What has conservatism given America?

[lostone]

Trump is the front man, the preacher whose function is to rile people up; McConnell, McCarthy et al are the men in the back quietly picking your pockets for the benefit of Koch and the rest of the billionaire class.

 

[Bomb#20]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's?

Rather like the cheerleaders taking credit when the other side fumbles the ball and loses the big game.

Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Not to discount all the non-pinko-commies such as Lech Walesa who helped the process along, but the main reason for the rapid collapse was that the Soviet politburo system mistakenly allowed supreme power to fall into the hands of a pinko commie who against all odds was not a bastard, but a decent human being, so he wasn't willing to perpetrate the level of violence against his own people it took to hold onto that power.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's?

Rather like the cheerleaders taking credit when the other side fumbles the ball and loses the big game.

Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Not to discount all the non-pinko-commies such as Lech Walesa who helped the process along, but the main reason for the rapid collapse was that the Soviet politburo system mistakenly allowed supreme power to fall into the hands of a pinko commie who against all odds was not a bastard, but a decent human being, so he wasn't willing to perpetrate the level of violence against his own people it took to hold onto that power.

Come on, comrade Bomb. We all know Sylvester Stallone and Ronnie Raygun took down the USSR and the Berlin Wall.

 

[Elixir]

We all know Sylvester Stallone and Ronnie Raygun took down the USSR and the Berlin Wall.

Yeah, they looked at it funny and told Gorby to take down that wall, and down it came. And now it’s turning into the very same top heavy piece of shit that it was when the wall came down and Pootey was holed up in the Berlin Soviet HQ.

 

[Bomb#20]

Come on, comrade Bomb. We all know Sylvester Stallone and Ronnie Raygun took down the USSR and the Berlin Wall.

If I were any sort of artist, I'd draw Reagan in a cheerleader outfit waving his pompoms while the wall came down behind him.

(The irony is that the USSR would have probably lasted a lot longer if Gorby hadn't been a pinko commie. He knew their system didn't work but he didn't understand why, and even after its seventy years of misery he was still a sincere pinko -- he believed in the moral righteousness of communism -- so he needed an explanation for why half the food rotted between the harvest and the shop shelves that didn't involve Marx being fundamentally wrong about how economics works. But of course the USSR wasn't just communist, but also massively corrupt, so Gorby assumed the corruption was the problem and started a massive anticorruption campaign. Turned out corruption was all that was keeping the economy limping along.)

 

[ZiprHead]

I think it is weasaly, but he isn't actually wrong when he does this.

How liberal and progressive!
It is weasely to use words as though they have meaning.
Like the OP, @ZiprHead.

Apparently here in the modern world, if the meaning of a word doesn't suit your ideology then you just flip it to mean what you prefer that it means. It's quite Orwellian, turning Trump's Wall into Conservativism. The USA has been "This Nation of Immigrants" since before there was an official USA. The Wall is a newfangled attempt to end our old tradition. That's not conservative by any standard except modern Orwellian "Words mean what I want them to mean, for my own ideological purposes."

That sounds really progressive to me.
Tom

Our tradition was always that certain people weren't welcome. Irish, Chinese, Jews, Moslems (that tradition brought back by Trump), black people unless they are slaves. Our tradition has always been "those" people aren't welcome, despite what that French bitch in the New York harbor has to say.

 

[Bomb#20]

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there?

Yes, a great deal has changed.

Not all dictatorships are the same. Stalin's rule was one of strict authority; There were laws (written and unwritten), and while some may have been impossible to avoid breaking, a person who obeyed the laws and toed the line was basically safe.

Um, quick question: what planet are you on? Stalin was a paranoid homicidal maniac. For the love of god, the man had execution quotas! People were arrested at random just to meet the quotas, or to terrorize the population. And in addition to Ukrainians, 250,000 more were shot for being of some other suspect ethnicity.

 

[TomC]

Our tradition was always

I suppose that, as a WASPy heterosexual male with money, you feel entitled to announce what "our" tradition always was.

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Our tradition was always

I suppose that, as a WASPy heterosexual male with money, you feel entitled to announce what "our" tradition always was.

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?
Tom

Wrong. History announces what our tradition always was.

 

[TomC]

Our tradition was always

I suppose that, as a WASPy heterosexual male with money, you feel entitled to announce what "our" tradition always was.

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?
Tom

Wrong. History announces what our tradition always was.

"History"?

You mean the story written by the victors?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Our tradition was always

I suppose that, as a WASPy heterosexual male with money, you feel entitled to announce what "our" tradition always was.

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?
Tom

Wrong. History announces what our tradition always was.

"History"?

You mean the story written by the victors?
Tom

If you think the history I described is wrong you should disprove it with facts instead of being insulting.

 

[Elixir]

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?

I think the standard answer is “me!”.

 

[TomC]

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?

I think the standard answer is “me!”.

That appears to be the answer I got.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Who better to explain what 'Murica stands for?

I think the standard answer is “me!”.

That appears to be the answer I got.
Tom

Actually that sounds like your answer.

Instead of making half-assed statements about others. how about actually making an intelligent and fact based argument for your position?

 

[TomC]

Instead of making half-assed statements about others. how about actually making an intelligent and fact based argument for your position?

The word "conservatism", as used in the OP, is worse than meaningless.
It's a misuse of a word for ideological purposes. It's turning a word around to serve what you want people to believe.

Whatever you, ZiprHead, don't like is "conservative". Whatever you like is "progressive". It positively Orwellian the way you change the words around.

50 year old policies are progressive. Ending old traditions, older than this country itself, is conservative.

Sorry dude. If you can't explain what you mean by "conservatism" more clearly than "stuff I don't like", we can't have an intelligent conversation on the subject.
Tom

 

[bilby]

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there?

Yes, a great deal has changed.

Not all dictatorships are the same. Stalin's rule was one of strict authority; There were laws (written and unwritten), and while some may have been impossible to avoid breaking, a person who obeyed the laws and toed the line was basically safe.

Um, quick question: what planet are you on? Stalin was a paranoid homicidal maniac. For the love of god, the man had execution quotas! People were arrested at random just to meet the quotas, or to terrorize the population. And in addition to Ukrainians, 250,000 more were shot for being of some other suspect ethnicity.

Sure, but being of the wrong ethnicity was against the law, so they were failing to obey the law (albeit a law that it was impossible to avoid breaking).

 

[ZiprHead]

Instead of making half-assed statements about others. how about actually making an intelligent and fact based argument for your position?

The word "conservatism", as used in the OP, is worse than meaningless.
It's a misuse of a word for ideological purposes. It's turning a word around to serve what you want people to believe.

Whatever you, ZiprHead, don't like is "conservative". Whatever you like is "progressive". It positively Orwellian the way you change the words around.

50 year old policies are progressive. Ending old traditions, older than this country itself, is conservative.

Sorry dude. If you can't explain what you mean by "conservatism" more clearly than "stuff I don't like", we can't have an intelligent conversation on the subject.
Tom

That's a lot of words to convey straight up bullshit. Your semantic argument is just a waste of time.

 

[TomC]

That's a lot of words to convey straight up bullshit. Your semantic argument is just a waste of time.

How liberal and progressive of you to say.

"I don't want to use the words with meaning. I just want to use them as partisan epithets."

I'll stop oppressing you with language.
Tom

 

[Ford]

We all know Sylvester Stallone and Ronnie Raygun took down the USSR and the Berlin Wall.

Yeah, they looked at it funny and told Gorby to take down that wall, and down it came. And now it’s turning into the very same top heavy piece of shit that it was when the wall came down and Pootey was holed up in the Berlin Soviet HQ.

I'm just wondering why there are still people using words like "pinko" and "commie" unironically. What year is it?

 

[Bomb#20]

I'm just wondering why there are still people using words like "pinko" and "commie" unironically. What year is it?

If you're talking about thebeave and me, we were using them for humorous effect. Did you miss the ?