What has conservatism given America?

[Loren Pechtel]

So you think affirmative action is a zero-sum game? This is utter bullshit as usual from right-wingers, who also conveniently ignore legacy admissions in colleges that almost universally favor white people. Stop whining. White people put people of color under the boot for practically the entire history of this country, and still do whenever they are able to get away with it.

Well, duh, it has to be zero sum! Affirmative action is inherently discrimination and thus inherently a bad thing. When it was implemented it was almost certainly the least bad choice at the time--and it worked very well. It broke the back of organized discrimination. The thing is, it's done it's job and now it comes with just as much harm but far, far less benefit and perhaps even no benefit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

fascism

făsh′ĭz″əm

noun​

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator,

Lets weaponize the law with the FBI to get rid of another political opponent.

1) Your side was the one that weaponized it to get His Flatulence elected.

2) What we are seeing now is not weaponization, but simply justice catching up with his misdeeds. We've been telling you he did wrong, now we are seeing the prosecutors bringing the charges on what we have talked about for years.

91 indictments right before a POTUS election? And look at the timing and location of the trials (where they voted 90% Biden) Loren.

You realize the fake electors would inherently be in blue locations?? And the New York stuff would be from his actions in New York? Just like the classified documents stuff is from him in Florida. He has no reason to commit dirty deeds in places he isn't and which will vote for him.

Today the absence of law in the United States government presents the United States to the world as an insane asylum in which either American voters are so incompetent as to elect and reelect a hardened criminal to the Presidency (hardly a recommendation for democracy) or the Democrats are so lawless that they will not permit an honest election to keep them from power and, therefore, weaponize law in order to destroy their political opponent.

No matter which side you prefer its getting embarrassing IMO. And no matter which side your ideology, you can not deny the Democrats are turning the US into a "Banana Republic".

In 2016 most people didn't realize how much of a criminal he was. He wasn't elected in 2020. You would be right if we elect him in 2024--we would be showing that we had gone nuts. I don't see how you're attacking the Democrats, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1. a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls,

Lets make sure we direct Twitter and other Facebook monopolies cancel what we do not want the public to hear

No. Nobody tried to do that. What they tried to do is stop them from saying things known to be false.

I would recommend you inform yourself better. The FBI was clearly doing much more than that.

1) He's hardly a credible source.

2) More generally--public congressional hearings are far more political chest-thumping than serious inquiry.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not sure what Tom said about this, but I’d say the Democratic Party needs to resurrect FDR, Truman, and LBJ (minus Vietnam). Based on your posts, I feel certain that you would oppose the old Democratic Party even more strongly than you do the current version.

I'm not sure either.
But I think he's referring to an opinion I've expressed several times, long before this thread.
The Democrats have moved a long way toward the right. I first started noticing it in the 90s under Clinton. They are now the center right party. That used to be the Republicans.
I believe it's a result of that that the GOP has gone into extremist territory. La la land, IMHO.
Tom

I think you have the cart before the horse. The GOP went batshit, the Democrats have picked up the sane Republicans.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I love this Orwellian idea that the people who tried to overturn the goverment and stop a duly elected president from being certified and sworn in are “dissenters.” Oh, so nicely sanitized! I suppose someone who murders black people because they are black, which happens appallingly often and just happened again a couple of days ago, are also “dissenters.” Dissenters against what? Surely they are not racist psychos. That’s so harsh! No, in good Orwellian fashion, we shall call them “dissenters against woke ideology, BLM and Antifa.”

It was not an insurrection either, it was simply a protest with some violent elements. If this was really an insurrection like the Democrats claim, ask yourself what really would have happened even if they had been successful stopping congress? Not much. Biden would still be president, they just would have had to do a little more due process with the vote counting before he was sworn in.

Pay more attention!!!

What happened if they succeeded? The election gets thrown to the house--where it's one state one vote. His Flatulence takes power by coup.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

I think the primary blame there is the copy machine and the fax machine.

 

[Toni]

fascism

făsh′ĭz″əm

noun​

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator,

Lets weaponize the law with the FBI to get rid of another political opponent.

1) Your side was the one that weaponized it to get His Flatulence elected.

2) What we are seeing now is not weaponization, but simply justice catching up with his misdeeds. We've been telling you he did wrong, now we are seeing the prosecutors bringing the charges on what we have talked about for years.

91 indictments right before a POTUS election? And look at the timing and location of the trials (where they voted 90% Biden) Loren.

You realize the fake electors would inherently be in blue locations?? And the New York stuff would be from his actions in New York? Just like the classified documents stuff is from him in Florida. He has no reason to commit dirty deeds in places he isn't and which will vote for him.

Today the absence of law in the United States government presents the United States to the world as an insane asylum in which either American voters are so incompetent as to elect and reelect a hardened criminal to the Presidency (hardly a recommendation for democracy) or the Democrats are so lawless that they will not permit an honest election to keep them from power and, therefore, weaponize law in order to destroy their political opponent.

No matter which side you prefer its getting embarrassing IMO. And no matter which side your ideology, you can not deny the Democrats are turning the US into a "Banana Republic".

In 2016 most people didn't realize how much of a criminal he was. He wasn't elected in 2020. You would be right if we elect him in 2024--we would be showing that we had gone nuts. I don't see how you're attacking the Democrats, though.

Anybody who had paid even a tiny bit of attention knew he was a self centered misanthropic, misogynist racist cheat who failed to honor contracts he negotiated, left workers unpaid, employed undocumented workers, cheated on his wives and was plausibly accused of sexual assault by multiple women.

 

[thebeave]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

I think the primary blame there is the copy machine and the fax machine.

'splain, Lucy.

 

[lostone]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there? China still has Communism, as do Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. So communism is far from dead. The Russian Empire is gone, but Russia still is trying to rebuild it, and has forged an alliance in BRICS. .

 

[TomC]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

I think the primary blame there is the copy machine and the fax machine.

'splain, Lucy.

I'm not Loren. And I think he's overstating the case.
But what those machines did was make it vastly more difficult for authoritarian governments to control information. That really was a game changer in human history.
It all got even more spectacular with the internet.

Tom

 

[thebeave]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there? China still has Communism, as do Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. So communism is far from dead. The Russian Empire is gone, but Russia still is trying to rebuild it, and has forged an alliance in BRICS. .

Well, I never said it was dead, but it is really a shell of what it once was, particularly in Eastern Europe. The demise of communism has really come a long way since the early days. At least we don't have those "tuck your head under your desk and kiss your ass goodbye" drills anymore.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there? China still has Communism, as do Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. So communism is far from dead. The Russian Empire is gone, but Russia still is trying to rebuild it, and has forged an alliance in BRICS. .

Well, I never said it was dead, but it is really a shell of what it once was, particularly in Eastern Europe. The demise of communism has really come a long way since the early days. At least we don't have those "tuck your head under your desk and kiss your ass goodbye" drills anymore.

Don't schools do active shooter drills?

 

[thebeave]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there? China still has Communism, as do Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. So communism is far from dead. The Russian Empire is gone, but Russia still is trying to rebuild it, and has forged an alliance in BRICS. .

Well, I never said it was dead, but it is really a shell of what it once was, particularly in Eastern Europe. The demise of communism has really come a long way since the early days. At least we don't have those "tuck your head under your desk and kiss your ass goodbye" drills anymore.

Don't schools do active shooter drills?

I presume so. I don't have kids or follow what schools are doing these days with regard to drills. But, yeah, it seems we have traded one poison for another.

 

[Ford]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there? China still has Communism, as do Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. So communism is far from dead. The Russian Empire is gone, but Russia still is trying to rebuild it, and has forged an alliance in BRICS. .

Well, I never said it was dead, but it is really a shell of what it once was, particularly in Eastern Europe. The demise of communism has really come a long way since the early days. At least we don't have those "tuck your head under your desk and kiss your ass goodbye" drills anymore.

Yeah, China is communist in name only. Vietnam is headed in the same direction. Laos, NK and Cuba are still trying, but international communism (a worldwide revolution) is all but dead.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Can conservatism take credit for the rapid collapse of communism back in the late '80's and early '90's? Some might say that was a good thing for the world (though I know many of you pinko commie bastards would disagree ).

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there? China still has Communism, as do Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. So communism is far from dead. The Russian Empire is gone, but Russia still is trying to rebuild it, and has forged an alliance in BRICS. .

Well, I never said it was dead, but it is really a shell of what it once was, particularly in Eastern Europe. The demise of communism has really come a long way since the early days. At least we don't have those "tuck your head under your desk and kiss your ass goodbye" drills anymore.

Don't schools do active shooter drills?

I presume so. I don't have kids or follow what schools are doing these days with regard to drills. But, yeah, it seems we have traded one poison for another.

So, your answer to the question "what has conservatism given america" is tuck-your-head-under-your-desk-for-the-nukes and then later on active shooter drills.

 

[bilby]

Russia still has a dictatorship, that kills its political enemies, and just like in Stalin's time, they still are killing Ukrainians, so has much of anything really changed there?

Yes, a great deal has changed.

Not all dictatorships are the same. Stalin's rule was one of strict authority; There were laws (written and unwritten), and while some may have been impossible to avoid breaking, a person who obeyed the laws and toed the line was basically safe.

Putin's Russia is not like that. Nobody can be safe in Putin's Russia, not even Putin himself. Russian today is run as the world's largest organised crime syndicate. Anyone can do anything, as long as they don't annoy someone who has the physical strength to destroy them, and the psychopathic nature to use overwhelming and excessive violence at the slightest provocation.

Life in Russia today is more like Prohibition era America would have been if Al Capone had been President.

Stalin cared deeply about Russia, and wanted to control the lives of every Russian in order to shape the country into what he thought it should be. Putin doesn't give a shit, as long as he personally gets wealth and power.

Stalin wanted Russia to be a great nation, and thought that he, personally, could make that happen. Putin wants Putin to be a great person, and thinks that Russia, collectively, can make that happen.

 

[Gospel]

The comparative virtues of Stalin's Russia and Putin's Russia are subjective. In my view, they are fundamentally alike with one operating covertly while the other overtly.

 

[Elixir]

What actual data is there that challenges the integrity of the election? All of the challenges to the integrity of election are unproven (to date) allegations. Allegations are not data.

A lot! People are saying. Many people. They're saying that. The allegations are through the roof! There have never been so many allegations! You don't know the half of it because the insane Jack Smith has us gagged. But there are plenty of problems because I WON! And now the corrupt liberal fascist crt agenda is turning it all around and blaming YOUR FAVORITE PRESIDENT - MEEEEeeeeee!!!!

He has no reason to commit dirty deeds in places he isn't and which will vote for him.

How this escapes trump apologists is a mystery. The RW chorus continues to point to the fact that Trump's crimes are called to account in blue areas as if that means blue areas like to pick on poor Trump. The bleevers cannot imagine that it's because Trump commits crimes in blue areas.

 

[Patooka]

I would recommend you inform yourself better. The FBI was clearly doing much more than that.

Are you absolutely certain you want to revisit how thoroughly debunked your bullshit accusations about the FBI were? Or how completely full of shit Taibbi is?

I mean, we can if you want...

 

[Elixir]

So I get what ya'll are saying about conservatism being a brake on progressiveness. That is what it STOPS giving. and I love that answer - It's like "what good would an action movie be without a bad guy"?

GN nails it IMHO.
Maybe it’s a necessary evil, but it gives cover for a hell of a lot of unnecessary evil.

I am also interested in hearing what conservativism uniquely has provided in gains.

+1