Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[marc]

Israel was remarkably good at avoiding unnecessary casualties.

Is this mindless repeating of Israel propaganda? Israel has been using 2,000 lb bombs, which the US didn't use in Iraq because they were too much of a danger to civilian population. They are using unguided munitions.

Yea, I heard that claim of a 'low' civilian death count, lower than any war in history!!!!... except if you look at the numbers they were claiming, the initial attack by Hamas targeted mainly people in the military, and had a lower civilian death count than what Israel was proudly claiming.

 

[Elixir]

There's no genocide going on.

 

[laughing dog]

The IDF defense kills thousands upon thousands of noncombatants and destroys homes and other infrastructure.

Sorry, no I am not buying your terrorist apologetics.

There is nothing to buy nor apologetics. Those noncombatants did not commit suicide. They were killed by Israeli bombs and bullets. The infrastructure did not spontaneously explode. It took Israeli bombs to destroy the infrastructure.

The uncomfortable reality is that Israeli actions killed those noncombatants and destroyed that infrastructure. That is true whether one thinks the response was justified or not. In fact, you admit below

Gazans launched an attack against Israel. They used Gazans as human shields. Lots of those people died because Gazans used them.
Israel was remarkably good at avoiding unnecessary casualties. But since the GWM thrive on Palestinians deaths there were some.
Tom

The minimization of the deaths of 1000s of Palestinian noncombatants by the word "some" is monumental apologia.

If GWM thrive on the deaths of Palestinian noncombatants, why is it good policy to help GWM thrive by endulging them so well?

 

[bilby]

Their choices are fight, thus causing major Palestinian casualties (but not genocide no matter how often Hamas leads you into chanting it) or to die. There is no middle ground no matter how much the leftist faith says there is.

Never mind "leftist faith", recent history says that these are not the only options.

Damn that leftist history, coming here disagreeing with our simplistic demands for violence.

Perhaps we need to kill history too, to stop it from contradicting the propaganda line we need to take in order to justify killing thousands of people (which is technically not genocide, and therefore perfectly OK).

 

[bilby]

The situation did not grow organically, from day 1 the Muslims have been providing the sparks and fanning the fire.

Which day was "Day 1"?

Do you imagine that there's a single date, agreed upon by all, on which the conflict began?

 

[TomC]

There's no genocide going on.

View attachment 49540

Yay!
A dictionary definition demonstrating that accusations of genocide made against Israel are bullshit strawman arguments.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

There's no genocide going on.

View attachment 49540

Yay!
A dictionary definition demonstrating that accusations of genocide made against Israel are bullshit strawman arguments.
Tom

I won't even ask for the contortion of truth that infers that at all.
Retributive genocide is still genocide.

 

[TomC]

recent history says that these are not the only options.

But nobody can ever describe an option that doesn't start with, "get rid of violent Muslim terrorists", without explaining anything about how to accomplish that goal.
Tom

 

[TomC]

There's no genocide going on.

View attachment 49540

Yay!
A dictionary definition demonstrating that accusations of genocide made against Israel are bullshit strawman arguments.
Tom

I won't even ask for the contortion of truth that infers that at all.
Retributive genocide is still genocide.

You keep saying "genocide".
But even your dictionary definition doesn't agree.

Gazans are in no danger of anything resembling genocide. If they keep attacking their neighbors they will have a lot of trouble.

They could stop. Why don't you think they are capable of that?
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

Perhaps this would have been better:

The only way any of this works is to look at this incident in a vacuum, that this hatred for Israel and the US grew organically.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

The situation did not grow organically, from day 1 the Muslims have been providing the sparks and fanning the fire. The "trigger" was the very creation of Israel--they were attacked before they had done anything but declare their existence. It wasn't that anybody was hurt, it was the existence of a Jewish land in areas they considered long conquered was a horrendous offense to Islam.

We've covered all this in the larger thread. My position is the US had no business establishing the state of Israel in 1948. It was not for us to do. It was a consolation for the Holocaust.
As far as who might be the more aggrieved party, again I'll stand on my twice written claim that the majority of the civilized world in the UN seem to agree with my position, not yours as they routinely stand against the US and Israel.

Actually 164 of the 192 members of the UN recognized Israel as a sovereign country on May 11, 1949.

 

[TomC]

The situation did not grow organically, from day 1 the Muslims have been providing the sparks and fanning the fire.

Which day was "Day 1"?

Do you imagine that there's a single date, agreed upon by all, on which the conflict began?

This particular conflict?
Yeah, Day 1 is extremely obvious.

Unless you are trying desperately to make Israel responsible for the choices GWM made up to and including the huge missile barrage and murder spree and kidnappings.
Kidnapping spree that continues to this day, nearly a year and a half!
Bullshit.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Kidnapping spree that continues to this day

Who got kidnapped yesterday? Today? Where can I go to be kept up on these things?

 

[TomC]

Kidnapping spree that continues to this day

Who got kidnapped yesterday? Today? Where can I go to be kept up on these things?

Which kidnapping victims are you talking about?
I'm talking about the ones Gazans kidnapped almost a year and a half ago. The ones that they killed, or continue to hold.

Those kidnapping victims. The innocent civilians that don't matter to the terrorist apologetists.

Why don't you understand that kidnapping someone, and refusing to release them, is a crime that is ongoing?
Tom

 

[Elixir]

I'm talking about the ones Gazans kidnapped almost a year and a half ago.

T

Kidnapping spree that continues to this day

Who got kidnapped yesterday? Today? Where can I go to be kept up on these things?

I'm talking about the ones Gazans kidnapped almost a year and a half ago.

That is not a kidnapping happening today. It's not a "Kidnapping spree that continues to this day."
You're talking about victims of kidnappings that occurred almost a year and a half ago and are still being held by or have already been killed by the kidnappers. The "spree" ended almost as fast as it began. The aftermath continues, with retributive genocide and ongoing deaths of the kidnapped, part and parcel of the response.
Another misrepresentation duly noted. Oh well, at least Bibi still has his job and isn't in jail. Because that's why this is still going on.

 

[Derec]

Kidnapping spree that continues to this day

Who got kidnapped yesterday? Today? Where can I go to be kept up on these things?

The kidnapping spree is ongoing as long as there are kidnapping victims held hostage by the GWM.

 

[ZiprHead]

GWM

Gay White Male?

Guy With Money?

Gram-Molecular Weight?

Grand Mexican Warlock?

 

[TomC]

GWM

Gay White Male?

Guy With Money?

Gram-Molecular Weight?

Grand Mexican Warlock?

Gazans Who Matter
Tom

 

[Derec]

Is this mindless repeating of Israel propaganda? Israel has been using 2,000 lb bombs, which the US didn't use in Iraq because they were too much of a danger to civilian population.

[citation needed]

They are using unguided munitions.

Not true. Israel uses JDAM.

Yea, I heard that claim of a 'low' civilian death count, lower than any war in history!!!!... except if you look at the numbers they were claiming, the initial attack by Hamas targeted mainly people in the military, and had a lower civilian death count than what Israel was proudly claiming.

They attacked young people at a concert. They attacked families in the kibbutzim. Do not be misled by Hamas propaganda!

Soldiers?

 

[Derec]

There is nothing to buy nor apologetics. Those noncombatants did not commit suicide. They were killed by Israeli bombs and bullets.

Some were killed by Palestinian rockets that fell short. Even after the so-called ceasefire.
Faulty terrorist rocket said to kill Palestinian child in central Gaza

The infrastructure did not spontaneously explode. It took Israeli bombs to destroy the infrastructure.

Since many IAF strikes triggered secondary explosions, a lot of infrastructure was destroyed because GWM like to store their explosives inside civilian infrastructure.

If GWM thrive on the deaths of Palestinian noncombatants, why is it good policy to help GWM thrive by endulging them so well?

You mean "indulging"?
And what is the alternative? Not try to target Hamas forces, leadership and infrastructure (such as tunnels and weapons stores)? By those standards, no warfare is possible. Might as well have given up during WWII because GWM (Germans Who Mattered) did not care about civilian casualties in Berlin and Dresden.

 

[laughing dog]

There is nothing to buy nor apologetics. Those noncombatants did not commit suicide. They were killed by Israeli bombs and bullets.

Some were killed by Palestinian rockets that fell short. Even after the so-called ceasefire.
Faulty terrorist rocket said to kill Palestinian child in central Gaza

Thanks for setting the record straight. That changes everything.

The infrastructure did not spontaneously explode. It took Israeli bombs to destroy the infrastructure.

Since many IAF strikes triggered secondary explosions, a lot of infrastructure was destroyed because GWM like to store their explosives inside civilian infrastructure.

Without the bomb, there'd be no explosion. Nice try.

If GWM thrive on the deaths of Palestinian noncombatants, why is it good policy to help GWM thrive by endulging them so well?

You mean "indulging"?
And what is the alternative? Not try to target Hamas forces, leadership and infrastructure (such as tunnels and weapons stores)? By those standards, no warfare is possible. Might as well have given up during WWII because GWM (Germans Who Mattered) did not care about civilian casualties in Berlin and Dresden.

The alternative is to not engage in such massive destruction and death. Duh.