse? Am I supposed to respect the opinion of some who is actively ignoring reality? Who chooses ignorance over honest introspection? I understand that there are plenty of hard-working, nice, good people out there with giant gaping holes in their ability to think logically when it comes to politics. And I understand that admonishing them for that likely isn’t going to Change their minds, more likely to make them more entrenched. But that’s not a good reason to not point out how ridiculous they are being.
I grew up with a father who very closely resembled a rural version of Archie Bunker. We disagreed about almost anything related to politics. The only small but of overlap was because he had daughters and he wanted all of his children to have access to things he could never have dreamed of achieving. So while from my male classmates abd an occasional teacher, I heard a constant stream of ‘girls can’t do math/play sports/blahblablah, at home, I heard nothing but: You can do anything you want if you’re willing to work hard for it—something that my parents never heard, and frankly something that was not really true for them.

It got worse as we both grew older. In fact, Dad had been dead a number of years before I learned that he tried out some of his racist crap on my adolescent kids. Out of my hearing, or my husband’s. Dad was not dumb. When my kids were really young, he made some vaguely anti-Semitic remark when I was down without my husband and I very matter of fact my informed him that my husband’s grandfather was Jewish, which meant his grandchildren were part Jewish and if that was a problem to just let me know. He’d never have to see any of them again. It was understood that I was part of that package deal. I never heard another word because he knew I was not kidding.

That said, I never saw my father treat anyone with less than respect and courtesy, no matter where they were from or what color their skin or what language they spoke. In his late 60’s, he even managed to pick up some Spanish from the crew who re-roofed his house and was very proud of himself when he could use a small bit with them. He was a very smart man who always wanted to learn more—but the circumstances of his life limited what he could achieve and stunted his world view. In most respects, he was intelligent, curious, funny, honest, hardworking and respected these qualities in others. Even those belonging to groups he wasn’t fond of.

Because it really is so much easier to demonize a group than it is an individual that you know works hard, is honest and as fair as they can be.

About most things. Because, unfortunately, we are all only human and all of us have shortcomings and blind spots and prejudices and limitations of our patience and understanding.

So y’all can throw out as many memes as you like. I’m just shaking my head at what weak stuff ‘my side ’ seems to be made of if they are not willing to look for common ground,

I will leave you with this, from Lincoln’s first inaugural address:

“The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely, they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”

I hope we, even those of us who are skeptics and atheists learn to look for our better angels -and those of those we disagree with.

I am in no way suggesting that we should reconsider that it is ok to impose racial segregation, teach religion in schools or force people whose sexuality or identity makes us uncomfortable into hiding or refuse to allow women to make medical decisions for themselves.

I’m saying that there’s a lot we all have in common, a lot of shared goals. We need to focus on that, and build upon that.

If we don’t, it won’t matter very much who wins the next election. We will have lost our country.
 
Really? Look at the shit being flung at me because I said that conservatives want mostly the same things liberals want.
Who's flinging shit at you? People are disagreeing with you and explaining why and being quite civil. That isn't flinging shit.
Nobody’s being very civil.

And let’s be clear: they are t disagreeing with me because I agree with conservative taking points. They are disagreeing with me because I dare to suggest that conservatives hold some of the same core values as liberals and that our country would be better served if we remember our shared values and build upon common ground.

I am not really supposed to think of conservatives as anything other than ignorant inbred mouth breathing bigoted idiots.

I was raised to think for myself.
 
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