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Houthis turn pirate

I don't know what Derec thinks about the tarring and feathering of disliked government officials by pre-independence North American colonists, or what he thinks about pre-independence Zionist militias Irgun and Lehi.

I prefer a neutral use of the word terrorism, rather than to say that terrorism is only what people I dislike do. Doing so is what gives rise to the saying that "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter".
Terrorism: Attacking civilians for the purpose of causing political change.

It requires both attacking (not merely by accident hitting) civilians and it requires a political objective--a mass shooter isn't a terrorist. But McVeigh was because his intent was to trigger an uprising. And I would call His Flatulence a terrorist due to his threats to those who are acting to hinder him.
 
And while I would not call Sherman's march to be terrorism I would consider it a war crime.
of course you wouldn’t, but it was terrorism.


I am simply giving you the standard criteria for distinguishing whether something is a legitimate military act or not. I do not claim originality on any of that.
Those are not standard criteria based on consistent moral standards.
 
We interrupt this etymology derail to bring you some on-topic news.
Houthis have attacked a US-owned cargo ship.
Houthi rebels strike a U.S.-owned ship off the coast of Yemen in the Gulf of Aden, raising tensions

Time for US/Biden to hit them harder. Obviously they have not gotten the message yet, so they need some remedial instruction.
Including command and control centers. Why shouldn't Houthi brass feel the pain too?

Time for some warheads on foreheads!

Do you think this will deter them? Our stand-off strikes destroy some of their capability but not all, not even close. In the meantime it gives the Houthis the prestige of standing up to the US. They know there will be no serious commitment on our part. The US public isn't ready for some trillion dollar commitment. It's too soon for that.
And it all comes back to our one big colossal mistake: Israel.
 
The ongoing discussion about intervening in Yemen is quite unrealistic. Saudi Arabia engaged in extensive military actions against Yemen for an extended period, which ultimately led to the need for compromises. It's evident that the United States has limited influence over the situation in Yemen, despite the common perception of Yemen's military as technologically and tactically inferior.

What we gonna do next? Get Saudi back in the fight? Israel sure does know how to bring peace in the middle east. What a great investment.
 
Do you think this will deter them? Our stand-off strikes destroy some of their capability but not all, not even close.
Absolutely, depending on the strikes. Of course, we cannot destroy all launchers or missiles. Loren pointed that out too.
But if you hit enough of Houthi targets, you make it very painful for them to continue with their attacks on shipping. At some point, the damage will threaten their gains in the Yemeni civil war.
Now, of course, it depends on how much the Biden administration is willing to escalate. I do not think strikes like this go far enough.
US attacks Houthi anti-ship missiles, vessel hit in Red Sea
Just hitting the anti-ship missiles is not enough, and will not deter the Houthis. We need to hit Houthi forces themselves - including those not directly involved in the piracy. We need to hit command and control. As I said, warheads on foreheads, not just warheads on other warheads.
With redesignating Houthis as a terrorist organization, Biden administration is also imposing a half measure.
Biden administration expected to re-designate Houthis as a global terrorist entity
Houthis should never have been dedesignated, but even now Biden is not willing to go all the way.
CNN said:
The Biden administration is expected to re-designate the Houthis as a specially designated global terrorist (SDGT) entity amid continued attacks by the Yemen-based militia, a source familiar told CNN Tuesday.[...]The administration removed the Houthis’ SDGT designation and de-listed it as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO) in February 2021, after it was designated by the Trump administration in its final weeks.[...]
As of Tuesday, the administration was not reimposing the FTO designation.
Both the SDGT and FTO designations trigger an asset freeze, but only an FTO designation imposes immigration restrictions on members, according to the State Department. The SDGT designation also does not impose sanctions on those who provide “material support” to the group.
It just shows the inappropriate timendes of the Biden administration where decisiveness is needed.
In the meantime it gives the Houthis the prestige of standing up to the US.
They had that prestige while they were terrorizing shipping with US doing hardly anything. Worst thing is to do nothing in the face of naked aggression.
They know there will be no serious commitment on our part.
And they should be taught otherwise. Unfortunately you may be right that Biden is unwilling to do what needs to be done.
The US public isn't ready for some trillion dollar commitment. It's too soon for that.
It will not take anywhere close to a trillion to damage the Houthis enough to convince them to cease and desist. I am not saying put boots on the ground and occupy the place for the next 20 years. I am saying bomb Houthi forces and leadership.
As far as being "too soon", that is penny-wise and pound foolish. Or to mix my metaphors and units of measure, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The more we do nothing, the more our enemies are emboldened, and the more it will cost in the end.
And it all comes back to our one big colossal mistake: Israel.
I know you hate Israel for some reason. I, obviously, disagree. Israel wasn't a mistake. Letting Iran fall to the theocratic regime was a colossal mistake though. Carter's UN ambassador Andrew Young thought Khomeini was a "saint" while France gave him aid and comfort while he planned his coup. Talk about an epic failure of foresight! Btw, Andrew Young is still alive and still talking nonsense.
 
Well, sometimes.

Some terrorists are fighting for freedom.
Examples? Sure, plenty of terrorists have been fighting for independence, or home rule, or to get oppressors to leave, or whatever. But freedom? Not so much. Which terrorists ever intended to give up power and/or respect human rights after winning their armed struggles?
The IRA?

Certainly there were a few particularly extreme individuals who refused to do so, and/or who refused to accept victory without the return of the six counties to rule from Dublin; But the vast majority of the IRA did exactly that after winning the concessions in the Good Friday Agreement.
But the IRA lost. The majority of the IRA agreed to give up their weapons and stop fighting without achieving their war aim, and recognized the right of the NI people to stay in the UK unless they voted to join the RoI. Sure they won concessions, but that just means the GFA was a negotiated surrender. Point being, losing generally makes people more willing to compromise. Would the IRA still have willingly given up power and respected human rights if they'd won?
The GFA works because under it, neither side lost.

Neither got everything they ever wanted; But both are better off than they were before the agreement was made.

The IRA didn't lose. They just didn't win, and had to make do with what they got.

Bear in mind that prior to the IRA, the entire island of Ireland was a British posession. The existence of an Irish Republic is evidence that the IRA didn't lose.
 
Do you think this will deter them? Our stand-off strikes destroy some of their capability but not all, not even close.
Absolutely, depending on the strikes. Of course, we cannot destroy all launchers or missiles. Loren pointed that out too.
But if you hit enough of Houthi targets, you make it very painful for them to continue with their attacks on shipping. At some point, the damage will threaten their gains in the Yemeni civil war.
Yeah, perhaps this. Something I hadn't considered.
 
Do you think this will deter them? Our stand-off strikes destroy some of their capability but not all, not even close.
Absolutely, depending on the strikes. Of course, we cannot destroy all launchers or missiles. Loren pointed that out too.
But if you hit enough of Houthi targets, you make it very painful for them to continue with their attacks on shipping. At some point, the damage will threaten their gains in the Yemeni civil war.
Yeah, perhaps this. Something I hadn't considered.
Then again, we might consider backing away and see what happens. I've been watching Ukraine since US funding to help execute the war against the Russians invaders has dried up. EU looks to be doing their best to fill the gaps. Even Orbán is looking to see his way clear to advancing the 55B EU aid package he initially blocked. The US should be keeping it's powder dry for potential future conflict with larger adversaries. My understanding is Xi isn't exactly thrilled with Taiwan's election results.
 
It will not take anywhere close to a trillion to damage the Houthis enough to convince them to cease and desist. I am not saying put boots on the ground and occupy the place for the next 20 years. I am saying bomb Houthi forces and leadership.

The Saudi-led military intervention did substantial damage to the military capabilities of the Houthi rebels, yet it did not lead to a decisive military victory. And they live right next door. As such, The US bombing Houthi forces and leadership likely won't buy anymore than a few months of silence. You do know Iran is chillin right around the block too right? Think there is any chance of intercepting support without things further escalating into broader conflicts in the region over a stupid decision to plant Jews in Palestine?
 
I've come across a bizarre rumor, that Ansar Allah / Ansarullah / the Houthi rebels plan to shut down all three main aquatic choke points in the Middle East, in what they call the Al-Aqsa Triangle. These choke points are the Bab al Mandab / el Mandeb strait, the Suez Canal, and the Strait of Hormuz.

Hamas called its Oct-7 attack on Israel the Al-Aqsa Flood.

Both actions are named after the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, a mosque on the site of the Jewish First and Second Temples on the Temple Mount.

Of these choke points, the Houthis effectively have a lock on the Bab el Mandeb, but the other two will be much more difficult.

About the Suez Canal, the Ever Given accident shows how easy it is to block it. Sink a big ship in it and it will become unusable. But I'm sure that if there is a hint of Houthi sabotage, then the Egyptian authorities will insist on inspecting every ship that is to go through the canal. Air defense should be relatively straightforward, and it's doubtful that the Houthi armed forces can get their missile launchers very close to that canal, because they don't seem to have much of a navy, and it's doubtful that they can find any nearby territory whose rules are friendly to them.

The distance between Bab el Mandeb and the Suez Canal is 2,200 km / 1,300 mi, and between the northern border of Yemen and the canal 1,900 km / 1,200 mi.

Turning to the Strait of Hormuz, its distance from western Yemen is 1,600 km / 1,000 mi as the cruise missile flies, and 2,700 km / 1,700 mi by sea.

I doubt that Iran will want to close the Strait of Hormuz, because doing so risks war with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates, because closing that strait threatens their economic lifeblood.

Interdicting Israel-bound ships may be difficult because it may be easy to launder an oil delivery through some other countries along the way.
 
Jordan denies existence of 'land bridge' to Israel to bypass Houthis - The Jerusalem Post - DECEMBER 17, 2023 12:56 - "The land route is cheaper and faster than sea transport at the moment."
The Jordanian Transportation Ministry denied reports that a land route for shipments from the Persian Gulf to Israel, in order to bypass the Houthi blockade, had been established passing through Jordan on Saturday, according to Jordan's state news agency.

On Saturday, Walla reported that a pilot for a new land route for trucks to travel from the ports in Dubai through Saudi Arabia and Jordan to Israel had been completed successfully, and that the first ten trucks of the initiative had completed the route.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan help circumvent Houthi threat - 01.20.24 | 22:23 - "Companies unload cargo in Bahrain, Dubai ports where they are loaded on Saudi Arabian and Jordanian trucks and make their way to the Israel-Jordan border"

Israel plans to transport goods from India via UAE to bypass Houthi attacks - 22.01.2024 - "Tensions escalate in Red Sea amid Houthi attacks on commercial ships suspected of having links with Israel"
 
More Houthi attacks.
Houthis attack British-linked tanker Marlin Luanda in Gulf of Aden

So far, Biden has been too timid. Even the attacks inside Yemen amounted to "shooting the quiver" (i.e. drones and missiles on the ground) instead of shooting the archers and those giving orders to the archers.
Biden needs to authorize heavy attacks on Houthi forces and material, including command and control.

This timidity extends beyond Yemen. Like the attack in Jordan that killed three US soldiers. Hopefully that wakes him up.
 
More Houthi attacks.
Houthis attack British-linked tanker Marlin Luanda in Gulf of Aden

So far, Biden has been too timid. Even the attacks inside Yemen amounted to "shooting the quiver" (i.e. drones and missiles on the ground) instead of shooting the archers and those giving orders to the archers.
Biden needs to authorize heavy attacks on Houthi forces and material, including command and control.

This timidity extends beyond Yemen. Like the attack in Jordan that killed three US soldiers. Hopefully that wakes him up.
He should ask congress for the authority and funding.
 
should ask congress for the authority and funding.

What point would there be?
The pirates are allies of Iran. Iranians are allies of Russia. Trump is an ally of Russia.

The voting majority of Republicans in Congress are allies of Trump.

Therefore, Congress doesn't want to interfere with it. They can get what Putin wants while also coming up with things to blame Biden for next summer.
Win!
Tom
 
More Houthi attacks.
Houthis attack British-linked tanker Marlin Luanda in Gulf of Aden

So far, Biden has been too timid. Even the attacks inside Yemen amounted to "shooting the quiver" (i.e. drones and missiles on the ground) instead of shooting the archers and those giving orders to the archers.
Biden needs to authorize heavy attacks on Houthi forces and material, including command and control.

This timidity extends beyond Yemen. Like the attack in Jordan that killed three US soldiers. Hopefully that wakes him up.
He should ask congress for the authority and funding.
Unfortunately, they are too bogged down going after Hunter. They have a hard time simply passing a budget or putting together a border bill. Not sure if they could handle national defense work.
 
More Houthi attacks.
Houthis attack British-linked tanker Marlin Luanda in Gulf of Aden

So far, Biden has been too timid. Even the attacks inside Yemen amounted to "shooting the quiver" (i.e. drones and missiles on the ground) instead of shooting the archers and those giving orders to the archers.
Biden needs to authorize heavy attacks on Houthi forces and material, including command and control.

This timidity extends beyond Yemen. Like the attack in Jordan that killed three US soldiers. Hopefully that wakes him up.
He should ask congress for the authority and funding.
Unfortunately, they are too bogged down going after Hunter. They have a hard time simply passing a budget or putting together a border bill. Not sure if they could handle national defense work.
That’s my point. Biden can make political hay out of some public request of the Do Nothing Party. It's an election year. Should Biden engage in the usual knee-jerk response, pushing the US deeper into conflict now? The Houthis are the world's problem. This is affecting all who ship through the Suez Canal. It hurts buyers and sellers alike and is yet another reason for near-shoring. The attack on the US outpost does deserve a response but it need not be immediate. Biden can shame congress first. He can always give a star-spangled response later in the year.
 
Exclusive: China presses Iran to rein in Houthi attacks in Red Sea, sources say | Reuters
"Basically, China says: 'If our interests are harmed in any way, it will impact our business with Tehran. So tell the Houthis to show restraint'," said one Iranian official briefed on the talks, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity.

The attacks, which the Houthis say are in support of Palestinians in Gaza, have raised the cost of shipping and insurance by disrupting a key trade route between Asia and Europe used widely by ships from China.

The Chinese officials, however, did not make any specific comments or threats about how Beijing's trading relationship with Iran could be affected if its interests were damaged by Houthi attacks, the four Iranian sources said.
Instead of going through the Red Sea to get to Europe, ships now have to go all the way around Africa, meaning a longer trip.

I think that this could help improve relations between the US and Iran, because both nations have an obstreperous-ally problem, and the nations' officials could commiserate about that.
 
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