• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

How a broomstick-swinging, mentally ill man ended up shot dead by police

ksen

Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
6,540
Location
Florida
Basic Beliefs
Calvinist
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article10490474.html

Only a week out of a mental health facility, Lavall Hall, 25, needed help — again. But the next few moments of interaction with Miami Gardens police officers proved fatal for Hall, who witnesses said lay face down and handcuffed near the middle of Northwest Second Court after being shot by police.

Daniels said she told police repeatedly that her son was schizophrenic and bipolar and took medication, and that he needed to go back to the hospital for help.

“If I had known they were going to kill my child, I never would have called them,” Daniels said Monday, still emotionally charged from her son’s death the day before. “I’m not going to rest until I get some justice.”

This is obviously a get rich quick scheme cooked up by a welfare queen mother who had no problem sacrificing her son in order to get a payday from the city.
 
Sounds like he never should have left the hospital. Too bad our nation doesn't take mental health illnesses seriously.

Based on the article, they shot him to keep him from fleeing?
 
Sounds like he never should have left the hospital. Too bad our nation doesn't take mental health illnesses seriously.

Based on the article, they shot him to keep him from fleeing?

Too bad our nation doesn't take anything but money seriously.:(
 
One swing of a broomstick could be lethal, so, of course the proper procedure is to gun him down.
 
Or are they being reported more now?

It's a matter of more reporting. In the days of three television news networks and local newspapers, something had to be especially lurid to get national attention. Even then, it was forgotten in a few days. Today, we can inform the world in a matter of hours and a million people will keep the ball in the air. This applies to the truth and to the totally bogus.

There is not a day goes by without someone on facebook finding a year old news story and reposts as if it were yesterday. At least twice a day, the original source is the Onion.
 
Sounds like he never should have left the hospital. Too bad our nation doesn't take mental health illnesses seriously.

Yeah. It's pretty clear this guy shouldn't have been let out in the first place. What might have happened is that he was ok when he was on his meds but such patients tend to not like what the meds do to their brain and go off them--and then they're nutso again.

Based on the article, they shot him to keep him from fleeing?

He was attacking people. The cops were protecting the next person he encountered.
 
He was attacking people. The cops were protecting the next person he encountered.
From the reports I have seen, the only people he attacked were the police when they confronted him. Do you have a link to reports to the contrary or is this just another example of an ex post assumption?
 
Why would his mother call the police and not the mental health facility? Was he behaving in a criminal manner? Otherwise...wtf does it have to do with the police? If you call the police because someone with mental health problems is committing a crime of violence ("if"...I haven't heard the police call), then they are going to come prepared for the worst. IF she told police he was beating people with a broomstick handle (which apparently had a metal tip), then they are going in to that scene knowing they are probably going to get in to a physical altercation.

What exactly are the police supposed to do to a madman that's beating the shit out of them with a dangerous weapon? Tase him? Allegedly they did and it had no effect on him whatsoever. He allegedly smashed one of the officers over the head with the weapon.

Were they supposed to give him his med's, mental health therapy and hope his arms got tired from pummeling them?

If some fucking nut was running around smashing people over the head with a broomstick with a metal end on it, I'd probably call the cops and tell them they need to get their asses over to my neighborhood and shoot a crazy motherfucker.

There are all sorts of twisted shameful incidents of police abusing their powers to the point of murder, but this could be something very different. This isn't a kid walking away getting gunned down...this is literally a violent madman, and somehow the police are supposed to magically deal with it in a pacifistic way.
 
She said Miami Gardens police should have known who they were dealing with because the department helped place him in the mental ward of a nearby hospital only last week. Johnson mentioned at the press conference that police were called to the family’s home some time in the past three years because Hall had lit his clothes on fire and was threatening his mother with a knife.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...mi-gardens/article10565054.html#storylink=cpy

Yeah...they did know who they were dealing with...a violent crazy mother fucker, and this time he attacked them.

Daniels said she went to bed at about 11 p.m. Saturday night while her son was playing a Madden video football game on the television in the living room. She had just fed him fried pork chops for dinner. Daniels and police agree that she called 911 at 5 a.m. Sunday saying she had found her son outside and became frightened when he turned toward her with a broomstick in his hands.

Daniels said she locked herself inside the home and called police. Johnson described the call as “frantic.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...mi-gardens/article10565054.html#storylink=cpy

This is some real bullshit...she called police flipping out about her crazy ass son, frantic and told them she was scared because the crazy fucker was outside with his weapon and turned towards her! She had to lock his crazy fucking ass out of the house. Sure...lock him out with the general public...too scared to go near him but the police...why did they have to go shoot him?

Cops are fucked no matter what they do. Now there's a huge social media frenzy...this crazy fucker is going to be the new Trayvon. Only Trayvon wasn't doing anything when a sociopath killed him. The only thing the two stories have in common is that they are both tragic. This young man should have been locked up receiving medical attention because he was too fucking dangerous to be in the general public.
 
This definitely is different. She called the cops because they respond quicker (at all). Of course, the cops aren't trained to deal with sort of thing, so it went south. Tragic, though it seems this has many other failings involved. Certain this woman couldn't afford the care her son needed.
 
He was attacking people. The cops were protecting the next person he encountered.
From the reports I have seen, the only people he attacked were the police when they confronted him. Do you have a link to reports to the contrary or is this just another example of an ex post assumption?

Wasn't he also throwing rocks at cars?

- - - Updated - - -

Why would his mother call the police and not the mental health facility? Was he behaving in a criminal manner? Otherwise...wtf does it have to do with the police? If you call the police because someone with mental health problems is committing a crime of violence ("if"...I haven't heard the police call), then they are going to come prepared for the worst. IF she told police he was beating people with a broomstick handle (which apparently had a metal tip), then they are going in to that scene knowing they are probably going to get in to a physical altercation.

What exactly are the police supposed to do to a madman that's beating the shit out of them with a dangerous weapon? Tase him? Allegedly they did and it had no effect on him whatsoever. He allegedly smashed one of the officers over the head with the weapon.

Were they supposed to give him his med's, mental health therapy and hope his arms got tired from pummeling them?

If some fucking nut was running around smashing people over the head with a broomstick with a metal end on it, I'd probably call the cops and tell them they need to get their asses over to my neighborhood and shoot a crazy motherfucker.

There are all sorts of twisted shameful incidents of police abusing their powers to the point of murder, but this could be something very different. This isn't a kid walking away getting gunned down...this is literally a violent madman, and somehow the police are supposed to magically deal with it in a pacifistic way.

Yeah. People call the cops when one of these psych cases turn violent and then feel that by some miraculous means the cops are going to be able to make everything right.
 
He was attacking people. The cops were protecting the next person he encountered.

He didnt attack any people (just the officers). And he was using a broomstick. Not really an imminent threat. Tazing him is a totally fine proportional response - maybe even a good whack with a baton on the leg is in order, if you and your police buddy can't wrestle him, but not shooting.
 
He was attacking people. The cops were protecting the next person he encountered.

He didnt attack any people (just the officers). And he was using a broomstick. Not really an imminent threat. Tazing him is a totally fine proportional response - maybe even a good whack with a baton on the leg is in order, if you and your police buddy can't wrestle him, but not shooting.

His mother had to lock him out of their house because she was in fear for her safety. She knows him and how dangerous he is a lot better than you do. He did after all, light himself on fucking fire and then come at her threatening with a knife in the past. He gave one of these officers a wound bad enough to require stitches.

What exactly do you think the word imminent means? :rolleyesa:

They did taze him. Twice. And he was so enraged and fucking crazy, it did nothing. Not just officers, witnesses saw them try to taze him and he apparently continued assaulting officers.

BTW - It's interesting that some people seem to think if a lunatic pulls out a club...then a police officer is inclined to fight them in a duel with an equal weapon. "What's that a broken broom handle? Let me see if I have anything comparable so we can have a fair battle good man". FFS...they aren't there to see whether they can out club him. They were there because his mother thought he was dangerous enough that she locked him out of the fucking house. Which means he was out on the streets with unsuspecting civilians, looking for someone to fuck up with his weapon. In a case with a lunatic this enraged, where they can't even be taken down by multiple taze attempts, they must be taken down and the threat must be stopped. Why the hell his mom didn't call the mental health facility he just got out of beats the hell out of me...they would have called the police and probably both arrived on scene. But his mom didn't, she called the police freaking out because she thought he was that fucking dangerous.
 
From the reports I have seen, the only people he attacked were the police when they confronted him. Do you have a link to reports to the contrary or is this just another example of an ex post assumption?

Wasn't he also throwing rocks at cars?
I have not seen any reports that he was doing anything else. Unless you do have a link to a report, please stop confusing your assumptions with reality.
 
He didnt attack any people (just the officers). And he was using a broomstick. Not really an imminent threat. Tazing him is a totally fine proportional response - maybe even a good whack with a baton on the leg is in order, if you and your police buddy can't wrestle him, but not shooting.

His mother had to lock him out of their house because she was in fear for her safety. She knows him and how dangerous he is a lot better than you do. He did after all, light himself on fucking fire and then come at her threatening with a knife in the past. He gave one of these officers a wound bad enough to require stitches.

What exactly do you think the word imminent means? :rolleyesa:

They did taze him. Twice. And he was so enraged and fucking crazy, it did nothing. Not just officers, witnesses saw them try to taze him and he apparently continued assaulting officers.

BTW - It's interesting that some people seem to think if a lunatic pulls out a club...then a police officer is inclined to fight them in a duel with an equal weapon. "What's that a broken broom handle? Let me see if I have anything comparable so we can have a fair battle good man". FFS...they aren't there to see whether they can out club him. They were there because his mother thought he was dangerous enough that she locked him out of the fucking house. Which means he was out on the streets with unsuspecting civilians, looking for someone to fuck up with his weapon. In a case with a lunatic this enraged, where they can't even be taken down by multiple taze attempts, they must be taken down and the threat must be stopped. Why the hell his mom didn't call the mental health facility he just got out of beats the hell out of me...they would have called the police and probably both arrived on scene. But his mom didn't, she called the police freaking out because she thought he was that fucking dangerous.
You are substituting your judgment for reality. She may have called the police because she wasn't thinking. She may have called the police because she thought the mental facility wouldn't come. We literally don't know.

My parents lived through a similar situation with my brother about 40 years ago. He was physically abusive and dangerous when he was high. A number of times they locked him out and called the police. A couple of times he had a substantial stick in his hands. Police did not have tasers back then (at least these police didn't). They managed to subdue him without shooting him. My parents live in a residential neighborhood.

Why the difference in outcomes? There are probably many factors. IMO, people back then were far less likely to project the worst possible outcome with the smallest probability as reality. And, the police were less militarized back then. And, of course, it probably helped that my brother is white.
 
His mother had to lock him out of their house because she was in fear for her safety. She knows him and how dangerous he is a lot better than you do. He did after all, light himself on fucking fire and then come at her threatening with a knife in the past. He gave one of these officers a wound bad enough to require stitches.

What exactly do you think the word imminent means? :rolleyesa:

They did taze him. Twice. And he was so enraged and fucking crazy, it did nothing. Not just officers, witnesses saw them try to taze him and he apparently continued assaulting officers.

BTW - It's interesting that some people seem to think if a lunatic pulls out a club...then a police officer is inclined to fight them in a duel with an equal weapon. "What's that a broken broom handle? Let me see if I have anything comparable so we can have a fair battle good man". FFS...they aren't there to see whether they can out club him. They were there because his mother thought he was dangerous enough that she locked him out of the fucking house. Which means he was out on the streets with unsuspecting civilians, looking for someone to fuck up with his weapon. In a case with a lunatic this enraged, where they can't even be taken down by multiple taze attempts, they must be taken down and the threat must be stopped. Why the hell his mom didn't call the mental health facility he just got out of beats the hell out of me...they would have called the police and probably both arrived on scene. But his mom didn't, she called the police freaking out because she thought he was that fucking dangerous.
You are substituting your judgment for reality. She may have called the police because she wasn't thinking. She may have called the police because she thought the mental facility wouldn't come. We literally don't know.
I think it is reasonable to suggest that the Police respond quicker and he was a threat.

My parents lived through a similar situation with my brother about 40 years ago. He was physically abusive and dangerous when he was high. A number of times they locked him out and called the police. A couple of times he had a substantial stick in his hands. Police did not have tasers back then (at least these police didn't). They managed to subdue him without shooting him. My parents live in a residential neighborhood.
Well, that was back before guns existed or something and cops had no other option than to try and take someone alive. Now that there are guns, officers can protect themselves better and save the community in court fees.

Why the difference in outcomes? There are probably many factors. IMO, people back then were far less likely to project the worst possible outcome with the smallest probability as reality. And, the police were less militarized back then. And, of course, it probably helped that my brother is white.
He isn't mentally ill, he is just a gangsta!

At best I can tell from these incidents, some officers run out of ideas pretty quickly before resorting to a gun.
 
His mother had to lock him out of their house because she was in fear for her safety. She knows him and how dangerous he is a lot better than you do. He did after all, light himself on fucking fire and then come at her threatening with a knife in the past. He gave one of these officers a wound bad enough to require stitches.

What exactly do you think the word imminent means? :rolleyesa:

They did taze him. Twice. And he was so enraged and fucking crazy, it did nothing. Not just officers, witnesses saw them try to taze him and he apparently continued assaulting officers.

BTW - It's interesting that some people seem to think if a lunatic pulls out a club...then a police officer is inclined to fight them in a duel with an equal weapon. "What's that a broken broom handle? Let me see if I have anything comparable so we can have a fair battle good man". FFS...they aren't there to see whether they can out club him. They were there because his mother thought he was dangerous enough that she locked him out of the fucking house. Which means he was out on the streets with unsuspecting civilians, looking for someone to fuck up with his weapon. In a case with a lunatic this enraged, where they can't even be taken down by multiple taze attempts, they must be taken down and the threat must be stopped. Why the hell his mom didn't call the mental health facility he just got out of beats the hell out of me...they would have called the police and probably both arrived on scene. But his mom didn't, she called the police freaking out because she thought he was that fucking dangerous.
You are substituting your judgment for reality. She may have called the police because she wasn't thinking. She may have called the police because she thought the mental facility wouldn't come. We literally don't know.

My parents lived through a similar situation with my brother about 40 years ago. He was physically abusive and dangerous when he was high. A number of times they locked him out and called the police. A couple of times he had a substantial stick in his hands. Police did not have tasers back then (at least these police didn't). They managed to subdue him without shooting him. My parents live in a residential neighborhood.

Why the difference in outcomes? There are probably many factors. IMO, people back then were far less likely to project the worst possible outcome with the smallest probability as reality. And, the police were less militarized back then. And, of course, it probably helped that my brother is white.

I'm "substituting (my) judgement for reality"? Really? From the person that ended their post with "it probably helped that my brother is white". Nothing in this incident so far indicates race had anything to do with what happened,the race of the madman. But the truth is, it's had a whole hell of a lot to do with the "social media frenzy" of craven idiots. I described this case to my wife this morning on the way to work without saying where it happened, afterwards I filled in the other details. She said (and I agree), if that had happened up here in Canada...and that madman was white, he would have been just as dead.

As for your personal story about your brother, I'm glad he wasn't killed. But if he'd been willfully high as a kite, knowing fully well that he's violent and physically abusive when he's high, and then he went about threatening people and beating the police with a weapon...he might just have to be shot dead.

What is this soapboxing about police being militarized? He was shot with a pistol, not a bazooka.
 
Back
Top Bottom