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A Biden > Trump Time Capsule

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ideologyhunter

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Because this is the last full day of the reign of Joe Biden, and because we are about to usher in a rebirth of America through the miracles of mass deportations and tariffs, I thought it would be useful to post some basic stats so that we can read them at some future date and laugh at how bad the old days were. In a day not long from now, Americans will scratch their heads and wonder how we ever survived without our Leader, Donald Trump, Donaldus Magnus Regnum I, at the helm of state. Here is how the country looked on January 19, 2025 BTR (Before Trump Returned.)

GDP: $27.36 trillion (2023 stat)
Dow: 43, 487.83
NASDAQ: 19, 630.20
National Debt: $36.2 trillion
Inflation Rate: 3.2 %
Unemployment Rate: 4.1 %
Trade Deficit with China: $279.42 billion (2023 stat)
% of U.S. wealth held by top 1%: 30% (2023 stat)
% of Americans without health insurance: 8% (2023 stat, and one of the lowest uninsured rates in our history)
# of states with legal abortion: 21, plus D.C.
Ave. Price, Gallon of Gas: $3.12
Ave. Price, Dozen Eggs: $4.15
Ave. Price, Pound of Bacon: $7.31
Elon Musk, est. net worth: $433.9 billion
Donald Trump, est. net worth: $6.8 billion (very murky figure; this is ballpark est. from Forbes)
Most recent date that a U.S. President ordered a nuclear strike: August 1945
 
ideologyhunter said:
Most recent date that a U.S. President ordered a nuclear strike: August 1945
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Is it rude to point out it was a democrat president that ordered the first (and second) nuclear strikes?

Trump didn't order one the first time around so his record is still good. What makes you think he'll do one this time round?
 
Tigers! said:
ideologyhunter said:
Most recent date that a U.S. President ordered a nuclear strike: August 1945
Click to expand...
Is it rude to point out it was a democrat president that ordered the first (and second) nuclear strikes?

Trump didn't order one the first time around so his record is still good. What makes you think he'll do one this time round?
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Of course it was Truman.
Forget about Dem/Rep, this is human civilization.
As for Trump, the circumstances are more than troubling. He didn't know, in 2016, what the nuclear triad was. He asked his handlers why we had nuclear weapons, if we didn't use them. He had advisers in his first term who sometimes simply didn't act on the crazier things he said he wanted done -- remember the anonymous letter to the NYT? He practiced brinkmanship with Kim, trading threats about destroying our countries in 'fire and destruction like the world has never seen.'
This time around, he is surrounding himself with a different breed, a staff of people who have been picked for absolute, fierce loyalty. He has a SCOTUS whose disastrous ruling last year has told him that his powers are nearly absolute, beyond legal accountability.
Finally, have you watched him at all since 2015? Have you ever seen a speck of self-control in the man? He cannot control his own mouth. When it runs up his debt in the sex assault case to $88.3 million, he can't control himself. He must gratify his need to strike back and hurt his enemy. This is the last human in the fed gov you'd want in charge of nukes.
 
Tigers! said:
Shadowy Man said:
Tigers! said:
Trump didn't order one the first time around so his record is still good. What makes you think he'll do one this time round?
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Pete Hegseth?
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Maybe clutching at straws?
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The trouble we run into is when the wrong people are in charge when bad stuff happens. See 9/11 as a great example of having a weak ass President with a bunch of Cold War relics who had a beef with a dictator they formerly supported and had okayed an assassination attempt on their boss.

We saw Trump not perform all too well with Covid-19, and that was a rather easy emergency to manage. One that called for calmness and restraint. Instead we get a dystopian photo-op of him slowly walking up stairs and then taking off his mask after being hospitalized for having Covid-19... and saying doctors should look into injection of disinfectant... and the demoralizing of Fauci when he had Fauci grovel for him at a press conference.
 
It can be summarized: should someone whose mental and emotional health is unstable be put in charge of national defense?
Trump's mental health is alarmingly abnormal. Ten years of his presence in national politics has apparently numbed the country to this, but it shouldn't have. His constant, reflexive lying, the obsessive way he crafts childish names to call his opponents, the exalted way he speaks about himself and his pretended wisdom -- these are all so out of joint that, early on, before he owned the party, his Republican rivals and media conservatives were calling him out on it. Lindsey Graham called him a kook, Glenn Beck said there was good evidence to consider him a psychopath. Last year 223 mental health professionals signed a statement describing Trump's "symptoms of severe, untreatable personality disorder -- malignant narcissism" and stating that he was "grossly unfit for leadership." The American electorate, in its unwisdom, has elevated this disordered individual to head of state.
 
Indeed. The first term, there was a backstop of disgruntled, but competent enough professionals. The Trump team isn't making that mistake again. Hegseth and Gabbard?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Indeed. The first term, there was a backstop of disgruntled, but competent enough professionals. The Trump team isn't making that mistake again. Hegseth and Gabbard?
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Yup. Handpicked favorites of Vlad the Imposter.
 
Tigers! said:
Is it rude to point out it was a democrat president that ordered the first (and second) nuclear strikes?
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Just ill informed. The Dems and the Reps have swapped positions on a raft of issues since then.
Tigers! said:
Trump didn't order one the first time around so his record is still good. What makes you think he'll do one this time round?
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Trump had better advisors and staff the first time around. He fired most of them. This time around he has surrounded himself yes men with little experience doing anything but telling him how great it is. He also had another election cycle to consider.
Yeah, this time around is hugely different.
Tom
 
It's hard to predict. GDP, Dow and NASDAQ will probably all rise, in part because advisors will convince Trump to abandon the worst of his tariff plans. Debt and inflation will rise. The trade deficit with China may drop, but that's not really a good thing. Inequality will worsen of course.

Trump already has "earned" billions with his MAGACoin, or whatever it's called. (And now there's a MelaniaCoin! All of this should be highly illegal of course.) Musk will become a trillionaire before long.

More significant will be a big change in global politics. Right-wing ideologies and fascism will be increasingly common. China (with Russia and other allies) will increasingly be viewed as the #1 superpower. Debt bubbles and currency devaluations will cause a major financial collapse, but this may arrive later rather than sooner.

Tigers! said:
ideologyhunter said:
Most recent date that a U.S. President ordered a nuclear strike: August 1945
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Is it rude to point out it was a democrat president that ordered the first (and second) nuclear strikes?
Click to expand...

Truman's A-bomb strikes SAVED American lives and SAVED Japanese lives. They may have prevented the partitioning of Japan the way Korea and Germany were partitioned. A-bombs "needed" a convincing demonstration. By demonstrating A-bombs "in anger", alternate first uses (e.g. during the Korean War) have been avoided, so far.

Tigers! said:
Trump didn't order one the first time around so his record is still good. What makes you think he'll do one this time round?
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The most likely scenario I imagine -- though still very unlikely -- is that one of Trump's chums, e.g. Netanyahu or Putin, feels backed into a corner, secretly asks Trump's permission (or simply informs him) to use tactical nukes, and Trump obliges. Yes, this COULD lead to severe escalation.
 
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Biden has issued preemptive pardons to General Milley, Doctor Fauci, and the members of the January 6th commission, in order to protect them from trump's proposed revenge.
 
He also plans to repeal birthright citizenship through executive order.
 
ZiprHead said:
He also plans to repeal birthright citizenship through executive order.
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No can do. But he CAN and will certainly try to stop it by declaring the Constitution anti-American, and getting rid of it by decree.
IOW, J6 was a success, and Cheato can do whatever TF he wants.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1:​
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

So yeah, obviously the Constitution is wrong, Trump is right, and if most people don't think so, fuck 'em.
 
Wouldn't put it above this SCOTUS bench to rule an Amendment unconstitutional.

The Exec Order would be of interest as they can't say "no birthright citizenship". Needs to be a bit clearer than that to keep a lot of people from becoming without some sort of citizenship.
 
Elixir said:
ZiprHead said:
He also plans to repeal birthright citizenship through executive order.
Click to expand...
No can do. But he CAN and will certainly try to stop it by declaring the Constitution anti-American, and getting rid of it by decree.
IOW, J6 was a success, and Cheato can do whatever TF he wants.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1:​
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

So yeah, obviously the Constitution is wrong, Trump is right, and if most people don't think so, fuck 'em.
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If the Fourteenth Amendment meant anything Trump would not be where he is now.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
The Exec Order would be of interest as they can't say "no birthright citizenship". Needs to be a bit clearer than that to keep a lot of people from becoming without somemany thusands of them sort of citizenship.
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Seriously, what happens when a country wants to deport someone who lacks right of residence (or even the ability to reside) anywhere else? I know there was a cutesy Tom Hanks movie about one man in that situation, but Trump plans on creating thousands of such people. Will he bribe some large "shit-hole" country to accept them? Sell them to Saudi or Russia as slaves? Bulldoze them through the Texas Border Wall™ and wish them luck?
 
Swammerdami said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The Exec Order would be of interest as they can't say "no birthright citizenship". Needs to be a bit clearer than that to keep a lot of people from becoming without somemany thusands of them sort of citizenship.
Click to expand...

Seriously, what happens when a country wants to deport someone who lacks right of residence (or even the ability to reside) anywhere else? I know there was a cutesy Tom Hanks movie about one man in that situation, but Trump plans on creating thousands of such people. Will he bribe some large "shit-hole" country to accept them? Sell them to Saudi or Russia as slaves? Bulldoze them through the Texas Border Wall™ and wish them luck?
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Presumably the child would be a citizen of the nation of origin of the parent(s).
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Wouldn't put it above this SCOTUS bench to rule an Amendment unconstitutional.

The Exec Order would be of interest as they can't say "no birthright citizenship". Needs to be a bit clearer than that to keep a lot of people from becoming without some sort of citizenship.
Click to expand...
What I have heard from legal analysis videos is that they will declare that illegals immigrants are an invasion force and the children of invaders are not included under the birthright citizenship of the 14th amendment.

See for example:

Remember that the law is whatever the lawyers and judges decide it is.
 
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