Well... it's Trump... again. #47, here we go.

[Loren Pechtel]

most of the jobs never left in the first place. Far more went to automation than ever went overseas.

You keep repeating this. Do you have any numbers to back this absurd statement up?

“Over the long haul, clearly automation’s been much more important — it’s not even close,” said Lawrence Katz, an economics professor at Harvard who studies labor and technological change.

...

Globalization is clearly responsible for some of the job losses, particularly trade with China during the 2000s, which led to the rapid loss of 2 million to 2.4 million net jobs, according to research by economists including Daron Acemoglu and David Autor of M.I.T.

People who work in parts of the country most affected by imports generally have greater unemployment and reduced income for the rest of their lives, Mr. Autor found in a paper published in January. Still, over time, automation has had a far bigger effect than globalization, and would have eventually eliminated those jobs anyway, he said in an interview. “Some of it is globalization, but a lot of it is we require many fewer workers to do the same amount of work,” he said. “Workers are basically supervisors of machines.”

...

Take the steel industry. It lost 400,000 people, 75 percent of its work force, between 1962 and 2005. But its shipments did not decline, according to a study published in the American Economic Review last year. The reason was a new technology called the minimill. Its effect remained strong even after controlling for management practices; job losses in the Midwest; international trade; and unionization rates, found the authors of the study, Allan Collard-Wexler of Duke and Jan De Loecker of Princeton.

Another analysis, from Ball State University, attributed roughly 13 percent of manufacturing job losses to trade and the rest to enhanced productivity because of automation. Apparel making was hit hardest by trade, it said, and computer and electronics manufacturing was hit hardest by technological advances.

The Long-Term Jobs Killer Is Not China. It’s Automation. (Published 2016)

“Everything we did, you could program a robot to do it.”

www.nytimes.com

What happens when China automates? Will the jobs running the machines then be offshored again to China?

It's happening, and China's going to be in a world of hurt. They're already hurting because they based their economy on continued rapid growth that inevitably would falter as they approached Western levels.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

President Trump eliminates two key food safety committees

The Trump Administration has eliminated two USDA food safety advisory committees that have been in place for decades. The U.S. Department of Agriculture

www.foodsafetynews.com

Who cares about egg prices anymore if the eggs are bad?

Surely egg producers wouldn’t want to make their customers sick. How is that good for capitalism? Why would we trust some unelected government employee to care more about about us than the ones who want our business?!?!1.

And in the meantime, Kennedy goes stupid

Kennedy and influencers bash seed oils, baffling nutrition scientists

Seed oils have been the focus of fiery critics from internet influencers to high-profile politicians like HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

apnews.com

While I think the threat of animal fat is way overstated I don't understand what he's bashing here. Trying to meet the RDAs for omega-3 and omega-6 from animal sources appears to be pretty hard. I admit I haven't tried the math with the fruit oils.

 

[Elixir]

The guy himself is a vividly disgusting picture of human ill health.
WTF.
Anyone buying what he’s selling deserves what they get. Tragic.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

President Trump eliminates two key food safety committees

The Trump Administration has eliminated two USDA food safety advisory committees that have been in place for decades. The U.S. Department of Agriculture

www.foodsafetynews.com

Who cares about egg prices anymore if the eggs are bad?

Correction, probably a lot of Americans (mainly MAGAtards) would be stupid enough to believe eating rotten eggs has health benefits, or they'll believe you're not "tough" if you don't eat rotten eggs. Maybe it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Does he have dementia or does he just like to act like he has dementia?

Is he a Russian agent or does he just act like a Russian agent.

I think he's got a Russian agent somewhere near him. He's too incompetent for Moscow to want him as an agent.

 

[Elixir]

He's too incompetent for Moscow to want him as an agent.

Makes a GREAT asset though.
Just gotta keep reminding him what happens if he gets too far out of line. But giving him a long leash lets him wreck more stuff.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

most of the jobs never left in the first place. Far more went to automation than ever went overseas.

You keep repeating this. Do you have any numbers to back this absurd statement up?

Just look at the industries that didn't go offshore. Major reductions also.

Those reductions were slow and easier to anticipate and prepare for. As you yourself said, it did not cause huge layoffs. You just hired less. Unlike automation, offshoring was quick and decimating to many states, especially the rust belt, causing huge amounts of layoffs that doubled as ancillary businesses had to cut back too.

We didn't lay off because we were growing. But output went up about 4x employees. Which is consistent with the numbers he was giving--75% reduction.

And while I certainly don't have numbers I've been seeing the same process at work in China--the number of workers vs the space occupied has changed substantially.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's too incompetent for Moscow to want him as an agent.

Makes a GREAT asset though.
Just gotta keep reminding him what happens if he gets too far out of line. But giving him a long leash lets him wreck more stuff.

Same problem--he would slip up and admit it. That's why I think there's a handler rather than his being knowingly under control.

 

[Elixir]

Same problem--he would slip up and admit it.

True. And, same solution; say “so what?”
I think all that has happened repeatedly already.

 

[Derec]

It used to be a standard aspect of tax policy that a dollar would only be taxed once.

But different levels of government have their own taxes. I do not see how paying both state and federal income tax is somehow double taxation.

But over the decades the politicians have fudged this more and more to the point that you don't even realize why the SALT deduction exists.

It does not help that SALT deduction is not available to everyone, but only to those who do not take the standard deduction but instead itemize.

That makes SALT deductions a tax cut for the rich much more than a general reduction in tax rates (where cuts accrue more to the rich because they pay more federal income taxes, but every tax bracket gets some benefit).

 

[Shadowy Man]

It used to be a standard aspect of tax policy that a dollar would only be taxed once.

But different levels of government have their own taxes. I do not see how paying both state and federal income tax is somehow double taxation.

It’s “double” because the money being taxed is money you’re paying in taxes.

But over the decades the politicians have fudged this more and more to the point that you don't even realize why the SALT deduction exists.

It does not help that SALT deduction is not available to everyone, but only to those who do not take the standard deduction but instead itemize.

If you’re taking the standard deduction then you’ve already calculated that’s better for you than itemizing.

That makes SALT deductions a tax cut for the rich much more than a general reduction in tax rates (where cuts accrue more to the rich because they pay more federal income taxes, but every tax bracket gets some benefit).

And how are defining “rich”?

 

[crazyfingers]

Trump really wants to take Canada! Trump is insanely evil. Just watch NATO having to defend Canada from US aggression!

Would congress finally successfully impeach Trump if Trump invades Canada?

He (Trump) told Mr. Trudeau that he did not believe that the treaty that demarcates the border between the two countries was valid and that he wants to revise the boundary. He offered no further explanation.

The border treaty Mr. Trump referred to was established in 1908 and finalized the international boundary between Canada, then a British dominion, and the United States.

Mr. Trump also mentioned revisiting the sharing of lakes and rivers between the two nations, which is regulated by a number of treaties, a topic he’s expressed interest about in the past.

...

And the Financial Times has reported that there are discussions in the White House about removing Canada from a crucial intelligence alliance among five nations, attributing those to a senior Trump adviser.

...

Mr. Lutnick called Mr. LeBlanc after the leaders had spoken on Feb. 3, and issued a devastating message, according to several people familiar with the call: Mr. Trump, he said, had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon.

Mr. Trump was interested in doing just that, Mr. Lutnick said.

He wanted to eject Canada out of an intelligence-sharing group known as the Five Eyes that also includes Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

He wanted to tear up the Great Lakes agreements and conventions between the two nations that lay out how they share and manage Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie and Ontario.

And he is also reviewing military cooperation between the two countries, particularly the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

..

The only soothing of nerves has come from Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the four people familiar with the matter said. Mr. Rubio has refrained from delivering threats, and recently dismissed the idea that the United States was looking at scrapping military cooperation.

But Canada’s politicians across the spectrum, and Canadian society at large, are frayed and deeply concerned. Officials do not see the Trump administration’s threats as empty; they see a new normal when it comes to the United States.

Gifted link to the NYT Story

How Trump’s ‘51st State’ Canada Talk Came to Be Seen as Deadly Serious

President Trump, in an early February call, challenged the border treaty between the two countries and told Justin Trudeau he didn’t like their shared water agreements.

www.nytimes.com

 

[bilby]

Trudeau's reply in full: Are you fucking stupid, or what?

 

[Derec]

It’s “double” because the money being taxed is money you’re paying in taxes.

How is that different from other taxes raised by different levels of government?

If you’re taking the standard deduction then you’ve already calculated that’s better for you than itemizing.

If paying state and local taxes without a tax break on federal taxes is "double taxation", then you should not have to itemize to get that break.

And how are defining “rich”?

That's a thorny issue, but from that last chart I posted can be seen that you need to get to the >$500k in income to see more than half of taxpayers itemizing. And fewer than 10% of those making <$50k itemize. So SALT deductions are clearly a benefit concentrated among those more well-off, and more well-off they are, the more likely they are to benefit.

 

[laughing dog]

It’s “double” because the money being taxed is money you’re paying in taxes.

How is that different from other taxes raised by different levels of government?

If you’re taking the standard deduction then you’ve already calculated that’s better for you than itemizing.

If paying state and local taxes without a tax break on federal taxes is "double taxation", then you should not have to itemize to get that break.

Then how would the federal gov’t know one’s actual tax liability? Many filers either have no state and local taxes withheld or the wrong amount withheld.

 

[Derec]

Then how would the federal gov’t know one’s actual tax liability? Many filers either have no state and local taxes withheld or the wrong amount withheld.

I do not understand your objection. There are tax breaks one can take advantage of even if not itemizing. It would be the same form as now, but it would not require filers to forego the standard deduction, making it more favorable to filers with less than $500k income.

Or just acknowledge that states and federal government are separate sovereigns and that paying taxes to one should not affect taxes paid to the other.

 

[laughing dog]

Then how would the federal gov’t know one’s actual tax liability? Many filers either have no state and local taxes withheld or the wrong amount withheld.

I do not understand your objection. There are tax breaks one can take advantage of even if not itemizing. It would be the same form as now, but it would not require filers to forego the standard deduction, making it more favorable to filers with less than $500k income.

You are the one that wrote "If paying state and local taxes without a tax break on federal taxes is "double taxation", then you should not have to itemize to get that break", not me. I pointed out that itemizing gives the federal gov't a more accurate account of those taxes paid in that case.

Or just acknowledge that states and federal government are separate sovereigns and that paying taxes to one should not affect taxes paid to the other.

I realize the concept of fairness is idiosyncratic to everyone, but the idea that paying tax on money that is already been taxed grates on many people. What I find fascinating is that for most taxpayers, the dollars there are dollars that are taxed twice by the federal gov't - federal income taxes on wage income tax dollars collected by FICA. Yet there is nary a peep about that one.

 

[Derec]

You are the one that wrote "If paying state and local taxes without a tax break on federal taxes is "double taxation", then you should not have to itemize to get that break", not me. I pointed out that itemizing gives the federal gov't a more accurate account of those taxes paid in that case.

No, it does not. One could declare state and local taxes paid even if one did not itemize all deductions.
It may be renamed as "tax credit" rather than "tax deduction" but itemizing all deductions does not give government a more accurate account of state and local taxes paid. Filling out a schedule or form does.

I realize the concept of fairness is idiosyncratic to everyone, but the idea that paying tax on money that is already been taxed grates on many people.

But it's ubiquitous a across different levels of government. When you go to a grocery store, you pay the sales tax with money that has already been taxed.

What I find fascinating is that for most taxpayers, the dollars there are dollars that are taxed twice by the federal gov't - federal income taxes on wage income tax dollars collected by FICA. Yet there is nary a peep about that one.

Friends is a B tier sitcom in many ways, but I always liked this joke.

 

[laughing dog]

You are the one that wrote "If paying state and local taxes without a tax break on federal taxes is "double taxation", then you should not have to itemize to get that break", not me. I pointed out that itemizing gives the federal gov't a more accurate account of those taxes paid in that case.

No, it does not. One could declare state and local taxes paid even if one did not itemize all deductions.
It may be renamed as "tax credit" rather than "tax deduction" but itemizing all deductions does not give government a more accurate account of state and local taxes paid. Filling out a schedule or form does.

Which is what one does when itemizing.

 

[Derec]

Which is what one does when itemizing.

I already explained it to you. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

As it stands, SALT deduction remains a tax cut for the rich. It is only rank partisanship that has people on here defend it.