Why the Constitution is now null and void

[Swammerdami]

Musk's illegal and brutal approach to destroying the federal government is not how democracies are supposed to work, but perhaps Mr. Vonse thinks that it is the Deep State led by Soros, Obama and Biden which was the fascist anti-democratic regime, and only a brutal coup d'état can save America.

But anyway, kudos and thanks to RVonse for answering honestly. What do other MAGA fans think of Trump-47 so far? Derec?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Our government is far too big and Musk is fixing it. This is just common sense that the Democrats (and some Rino's) do not currently have. Everything he is doing is advisory and legal.

so you are happy to no longer have a democracy then? A dictatorship that “fixes” the government more to your liking is ok?

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

Either you like democracy as messy and inefficient as it is or you don’t. It sounds like you do not want to live in a democracy.

 

[RVonse]

Our government is far too big and Musk is fixing it. This is just common sense that the Democrats (and some Rino's) do not currently have. Everything he is doing is advisory and legal.

so you are happy to no longer have a democracy then? A dictatorship that “fixes” the government more to your liking is ok?

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

Either you like democracy as messy and inefficient as it is or you don’t. It sounds like you do not want to live in a democracy.

I want to live in a Republic which unlike a democracy our founders thought we might actually survive.

A pure democracy never works out because the people soon learn to vote whatever they want until the treasury is bankrupt. Most people, when they find themselves in the downward swing of the generational cycle, become complacent and apathetic. Otherwise intelligent, educated people vainly hope for a Freedom Fairy who will appear on the scene and reverse the process (but will continue voting for politicians giving out the free stuff).

Historically, democracies have never returned to republics again. No country reverses the cycle. Historically the countries who find themselves in pure democracy must die in some kind of authoritative rule before renewal can occur.

Let us hope that Trump and Musk can get around this. And yes, if a Democrat unilaterally and genuinely attempted to limit our present bloated and burdensome over taxing regulating government I would support them too. But so far, Soros has shown no such desire. He is just an influencing billionaire the same as the rest with different ideology. In wolfs clothing but trying to look like a sheep.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Our government is far too big and Musk is fixing it. This is just common sense that the Democrats (and some Rino's) do not currently have. Everything he is doing is advisory and legal.

so you are happy to no longer have a democracy then? A dictatorship that “fixes” the government more to your liking is ok?

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

Either you like democracy as messy and inefficient as it is or you don’t. It sounds like you do not want to live in a democracy.

I want to live in a Republic which unlike a democracy our founders thought we could survive.

A pure democracy never works out because the people soon learn to vote whatever they want until the treasury is bankrupt. Most people, when they find themselves in the downward swing of the generational cycle, become complacent and apathetic. Otherwise intelligent, educated people vainly hope for a Freedom Fairy who will appear on the scene and reverse the process (but will continue giving out the free stuff).

Historically, this has never happened. No country reverses the cycle. Historically the countries who find themselves in pure democracy must die before renewal can occur.

Let us hope that Trump and Musk can get around this. And yes, if a Democrat unilaterally and genuinely attempted to limit our present bloated and burdensome over taxing regulating government I would support them too. But so far, Soros has shown no such desire. He is an equal influencing billionaire but in wolfs clothing looking like a sheep.

Musk is currently violating the law like it is going out of style, sending out his young acolytes to access any and everything they possibly could think of promising work force purges. Trump is saying he is going to ethnically cleanse Gaza to build the Middle East "Riveria". Rubio is saying the leader of El Salvador is open to taking in US citizens that are criminals.

Where in the heck do you find any possibility of optimism in that?

You clamor for conspiracy theories... yet, when the tyranny is right in your face, you want to cuddle up next to it.

 

[crazyfingers]

Our government is far too big and Musk is fixing it. This is just common sense that the Democrats (and some Rino's) do not currently have. Everything he is doing is advisory and legal.

so you are happy to no longer have a democracy then? A dictatorship that “fixes” the government more to your liking is ok?

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

Either you like democracy as messy and inefficient as it is or you don’t. It sounds like you do not want to live in a democracy.

I want to live in a Republic which unlike a democracy our founders thought we might actually survive.

A pure democracy never works out because the people soon learn to vote whatever they want until the treasury is bankrupt. Most people, when they find themselves in the downward swing of the generational cycle, become complacent and apathetic. Otherwise intelligent, educated people vainly hope for a Freedom Fairy who will appear on the scene and reverse the process (but will continue voting for politicians giving out the free stuff).

Historically, democracies have never returned to republics again. No country reverses the cycle. Historically the countries who find themselves in pure democracy must die in some kind of authoritative rule before renewal can occur.

Let us hope that Trump and Musk can get around this. And yes, if a Democrat unilaterally and genuinely attempted to limit our present bloated and burdensome over taxing regulating government I would support them too. But so far, Soros has shown no such desire. He is just an influencing billionaire the same as the rest with different ideology. In wolfs clothing but trying to look like a sheep.

That's an interesting dodge. Everyone knows that when we talk democracy, we talk about representative democracy.

Going on about how horrible a pure democracy would be is a red herring.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Our government is far too big and Musk is fixing it. This is just common sense that the Democrats (and some Rino's) do not currently have. Everything he is doing is advisory and legal.

so you are happy to no longer have a democracy then? A dictatorship that “fixes” the government more to your liking is ok?

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

Either you like democracy as messy and inefficient as it is or you don’t. It sounds like you do not want to live in a democracy.

I want to live in a Republic which unlike a democracy our founders thought we might actually survive.

Can you clarify the distinction you are making between "Republic" and our current form of government so that I can better address your points?

A pure democracy never works out because the people soon learn to vote whatever they want until the treasury is bankrupt.

I am not arguing for a "pure democracy" in which the people directly vote for how the treasury spends money.

Let us hope that Trump and Musk can get around this. And yes, if a Democrat unilaterally and genuinely attempted to limit our present bloated and burdensome over taxing regulating government I would support them too. But so far, Soros has shown no such desire. He is just an influencing billionaire the same as the rest with different ideology. In wolfs clothing but trying to look like a sheep.

If I grant for the sake of argument that the government being large is in itself bad (that discussion would be a massive derail from this current discussion) and if we assume that making the government smaller is a Republican Party priority, then I ask the following question:

would you support the government, of which the Republicans currently holds both houses of Congress and the Presidency, making changes to government spending through Congressional action, i.e., legislation? Shouldn't that be the way this country operates? That's how the founders wrote the Constitution. You seem to not want that. If making the government smaller is actually a Republican priority why are they not legislating that? Why is the Republican-led Congress letting the Republican-led Executive Branch run roughshod over their Constitutionally-granted authority? You seem to think the government should be exactly the way the founders desired, and it is clear in the Constitution how that should be. Despite your claim that you desire to live in a Republic as the founders wanted, your words do not support that idea.

 

[ZiprHead]

Whether you like Musk or not, you have to at least admit Musk is right about the size of our over grown federal government. Government never gets smaller.

Why do you feel it is too big? What makes you think that, besides the right-wing radio/TV jockeys you follow telling to.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Whether you like Musk or not, you have to at least admit Musk is right about the size of our over grown federal government. Government never gets smaller.

Why do you feel it is too big? What makes you think that, besides the right-wing radio/TV jockeys you follow telling to.

One would think that if it were a priority for the Republicans to make government smaller they would have done that in the multiple times that they had the opportunity to do so, including during Trump's first term.

I guess if it can't be done through legal, Constitutional means, RVonse is ok with it happening through illegal, unconstitutional methods because the results happen to agree with his personal views.

 

[KCFlyer]

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

The answer to that is an unequivocal No. Indeed there would be a call for all patriots to take up arms and save us from this affront to our country, They would do that even if it WASN'T a foreign drug addict.

 

[KCFlyer]

I want to live in a Republic which unlike a democracy our founders thought we might actually survive.

Here's a good example of the difference....In a democracy, a vote is put to the people for something like, say, abortion. And they vote overwhelmingly to keep it legal. A Representative Republic is one where someone winning an office with something like 48.9% of the vote can come in and introduce an abortion ban because they "represent my district".

 

[KCFlyer]

Why do you feel it is too big? What makes you think that, besides the right-wing radio/TV jockeys you follow telling to.

We could easily reduce it by more than 535 people if we just abolish Congress.....just look at how much Trump has accomplished without congress having to lift a finger.

 

[jonatha]

When in your lifetime (other than right now) has the federal government ever gotten smaller?

1990-2000, for one...

 

[Copernicus]

...I'm not necessarily 100% in the MAGA camp but I can at least see some benefit to the reduction of the federal government. It is painful today but may give this country life tomorrow so that we can compete with China again.

Everyone would like to see parts of the government that they don't like disappear and keep the parts that they do like. MAGAs want to keep the parts that impose their ideals on those who don't share them and defund projects that they feel they get no benefit from. Most aren't looking to reduce the Pentagon budget, and that is why Musk is trying to make deep cuts in social programs and almost none in the bloated military budget. He'll fire humanitarian aid workers but keep the huge budgets that fund the industries making himself wealthy. You are deluding yourself to think that they are really going to shrink the government. That is just a pretense to get rid of the parts that conservatives have long wanted to get rid of but could not convince others to agree to--primarily all of the social programs that have been put into place by Democrats since the FDR administration. It is not going over well with the public, but there is little anyone seems to be able to do about it in the short term. Trump and his gang of plutocrats are pulling off a coup in broad daylight.

 

[Axulus]

Our government is far too big and Musk is fixing it. This is just common sense that the Democrats (and some Rino's) do not currently have. Everything he is doing is advisory and legal.

so you are happy to no longer have a democracy then? A dictatorship that “fixes” the government more to your liking is ok?

If the dictator were a Democrat and he unilaterally did things you don’t like would that be ok, because he’d be “fixing” the government to be more like the other 50% of the country like?

Either you like democracy as messy and inefficient as it is or you don’t. It sounds like you do not want to live in a democracy.

I want to live in a Republic which unlike a democracy our founders thought we might actually survive.

A pure democracy never works out because the people soon learn to vote whatever they want until the treasury is bankrupt. Most people, when they find themselves in the downward swing of the generational cycle, become complacent and apathetic. Otherwise intelligent, educated people vainly hope for a Freedom Fairy who will appear on the scene and reverse the process (but will continue voting for politicians giving out the free stuff).

Historically, democracies have never returned to republics again. No country reverses the cycle. Historically the countries who find themselves in pure democracy must die in some kind of authoritative rule before renewal can occur.

Let us hope that Trump and Musk can get around this. And yes, if a Democrat unilaterally and genuinely attempted to limit our present bloated and burdensome over taxing regulating government I would support them too. But so far, Soros has shown no such desire. He is just an influencing billionaire the same as the rest with different ideology. In wolfs clothing but trying to look like a sheep.

How is the executive illegally overriding laws passed by congress consistent with your idea of a republic? Or are you saying we need to live in a Russian type state? Is that the "renewal" you dream of?

Russian government spends 36.5% of gdp. US government spends 23.4%. Is that your idea of small government?

 

[RVonse]

...I'm not necessarily 100% in the MAGA camp but I can at least see some benefit to the reduction of the federal government. It is painful today but may give this country life tomorrow so that we can compete with China again.

Everyone would like to see parts of the government that they don't like disappear and keep the parts that they do like. MAGAs want to keep the parts that impose their ideals on those who don't share them and defund projects that they feel they get no benefit from. Most aren't looking to reduce the Pentagon budget, and that is why Musk is trying to make deep cuts in social programs and almost none in the bloated military budget. He'll fire humanitarian aid workers but keep the huge budgets that fund the industries making himself wealthy. You are deluding yourself to think that they are really going to shrink the government. That is just a pretense to get rid of the parts that conservatives have long wanted to get rid of but could not convince others to agree to--primarily all of the social programs that have been put into place by Democrats since the FDR administration. It is not going over well with the public, but there is little anyone seems to be able to do about it in the short term. Trump and his gang of plutocrats are pulling off a coup in broad daylight.

I would be happy if they made large cuts to the military and closed down the useless bases too. And you are correct about pet projects for special interests....on either side But if people want something for nothing (say Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnel) at least those kind of projects should be paid for by their own local or state governments so that the people nearest to the project are the same people who benefit from that project. We should be able to agree that the federal government should not be in the business for senator pet projects no matter who wants them. I pledge that when the Democrats get in next time they can and should get rid of all the Republican pet projects in next election cycle. And I for one will have no problem with that whatsoever even if George Soros does it.

Let the federal government get smaller so that it can be solvent and still carry out federal programs that are not pet projects. Let the federal government get smaller so that the middle class (not just the uber wealthy) can pay less federal tax. I want less from the federal government and to pay less too.

You should not be objecting to Musk getting rid of a charity pet program that gives away money to the rest of the world. A program that does not even directly benefit our own country. The federal government is nearly bankrupt and not in a position for a charity pet program right now. Let Bill Gates keep it going for now since he is able to afford it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You should not be objecting to Musk getting rid of a charity pet program that gives away money to the rest of the world.

I object to it if he does through extralegal means.

If he makes a recommendation to Congress to reform or cut it they can write that into their next budget bill.

Do you not understand the issue here?

 

[Shadowy Man]

I pledge that when the Democrats get in next time they can and should get rid of all the Republican pet projects in next election cycle. And I for one will have no problem with that whatsoever even if George Soros does it.

so, despite what you said earlier you do not actually want to live in the republic the founders created. You want to live in a dictatorship where the leader makes changes that conform to your desires.

 

[KCFlyer]

You should not be objecting to Musk getting rid of a charity pet program that gives away money to the rest of the world. That does not even directly benefit our own country. The federal government is nearly bankrupt and not in a position for a charity pet program right now. Let Bill Gates keep it going for now since he is able to afford it.

I would rather have someone who buys a business not drive it into the ground. He bought Twitter. He fired staff. He bought Twitter and it was valued at $19 billion. Today it is valued at $673 million. And that was an "investment" for him. Sorry, I'd rather have a clear headed person dealing with my government. Heck...Trump blamed a plane crash on controllers with severe mental and psychological issues. Elon Musk takes a daily (or more) dose of Ketamine, yet even under DEI, a person on Ritalin will not be hired. IF a controller pees in a cup and tests positive for weed - they are terminated. Musk smokes it often. He is on the autism spectrum. And he has control of ALL of the government, when he wouldn't be qualified to be hired as an air traffic controller today. How about we put someone in that job who could qualify TODAY to be hired as an air traffic controller in that job. Musk wouldn't qualify.

 

[Politesse]

How is taxation without representation supposed to make us more "free"? If you think the Department of Agriculture should be obliterated, fine. Put a bill before the House to do that. But they won't, because they know the American public does not want what they do. So they are doing by illegal means what could not be accomplished democratically. No one is offering to tax you less, only to give you less of a say in how your tax dollars are used. If you are afraid that your tax dollars could be used to enslave you, having their distribution be subject to the sole review and oversight of five very wealthy men from the same social circle, instead of 535 angry legislators from many and various places and backgrounds, should terrify you.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If you are afraid that your tax dollars could be used to enslave you, having their distribution be subject to the sole review and oversight of five very wealthy men ftom the same social circle, instead of 535 angry legislators from many and various places and backgrounds, should terrify you.

You forget that every American believes that one day he may become a billionaire too, so if we reign in the billionaires with law, what will he be left with when he also becomes a billionaire?